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Old 07/24/07, 11:31 AM   #1
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Rare craft threads - a cleaner solution

Over the last couple of weeks I have been working on a "small" website which allows users to enter their professions and offers a nice and easy search option to get found.
Seeing that 95 out of 100 realm forums in EU and DE have stickied threats which are completely crowded, hard to update and in many cases already deserted by their creators it was finally time to do something - properly.
I´m not much into the US forums except for some short glimpses, but I strongly assume you guys have those posts all over the place as well.

Before talking any further:
WoW Crafts - Home
Registering is disabled currently because I am still not 100% done but you can, and it would really help me a lot, use the account:
Login: Conspiracy
Password: test123
(already has a couple of accounts on it)
Note: Page might bug for short moments as it's currently being worked on.

A bit into detail:
Languages German and English supported right from the start.
Quick character creation(this only takes you 5 clicks)
Names are checked via Armory right on creation.
Each professions talents have been sorted out so you don't get a list of 400 useless ones.
All talents have JS mouseovers with allakhazam texts so you know what it does.
"Raid crafts", requiring Heart of Darkness, Nether Vortex and similar have been branded so you can find em quicker or ignore em faster.
This also applies to the search where you can simply filter them out.
Resistance gear has been moved to the bottom of the lists for clean filtering.

What you cannot see at the moment if you´re using the English version:
Guild management, allowing you to create a guild on a server - thus adding some credibility to users and especially Alt-characters.

Currently in the works and preview in the German version:
Character search with Ajax. Guild Search with Ajax. A quick talent search with Ajax.
Adding Spanish and French names as well as mouseovers is not that much of a problem in the long run.

I added Boethius as example to the account, just to note that.
You are free to create characters on the account and check the features and i´d be happy if you do so. If you are "just" interested in the sorted item list this page is using, try the Search function on the "Aegwyn EU" server(with/without raid crafts) - all 7 professions were added there.

And ye, I'm thankful for feedback

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Old 07/24/07, 12:47 PM   #2
Fizwidget
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Warlock
 
Medivh
When did EJ become the place to beta-test your new web app? Ah well, I'll play ball...

1) Why would my real name be required to register?

2) I'm an engineer/tailor, does your site validate recipes so that I cannot add Flask of Supreme Power to my craftable list? What if I was Alchemy (skill = 290)?

3) Just a suggestion, instead of looking up arcane/fire/shadow etc gear on wowhead and then cross-checking it with your site, I'd like to be able to search for "Arcane Resist Gear" etc. and have it output a list of AR gear (perhaps also add selectable armor types), with the respective crafters.

Dauntless: "Incapable of being intimidated or discouraged; fearless"

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Old 07/24/07, 1:11 PM   #3
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Fizwidget View Post
When did EJ become the place to beta-test your new web app? Ah well, I'll play ball...

1) Why would my real name be required to register?

2) I'm an engineer/tailor, does your site validate recipes so that I cannot add Flask of Supreme Power to my craftable list? What if I was Alchemy (skill = 290)?

3) Just a suggestion, instead of looking up arcane/fire/shadow etc gear on wowhead and then cross-checking it with your site, I'd like to be able to search for "Arcane Resist Gear" etc. and have it output a list of AR gear (perhaps also add selectable armor types), with the respective crafters.
1) Its a premade form, those drop out anyway (and register is disabled atm)
2) You cannot add recipes without checking that profession.
Also on detail pages names are linked with armory so players can crosscheck they professions and the kill level.
And if you add a profession you dont have, players will see that anyway on the armory.
It´s a bit harder in fact to get the right professions from armory and cross check the skill value.
I tried to make scamming hard, but its always a little self caution left.
3) Thats another nice thing ye, but its a bit harder to make

As for the beta testing, id agree to half but good wow page need some feedback from wow players, designing such a page on my personal thoughts as EU/EN gamer and asking DE and US players to use it ain't a great idea imho.

Thanks for the questions

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Old 07/24/07, 1:39 PM   #4
afflickted
Bare Durid
 
Tauren Druid
 
Suramar
This is actually a really cool idea. It would be nice to eliminate our huge forum thread on our realm forums that is about half maintained by a busy guildy. Very nice!

