New Flasks on PTR

Sunchips · 07/14/07, 5:23 AM

Two new flasks were added on the PTR.

World of Raids :: Index

Flask of Pure Death - A shadow, fire, and frost spell damage flask

Flask of Blinding Light - An arcane, holy, and nature damage flask

I have yet to have success copying my character over. I'm just curious as to whether anyone knows the new mats or not, and if anyone knows if the latter flask will add to +healing as well.

surrender · 07/14/07, 5:26 AM

Really awesome new flasks.
It was pretty annoying to have all new flasks but no new caster flask.
If someone knows the materials to brew these, please let us know.

I guess the holy flask will add +healing.

Sunchips · 07/14/07, 5:33 AM

Yes, it would be fair to assume that it will. But one can never be too sure; it could easily be another of Blizzard's sour oversights.

Cesar2000 · 07/14/07, 5:48 AM

Originally Posted by surrender

Really awesome new flasks.
It was pretty annoying to have all new flasks but no new caster flask.
If someone knows the materials to brew these, please let us know.

I guess the holy flask will add +healing.

Its almost guaranteed it won't add +healing, just like +nature damage on any items doesn't add healing for druids/shamans.

clavarnway · 07/14/07, 5:57 AM

Originally Posted by Sunchips

Two new flasks were added on the PTR.

World of Raids :: Index

Flask of Pure Death - A shadow, fire, and frost spell damage flask

Flask of Blinding Light - An arcane, holy, and nature damage flask

I have yet to have success copying my character over. I'm just curious as to whether anyone knows the new mats or not, and if anyone knows if the latter flask will add to +healing as well.

That's good news, do you know if they are world drops, rep based, mats, etc? Anybody?

nasda · 07/14/07, 5:58 AM

the mats are:

ImageShack - Hosting :: blindinglighttr9.jpg
ImageShack - Hosting :: puredeathon1.jpg

Charlatan · 07/14/07, 6:13 AM

Obviously these were introduced to use only Outlands herbs, so that's cool. But I'm confused why they'd cut down the damage on a flask like Supreme Power, and then put out flasks like these, which have a higher amount of damage. Though to be honest, I guess it's balanced by just having the damage in a couple damage type subsets.

For Affliction locks it looks like Pure Death will be great, so I'm jazzed. Gotta start saving up those fel lotuses and mana thistles now. Too bad it uses so much nightmare vine - those tree elites in Skettis don't drop that when you skin them, so it looks like actually hunting in Shadowmoon Valley is back in my herb run.

But really, they could have avoided all this by just changing the Supreme Power recipe, so why not do that? Change black lotus to 2 Fel Lotuses and you're done.

DarKNecross · 07/14/07, 6:19 AM

Originally Posted by clavarnway

That's good news, do you know if they are world drops, rep based, mats, etc? Anybody?

They just replaced the Shadow/Arcane Fortification flasks with these two.

Regan_ · 07/14/07, 6:28 AM

The few +holy damage effects currently in game don't add healing of any kind, don't think this will be an exception. "Healing" is an entirely different school of magic even if the spell effect is treated as holy or nature depending on the class casting the spell. Otherwise items that add to +healing only wouldn't be universal for all classes.

Sathik · 07/14/07, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sunchips

Flask of Pure Death - A shadow, fire, and frost spell damage flask

Flask of Blinding Light - An arcane, holy, and nature damage flask

Someone forgot that there exist Arcane/Fire mages it seems
What a shame, since its really nice raiding build

Kyth · 07/14/07, 6:33 AM

I'm sure it's the same people who forgot that the majority of warlocks use both fire and shadow, immolate being around 15%-17% of your dps in most of the standard builds, which devalues the 54 damage from soulfrost a fair bit (it's equivalent to about 48 +dmg, if I'm remembering right) not to mention the entire shadoweaving set and shadow power pots (adept's isn't good for an affliction lock due to the crit.)

However, the +70 flasks are still available, and the mats should go down in price. I have about 50 stockpiled (got a bunch of lotus for cheap) and I don't feel like I'll be missing much using them rather than the +80's. I'm definitely going to offer them in trade to any of our mages who want, however, because I know how they feel.

Setia · 07/14/07, 12:22 PM

Is it just me... or is one flask going to be in much higher demand?

Pure Death -> Mages, Warlocks, Shadow Priests (around 7 people in my raids)
Pure Light -> Ele Shammies, Moonkins (around 1-2 people)

Gotta stock up on Nightmare Vine!

Illundai · 07/14/07, 12:41 PM

You don't have any Arcane mages?

Sunchips · 07/14/07, 1:56 PM

We have one mage that does arcane dps. However, he does AB x 2 or 3, arcane missiles, scorch rotation. So while he loses a little damage on the scorch going with a new flask, it wouldn't be as big as an arcane mage that does AB, AB , fireball, scorch or something to that effect.

• sordee · 07/14/07, 3:45 PM

Going by the usual pattern, first patch, Binding light will only affect offensive spells.

