If you want CoR up on the mob is more or less up to your healers. If they are capable of dealing with it I would say stick it on. We use it for most fights in Hyjal and Black Temple these days and I we almost never wipe due to tank deaths. In the end it's all about making it work for your guild, our guild has a pretty solid healing team so I almost never hesitate in using CoR. The fights I consider it and ask the healers are when fights have a silence or fear effect on them.

The good thing about CoR is that it helps the DPS classes that are able to deliver a large ammount of damage over a larger perioid of time. Rogues simply doesn't run out of juice to say it that way. There are also those fights like Gorefiend where the needed healing scales up as the fight goes on, making the fight harder and more straining on the healers. Being able to optimize your largest damage sources will help as the healers will not be strained towards the end.

Also to be a bit on the harsh side, if you have crappy rogues, enhancement shamans, hunters and/or DPS warriors don't bother to put it up. The only effect of the curse is to scale their damage and there is little point unless they will deliver anyway.

Armor values of bosses in Black Temple:
High Warlord Naj'entus: 7700
Supremus: 7700
Shade of Akama: 7700
Teron Gorefiend: 6200
Gurtogg Bloodboil: 7700
Reliquary of Souls:
- Essence of Suffering: 0
- Essence of Desire: 7700
- Essence of Anger: 7700
Mother Shahraz: 6200
Illidari Council:
- Gathios the Shatterer: 6200
Illidan Stormrage: 7700



I'll have to revise it accordingly.

Like I said, the damage difference between Imp Demo + CoRex vs. Untalented Demo (why waste talent points if warlocks won't put up CoRex?) is very overrated. On Lurker, only like 80 damage more per hit, after mitigation. Looking at fights like Azgalor with silence, where your tank can perhaps take 3 straight hits without heals, that's effectively something like -16 to -24 stamina for your tank--after the silence is over it's a safe bet that massive overhealing will occur.

Having read through the thread and in the process of trying to beat the ZA timed run, what would be the best use of Amplify Magic and Dampen Magic on the ZA Bosses? From a few comments I noted Amp on the Bear Boss and Hex Lord, but what about the others. Also what about the trash. It would be difficult to not go OOM if I was trying to rebuff every 10 minutes, but any suggestions on just the main tank and off tank? I am mostly interested in the 4 avatars since after that you have time to fully buff the whole raid. Our general path is Eagle, Bear, Dragon hawk, Lynx.

A) Pre raid buff -- Amp magic the whole raid.?
B) Just before Eagle Pull – leave amp magic on everyone?
C) Bear Trash and Bear – Amp Magic Main and off tank?
D) Dragonhawk Trash (we MC and CC the flame casters) – Amp Magic Main and off tank?
E) Dragonhawk – Unsure?
F) Lynx & Lynx trash. – Amp Magic Main and off Tank?

Here's a list i compiled of the consensus I gathered from the thread. There were some discrepancies but i'd like to use it as a guideline. As always, if you can't buff the raid, at least consider the ones taking the most damage (i.e. tanks/melee).

Kara:
Attumen - Amplify Raid
Maiden - Dampen Melee not tank
Curator - Amplify Tank, dampen raid
Shade of Aran - dampen raid
Netherspite - Amplify Raid

Gruul's Lair:
High King - Amplify Maulgar and Mage Tank (Fireball unaffected)
Gruul - Amplify Raid

Magtheridon - Dampen Raid, Amplify tank after channelers are dead

Serpentshrine Cavern:
Hydross the Unstable - dampen raid
The Lurker Below - amplify raid
Leotheras the Blind - amplify raid, dampen warlock tank
Fathom Lord Karathress - Amplify Raid (only spitfire affected)
Morogrim Tidewalker - amplify raid but not main tank
Lady Vashj - Amplify Raid

The Eye:
Al'ar - Amplify Raid
High Astromancer Solarian - no
Void Reaver - amplify melee
Kael'thas Sunstrider - Amplify Raid (even tank)