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Old 07/24/07, 5:06 PM   #5
Tangles
Von Kaiser
 
Tauren Warrior
 
Mal'Ganis
A couple of suggestions:

1. You need a cleaner, simpler URL, no one is going to remember the one you have currently.

2. On the front page, instead of putting the latest site news put the search box or a recently updated/added profile list and a search box. Generally no one wants to see site news or change logs.

Definitely a cool idea though.

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Old 07/24/07, 5:10 PM   #6
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Its going online on www.wow-crafts.eu ye
There would be a load of additions possible like WTB/WTS pattern posts, blackboards and such but thats definitely something to look into later on.

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Old 07/24/07, 5:15 PM   #7
snape
Great Tiger
 
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Human Mage
 
Destromath
Originally Posted by Madlax View Post
Its going online on www.wow-crafts.eu ye
There would be a load of additions possible like WTB/WTS pattern posts, blackboards and such but thats definitely something to look into later on.
I suggest against WTB/WTS (unless you can filter people's queries by server before the enter the "bazaar" or whatever you'd like to call that area). I just don't care if you WTB Spellstrike Hood (which I can make) if you're not on my server.

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Old 07/24/07, 5:38 PM   #8
funny
Glass Joe
 
Tauren Shaman
 
Frostmourne (EU)
we use profession.clan-hdlx.de for quite some time. Its only for EU frostmourne and in german though. All in all a very good solution to look things up especially as people can update their profile. Good luck with your page!

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Old 07/24/07, 5:52 PM   #9
Voljun
Piston Honda
 
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Troll Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
The first trial entry I got was a level 10 that claimed to have every alchemy recipe. Is it possible to filter a person if their professions are different than their armory? Can you filter out people by level?

I would also suggest a rating system like Thottbot and WoWhead. That way people won't have to look at every persons armory just to verify they can indeed make whatever they say they can. I would recommend that if you do this, you enable people to vote without signing in.


What about adding a crafting fee? or a comment section?

I also think you'll run into problems as people are going to quit or change professions. The more that this happens, the more unreliable your information is. The rating system would help, like I mentioned earlier. But you are going to need some work around for this.

This is a really tiny thing, but as most of us know, the vast majority of WoW players are stupid. If possible, use a .com instead of a eu. People will tend to forget.

Hope this helps

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Old 07/24/07, 5:55 PM   #10
Facktotum
Von Kaiser
 
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Night Elf Rogue
 
Alonsus (EU)
Originally Posted by Tangles View Post
A couple of suggestions:

1. You need a cleaner, simpler URL, no one is going to remember the one you have currently.

2. On the front page, instead of putting the latest site news put the search box or a recently updated/added profile list and a search box. Generally no one wants to see site news or change logs.

Definitely a cool idea though.
The idea behind bookmarks is very simple. I suggest you start looking into using bookmarks for the links you like to visit often or plan to visit

Regarding the thread a nice idea good luck with the site

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Old 07/24/07, 6:16 PM   #11
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Originally Posted by Voljun View Post
The first trial entry I got was a level 10 that claimed to have every alchemy recipe. Is it possible to filter a person if their professions are different than their armory? Can you filter out people by level?

I would also suggest a rating system like Thottbot and WoWhead. That way people won't have to look at every persons armory just to verify they can indeed make whatever they say they can. I would recommend that if you do this, you enable people to vote without signing in.


What about adding a crafting fee? or a comment section?

I also think you'll run into problems as people are going to quit or change professions. The more that this happens, the more unreliable your information is. The rating system would help, like I mentioned earlier. But you are going to need some work around for this.

This is a really tiny thing, but as most of us know, the vast majority of WoW players are stupid. If possible, use a .com instead of a eu. People will tend to forget.

Hope this helps
Ye, added a level 10 char as quick example.

The profession grab from Armory is the simpler part, the voting in itself is a nice thing I thought of as well but it´s way harder to realize in the long run.
The "scam" marking of someone itself ain't hard - but making it so the scam report has to get verified or denied is a lot of programming.(Ebay style for example)

In game it's as hard to verify if someone has the profession or not - but what do you trust if you're not in a big guild or your big guild doesn't have the enchant?
Someone with "known" guild tag?
Someone you got referred to?
It´s a lot of background thinking involved in that, and different people prefer different methods

But the feedback is really nice, some more stuff to tweak out.