Then in the next patch, Blizz will fix it to also do healing spells, just like every other spell damage enchant/buff in the history of the game. (Especially seeing how it contains nature and holy which is the two healing categories in the game)

EDIT: And of course at only +80 healing, most would argue, Flask of Restoration is still >2x better for most healers in the game.

Darkchani · 07/14/07, 3:49 PM

Or using healing power (+55) + major mageblood (16mp/5).

galzohar · 07/14/07, 3:51 PM

For arcane mages it's a whopping 1.3 DPS increase over 70 spell damage due to the loss of scorch damage with the 3XAB-AM-scorch. For arcane/fire mages it's just not worth it. I'd use it with my current 10/48/3 though until I have 2/5 T5 ;p

Brakar · 07/14/07, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by sordee

Going by the usual pattern, first patch, Binding light will only affect offensive spells.

Then in the next patch, Blizz will fix it to also do healing spells, just like every other spell damage enchant/buff in the history of the game. (Especially seeing how it contains nature and holy which is the two healing categories in the game)

EDIT: And of course at only +80 healing, most would argue, Flask of Restoration is still >2x better for most healers in the game.

This has only been true for effects that only say +damage. However, these are school specific and even currently +holy damage has no affect on healing, which is by design since they haven't changed it when they fixed other +damage not giving +healing bugs.

Corinthian · 07/15/07, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by sordee

Going by the usual pattern, first patch, Binding light will only affect offensive spells.

Then in the next patch, Blizz will fix it to also do healing spells, just like every other spell damage enchant/buff in the history of the game. (Especially seeing how it contains nature and holy which is the two healing categories in the game)

Nature and Holy are not healing categories. +healing is considered a separate school from all the damage schools. Older items that had a +Spellpower bonus affected all offensive schools. They simply modified them to affect ALL schools. (Adding +healing)

Anything that increases nature/holy damage only has never affected healing.

DecimusGarona · 07/15/07, 12:21 PM

I still would really like to see a +healing flask, as a restoration druid the mana regeneration flask just isn't worth using over elixir of healing and a guardian elixir.

DeeNogger · 07/15/07, 3:42 PM

Originally Posted by Sathik

Someone forgot that there exist Arcane/Fire mages it seems
What a shame, since its really nice raiding build

Mages should stay 10/48/3 fire spec until they get the 2/5 T5 bonus, in which a deep arcane build is competitive raid dps. Clearly this is blizzards way of saying that you crazy mages with your Arcane/Fire "scorch" builds are dropping the ball.

Sunchips · 07/15/07, 7:54 PM

Originally Posted by DeeNogger

Mages should stay 10/48/3 fire spec until they get the 2/5 T5 bonus, in which a deep arcane build is competitive raid dps. Clearly this is blizzards way of saying that you crazy mages with your Arcane/Fire "scorch" builds are dropping the ball.

Or blizzard perhaps once again left the mind closed and simply forgot that there are other competitive talent specs.

Pheroz · 07/15/07, 10:14 PM

Originally Posted by Sunchips

Or blizzard perhaps once again left the mind closed and simply forgot that there are other competitive talent specs.

I'm willing to bet it was that one. Regardless, with the price of black lotus dwarfing that of fel lotus, its still a very good thing that they added new dps caster flasks, even if theres a specific build that doesn't benefit perfectly from them.

Saffron · 07/15/07, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Pheroz

I'm willing to bet it was that one. Regardless, with the price of black lotus dwarfing that of fel lotus, its still a very good thing that they added new dps caster flasks, even if theres a specific build that doesn't benefit perfectly from them.

It's not really "a" specific build. Many mages are arcane/fire or arcane/frost, regularly using both schools, and many different specs (35 in arcane, 37, 40, 43). I don't even know which school delivers the most damage in an arcane/frost build's different cast cycles, making these flasks complete garbage for them. Don't know how to translate this good enough into how the AP flasks could work, but imagine something like "Increases the attack power of all your special attacks by 120" and one with "Increases the attack power of all your auto attacks by 120". Oh yeah people would be happy about that.

Brakar · 07/16/07, 4:46 AM

Originally Posted by Saffron

It's not really "a" specific build. Many mages are arcane/fire or arcane/frost, regularly using both schools, and many different specs (35 in arcane, 37, 40, 43). I don't even know which school delivers the most damage in an arcane/frost build's different cast cycles, making these flasks complete garbage for them. Don't know how to translate this good enough into how the AP flasks could work, but imagine something like "Increases the attack power of all your special attacks by 120" and one with "Increases the attack power of all your auto attacks by 120". Oh yeah people would be happy about that.

Every shadow priest and warlock is insane to not use the new flask. Even if every mage still had to use the old flask, the demand for black lotus will drop significantly and the price with it. The main reason I'll be using the new flask isn't that it's 10 more damage, it's that it uses fel lotus. The 10 damage is nice, but the dps difference is extremely minimal. I agree the distribution of schools is unfavorable for some mages but it's far from spec destroying. 10 damage difference in potential +dmg (not counting tailoring gear issues if applicable) isn't going to make or break a spec of any sort. It's more a small perk for those specs that match the flask.