ZA:
Bear - Amplify Raid
Eagle - Dampen Raid not Tank
Lynx - Amplify Raid
Dragonhawk - Amplify Tank
Hex-Lord - Amplify Raid

Hyjal Summit: (no time for buffs)
Rage Winterchill -
Anetheron -
Kaz'rogal -
Azgalor -
Archimonde - Amplify Melee

Black Temple:
High Warlord Naj'entus - Amplify raid
Supremus -
Shade of Akama -
Teron Gorefiend -
Gurtogg Bloodboil - Amplify Raid
Reliquary of Souls -
Mother Shahraz - Amplify Tank, Dampen Raid
Illidari Council -
Illidan Stormrage - Amplify tank (remove in p2)

Generally, dampen magic is only a gain if a player is receiving more instances of magic damage than s/he is receiving instances of healing. This is almost certainly not the case in Aran (each 5k fireball will probably be healed up by at least two heals, and certainly no less than one) or Hydross (tombs and DoTs are both enough damage that they will not be healed up by less than one heal each) or Leotheras (when healing actually matters on the warlock tank he's taking hits in the 6k+ range; unless you want to extend the point at which he will actually literally be one-shot amplify is going to provide more).

Dampen does help for the melee on Maiden and the non-tanks (non-hateful soak) on Curator.

Amplify is almost always worthwhile on all tanks. (Exception to tanks tanking elementals.) It is often worthwhile on the raid, but (in my opinion) usually not worth the time unless raid healing is particularly intense (hi Gurtogg).

If anyone can actually show me a time that Amp Magic is not actually a net gain for a raid, I'd like to see it.

For a raid, I think there are some cases - the melee on Maiden of Virtue, for example. For a tank though, highly unlikely, especially in 25-person content (due to the number of healers the tank is receiving as compared to the number of instances of magic damage).

I can't see there being a situation where amp would not be a net gain. However, there are cases where you're taking heavy burst (Twins, perhaps?) and you're effectively reducing everyone's stam.

The farther we get into Sunwell (now working on M'uru), it seems that most abilities are completely unaffected by Amplify Magic. We use it on every raid member on Felmyst, and having killed Twins two times now it appears to be 100% safe there as well. I know with absolute certainty it doesn't affect Flame Sear/Conflag, and comparing the average damage of Shadow Nova on our WWS to other guilds, if Amp Magic has any effect at all, it's trivial (under 100 damage out of ~3500).

Without giving away anything about the fight, it seems safe on M'uru as well.

Interesting. I wonder why they did this? It seems like they could make everything unaffected and just reduce the damage a little bit, and have the same effect.

As my raid leaders are unfortunately not convinced about the merits of amplify magic in fights involving any kind of incoming magic damage, I'm trying to convince them on a case by case basis.

Regarding Zul'jin in Zul'Aman...

1. phase: no incoming magic damage
2. phase: Creeping Paralysis is nature-based, but will be dispelled anyway, so no worries
3. phase: Cyclone and Zap do not seem to be affected by amplify
4. phase: no incoming magic damage
5. phase: lots of fire damage.... can it be amplified/dampened or is it "fixed" too? Does anyone know?

So based on this, I'd say amplify the whole raid and have everyone click off the buff during the transition to phase 5. Any thoughts or different findings?

It appears that someone already did the Amp/Deamp Magic portion of this for the new ThinkTank Wiki, and the CoR part seems like a perfect candidate to get it's own page. I'm going to start working on compiling the data from this thread now, but if anyone has any other sources they'd like to recommend let me know, please. Also, if someone else is already working on it, let me know and I'll be glad to help if needed, or I can find something else to work on.

Let us know when you've posted your When to use CoR list!

After years of thinking that Amp Magic was a flat +240 health on every heal, I recently did a short experiment which showed that the bonus is multiplied by casting time. I buffed myself with my 2/2 Improved Amplify Magic talent (i.e. +360 healing) and my paladin friend chain-cast heals on me. His Holy Light spell gained approximately 250, while his Flash of Light gained only about 150.