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Old 07/24/07, 7:17 PM   #12
chibihost
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Area 52
Few suggestions.
I'd like to be able to pick my server, profession, and just type in a keyword. I don't really want to see every item/enchant everyone can do.


Possibly put the crafter's name in a tooltip on the results page. This way you don't have to go 'in' to each item to see who can do it.

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Old 07/24/07, 8:32 PM   #13
Tiburon11
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Warrior
 
Skywall
What would be really cool, would be to add some sort of armory feature similar to the guild ranking website. Have it scan the armory for players with the required profession level and rep, and than mark them as available for that enchant/recipe/etc.

Reclaimed is currently looking for 2 Mages, 2 Warlocks, and a Holy Priest who are Elitist Jerks just like the rest of our guild.

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Old 07/25/07, 3:50 AM   #14
Cathela
Still Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Facktotum View Post
The idea behind bookmarks is very simple. I suggest you start looking into using bookmarks for the links you like to visit often or plan to visit
There are many many lazy people in the world who don't make a bookmark until they've been to a site five million times. I know this because I'm one of these people. While it would be nice if everyone bookmarked things right away, the reality is that there are a lot of people like me out there.

An address that's easy to type/remember will get more traffic than one that isn't.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

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Old 07/25/07, 9:30 AM   #15
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Since the EU Professions forum and the Blizzard Community poster punished me with a blue post and a news I'm updating this here also .

Characters are checked on creation and change on level >= 60 and if they have the proper professions(no talent level!) according to the Armory.
Guild management is online, not working 100% yet though.
Search has been refined, needs some more looking into it as well.

Next thing on the list is adding the character and guild pages, adding links where they should be and minor fixes - then i´ll see about the rest.

And keep it coming

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Old 07/25/07, 10:53 AM   #16
Ailetha
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Antonidas
Wow! Fabulous idea. I love it. Although, I do agree about the easier-to-remember site name. Hopefully the one you've selected is easy enough to remember for most US users.

I will be forwarding the players on Skywall US to your site as soon as it is up and running. Can't wait to see it completed!


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Old 07/25/07, 11:32 AM   #17
 sp00n
banned
 
Night Elf Rogue
 
Wrathbringer (EU)
Nice language selector you have there.


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Old 07/25/07, 12:25 PM   #18
8ballistic
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Earthen Ring
Might I suggest you add alchemy specializations?

If there are two people in your guild with Flask of Might Restoration, it would be useful to know if one is an elixir master and one is a transmute master.

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Old 07/25/07, 12:59 PM   #19
sathran
You just keep trying, 'till you run out of cake!
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Sporeggar (EU)
As someone stated above, adding a quick search (maybe a "Server" + "Trade Skill" dropdowns) on the homepage would work.

On the main search page, I'd reorder the items like so:
  • Server
  • Faction
  • Trade Skill
  • Raid Craft

This way they'll be ordered in terms of granularity, which is always good.

Consider switching the "Faction" selector from a dropdown to a pair of radio buttons, and the "Raid Craft" dropdown to a checkbox, to speed up the process of filling out the form.

--

After using it a bit, I've gathered a few serious additional recommendations:

Strip slashes and any markup elements.
Try adding a user with the following surname:
<iframe src="http://www.google.com" width="1000" height="1000"></iframe
The result is self-explanatory.

If you're using PHP, parsing input with strip_tags() and/or htmlentities() is essencial.

Always filter user input.
You're dumping the user inputs directly into the database queries. If a user inputs '; in a search field, it gets fed to the database, and that could be a disaster ('; terminates your current SQL command, from then on the user can run arbitrary code on your DB).

Disable magic quotes on php.ini (this prevents double-quoting) and use mysql_escape_string() or pg_escape_string() according to your database flavor.

Encrypt passwords.
If you apply the previous steps to password fields, user passwords might get broken.
Be sure to store user passwords after an md5() function to prevent that from happening.


Sorry if this got a bit technical, but your site is getting popular, and abuse is bound to happen.

Keep up the good work!

Last edited by sathran : 07/25/07 at 1:36 PM. Reason: Adding additional information

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Old 07/25/07, 1:35 PM   #20
Emily
Piston Honda
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Doomhammer (EU)
With recipes requiring BoP components such as Nether or Vortexes, it would be nice to have the amount the crafter will charge if
a) you supply all mats apart from Nether
b) crafter supplies all mats

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Old 07/25/07, 2:44 PM   #21
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
@sathran
That's one pretty sweet post i´ll look into tomorrow but:
Consider switching the "Faction" selector from a dropdown to a pair of radio buttons, and the "Raid Craft" dropdown to a checkbox, to speed up the process of filling out the form.

I added a faction "Both" so people can check cross faction as well by default - results page allows you to sort by faction anyway and you´ll get results that way even if you only fill out server and profession.
And i added raid craft so people can filter a little - at least the common player does not need raid crafts to be displayed by default or like the Jewelcrafting list would just make you howl.

But ye, depending on peoples preferences i might adjust a little

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Old 07/25/07, 2:54 PM   #22
 Shadowed
Soda Popinski
 
Tauren Druid
 
Mal'Ganis
Always filter user input.
You're dumping the user inputs directly into the database queries. If a user inputs '; in a search field, it gets fed to the database, and that could be a disaster ('; terminates your current SQL command, from then on the user can run arbitrary code on your DB).
This applies to pretty much all input even if it's not an edit box, if you have any sort of data going from the users browser to your client it shouldn't be trusted. If you expect a number make sure it's a number, if it's only suppose to be 5 characters long make sure it's only 5 characters, even if it's something like a drop down box you should be sure the value you get is actually the one you want.


If you implement a forget password kind of feature, make sure the ID given is unique and can't be guessed the easiest solution is make it millisecond time + a random number, just passing the current time or an incrementing ID is easy to hack.

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Old 07/25/07, 6:04 PM   #23
sathran
You just keep trying, 'till you run out of cake!
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Sporeggar (EU)
Originally Posted by Shadowed View Post
This applies to pretty much all input even if it's not an edit box, if you have any sort of data going from the users browser to your client it shouldn't be trusted. If you expect a number make sure it's a number, if it's only suppose to be 5 characters long make sure it's only 5 characters, even if it's something like a drop down box you should be sure the value you get is actually the one you want.
Indeed, data validation is extremely important.

If you can use bind parameters (as in the oci8 / oracle XE php libs) you can soften variable parsing a bit, focusing only on removing any markup elements and data integrity / type matching.

There are to ways two query a DB, using bind variables and the wrong way. :P

Last edited by sathran : 07/27/07 at 6:31 AM. Reason: Typo

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Old 07/27/07, 1:05 PM   #24
Madlax
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Twisting Nether (EU)
Made some slight adjustments from your input.
Page online at WOW Crafts - Startseite now.
Test users are still up, adding a new feature to the whole thing on monday i hope.

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Old 07/27/07, 1:29 PM   #25
Theras
Bald Bull
 
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Aurrius
Tauren Paladin
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by sathran View Post
Always filter user input.
You're dumping the user inputs directly into the database queries. If a user inputs '; in a search field, it gets fed to the database, and that could be a disaster ('; terminates your current SQL command, from then on the user can run arbitrary code on your DB).
Well thank god I read your post before going to test out the site, since I musing about making a character named ';DROP DATABASE just now.

As for reports, bug or otherwise:
  1. If you reselect English as your primary language on the main page, then press the large black Login button on the top navigation bar (as opposed to the orange side bar) it reverts back to German.

  2. I don't understand what the check box is for on the character creation page or the character Data tab, as it has no label. I also don't understand what the orange asterisk signifies next to Profession on the Data tab.

  3. As iterated by other posters, specialization information and Nether/Vortex pricing per crafter would be greatly appreciated. I know I get a few whispers a day asking for Bracers of the Green Fortress, and then they flip out when they can't get me to combine it for 25 gold (because that's a great tip!).

  4. "Talent Search" would probably be more intuitively called "Item Search" in English.
The site looks pretty outstanding so far, though. I look forward to guild support, and being able to actually use it when it goes live.

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