So I'm wondering, is Amp Magic considered like an extra +healing enchant to the caster? Would for instance a priest with 5/5 empowered healing gain an extra 20% from this? What about downranking? What about buffs and debuffs during a boss encounter? Or, is it still a flat bonus, apart from only the casting time coefficient?

If anyone knows in more detail could they post please? Otherwise I'll continue with more experiments.

I'm pretty sure amp magic just adds that much +heal to any heal that lands on that target. It gets multiplied through all the usual coefficients and so forth, and every talent that affects +healing on gear should affect it. (I have not actually tested this, but I see no reason for it to work differently.)

Hey Jarlyn,

Can you tell us if Amplify Magic affects Kalecgos & Brutallus spells ? (Like the arcane aura for Kalec and Burn / Meteor Slash for Brut) ?

Thanks

Brutallus - amplify the raid if you have two mages. Amplify tanks, warlocks and squishy people if you have only one.
No abilities deal more damage with amplify. And I think is can save a squishy burn target, or a tank through a hit streak.

Kalecgos - I think the arcane AoE pulse is affected by amp/dampen. His aura adds a debuff that increases arcane damage taken, this mechanic usually stacks with amp/dampen. And because his AoE pulse is affected by the debuff (that's the whole point of portal rotations), I guess amplify is affected as well.
I don't know about SBol volley.
Curse of Neverending is affected, but with a small coefficient. I think it added ~10 damage per tick or so. The extra damage does not scale as the curse progresses though, so your ticks go from 100-200-400-... to 110-210-410-..., so it's pretty trivial.
We amplify tanks, not sure about the raid though. The extra healing is good, but what kills people are Arcane-Portal, or Arcane-SBolt, or SBolt-SBolt spikes.

On Felmyst (and beyond as reported by other people), amplify is great and doesn't increase damage taken.


Old post, but still! Terestian Illhoof is the one and only fight where Dampening the raid (except for Terestian's tank) is good.
It cuts the imps' firebolt damage in half, which more than offsets the healing loss on the raid and the warlock/warrior/mage/whoever tanks and AoEs the imps.
It also reduced every tick if the sacrifice by the full amount of dampen, making it easier to live though.

I know, Karazhan is old and nerfed content, but that's my only use for Dampen magic besides farming Elementals for motes.

Correction: you probably meant to say dampening. It's equally good on the Curator for the same reason (~800 damage/second by those arcane things; ~350 with improved dampen)

I'm not in a very serious guild but we're still solidly progressing and are currently 5/6, 3/4, 2/5. They don't usually min/max class balance for encounters for example which usually means we have the following makeup:
4 Warrior Tanks
1 Prot Pally
6 Physical Dps (Rogues/Warrs/EnhShamm/Hunters/etc)
3 Warlocks
4 Other Caster dps (EleSham/Mages/SPs/etc)
7 Healers

Now, I'm trying to find some numbers(boss ap numbers maybe?) that justify the use of CoR since we have enough warlocks showing up each raid to put it up (even before new patch) especially with the fairly high number of physical dps in the raids.

Any way I can prove to em that CoR when used with x/5 Imp Demo won't result in significantly more dmg taken? I've linked to this thread and 1-2 others on the WoW forums but I'm positive the leadership is *not* even considering CoR atm.

edit: Missed out a word while typing. Also included guild progress.

I'm very much interested in direct evidence to support the useage of it as well. I know the 'top guilds' use it an all that, but my guild leadership seems to be concerned with the increased damage the tank will be tanking.

The interesting thing is, I don't think they use Imp Devo or Imp CoW at all, and if they did use maxed either one, would the result be a net gain in DPS done by the raid *and* reduction in DPS taken by the tank?



EDIT: Clarified an ambiguous point

Imp. demo shout combined with screech completely negates the extra AP from CoR and leaves the boss at 0 AP (or the minimum that boss AP can be reduced to). If you don't have screech I think CoR + imp. demo leaves the boss with something like 20 AP more than it would have without CoR (not sure of the exact number).

We use CoR with imp. demo but no screech on Brutallus and we do him with 7 healers.