• Karakas

I actually don't think that tanking in a couch increases the chances of being ported onto the MT. However, tanking in the middle has the definite advantage of more open space to move through in the event that FA is on top of the MT, whereas when we tanked by the couch we oftentimes had the people ported next to or inside the couch, requiring more maneuvering and jumping before the ported people can get away from tanks, meaning they inevitably take more damage.

In the winning attempt I think we had no less than 3 times when FA was on top of the melee + tank pile, but because it was out in the open people could mostly move away quickly enough such that the damage to the tanks was limited.

 

◊ Quigon

Thats our FA healer - he spams that to keep inspiration/AH up between FA's.

 

Dots

And why would a Sinister Beam on the MT be a guaranteed wipe? Sure there is a chance to get killed in the air, it's pretty frustrating and obviously not intended. It's also a pretty rare occurrence, so don't make it sound like it happens all day long.
As Quigon already said, you don't get FA on the tank spot that often in the open. I usually pop some sort of cooldown if I drop below ~15k with FA people close-by. Wearing more SR helps with FA and punts as well. I'm using 313 buffed right now and healing seems easier than it was at 200. Maybe capped SR is even better, haven't tried it because I didn't bother crafting the legs.

 

Covertghost

One thing that bugged me quigon:

I noticed by your combat log that one of your paladins FoL'd you.

If they're MT healing (this might be my bias since we're doing this fight with 7 healers/2 pallys), they should NEVER EVER cast FoL under ANY circumstance. Always cook HL rank 11/9/8.

They should hopefully have 4pc t5 by now, which might have saved that.

Though it might be my bias because I basically force our paladins to spell haste/4pc tier5 for max HPS.

 

• Neux

We do the fight with three paladins. One of them just mindlessly mashes rank 7 Fol on the tank and never stops casting it. It helps with the stability of the fight. The other two paladins use a mixture of holy lights for efficiency. I personally use rank 7 for most of my tank healing, upranking if needed.

 

◊ Quigon

That is our fast healer Covert - as indicated by many other posts here, MT healing is quite improved with 1-2 fast healers, and we noticed it helped as well. It effectively increases your HP by 2-3k, and provides a bit of filler in those big valleys. Anytime you die in under 2 seconds you're effectively dealing with damage that is not realistically healable outside of luck. It is true that a heal could've landed from one of the 3 bigger healers during that time - but you cannot bank on it.

Keep in mind those shots didn't have a sinister beam, and no parry - which adds nearly another 15k damage to the "potential."

I'm not sure this is true either. Maybe it is and we're unlucky. But the attempts prior to just throwing our hands up and wedging the tank we had 5 or 6 (this is honestly not an exaggeration) wipes in a row from MT kickback/instagibs.
The final attempt in fact I was flung 3 times, once before I even landed from the previous kickback, all before 90%.
Sebudai here is indicating his guild had 3 mt KB's in roughly 10% of her HP as well.

I'm pretty sure however that fatal attraction + lash + sinister + 2 hits in 2 seconds is a guaranteed wipe. Even with a 50% resist rate, you're looking at 32,000 damage in 2 seconds - up to 26k of which can occur instantly (this assumes the FA targets leave proximity in under 2 seconds). Realistically this is going to shoot beyond 40k - add about 3k per second for every parry, which you can probably see 3 of in 2 seconds...

 

Covertghost

Why downrank FoL on a fight where parry spike is so high =\

 

• Karakas

Rank 7 FoL is max rank.

I think he's referring to rank 7 HL, which is what I use a lot as well for this fight, ocassionally going to 9 or 11 as necessary.

 

• Neux

Downranking Holy Lights, not Flash of Lights.

Edit: Beaten to the punch.

 

◊ Quigon

I'm pretty sure Prayer of Mending also does not proc on fatal attraction damage. Can anyone confirm or explain this? I thought the tooltip on PoM was fairly clear.

 

• Sebudai

We went over two days of attempts without having the MT die from KB+Saber Lash. Today it happened once on an early attempt but that's it. Then on our winning attempt our MT gets KB'd at 18%, 16%, and finally gets KB'd plus SL'd at 3%.

KB+SL has been very rare for us, but it sounds like it isn't for a lot of other guilds. That's just how random and retarded this thing is.

 

ZX7

The beam itself isn't an issue, but the beam/lash is what most people are complaining about It seems. As you said getting punted and lash mid air is a pretty rare occurrence, but so is having FA port ontop of your MT. If you can completely avoid 1 of those why not do it? We got shahrandom on our 2nd try last week with some luck of surviving FA ports on our ranged then melee camp but we'll never wipe to a beam/lash. I still don't see how being in the open will allow your MT to avoid death from bad FA placement just for the reasoning that he can adjust or your FA people can adjust better, your MT can use cooldowns in either situation. In the open your MT can move aswell but people already complain about size of OT/MT effecting her lash not hitting the OTs, so by moving your mt increases your chance of this too. Maybe we have been very lucky but we've never had anyone ported and stuck in the couch.

 

ZX7

You're right, I don't know why though. It would be pretty nice if it worked.

 

• Neux

It is probably some wierd interaction with the nature of the debuff and the players dealing damage to each other. I can't imagine that it is intended.

 

Desall

Our priests noticed PoM doesn't work on FA as well.
Furthermore I believe neither does Earth Shield proc on FA.

As to why your guess is as good as mine.

EDIT: I should refresh more.

 

• Karakas

Our paladins also noticed that when we Divine Shielded with FA up, we weren't "Immune" to the damage, but rather we just fully "Resisted" all of it:

 

Pyrul

I don't get it.

Why does everyone use camps? and not individual spacing ala Naj'entus? It seems painfully obvious to me while looking at:

Sinister Beam: Thottbot World of Warcraft: Sinister Beam

Vile Beam: Thottbot World of Warcraft: Vile Beam

And considering the nature of FA. Meaning that with one or two or even three camps, the amount of damage and potential for a wipe due to that huge damage from FA ports on top of those camps would be much higher than a port between two or three evenly spaced people. I can't realistically imagine the entire ranged raid or even half of it having the telepathic communication to all move in the correct direction away from a nearby FA while simultaneously having the FA'd person move in response to them or vise versa. Wheres having 2-3 nearby people move would be much more likely.

No, I have not done the fight (yet, getting close) and I realize this another "help how does fight work" post with thottbot links to look professional, and it is. However I have read every piece of literature about this fight that I have available to me and think I have a very good understanding of the game overall and this fight. But the way many people are doing this just doesn't make sense.

Maybe I am misunderstanding a mechanic that I have to experience for myself? Are the beam "jumps" infinite range? Even so the FA advantage seems to be enough to warrant spreading out.

http://www.nascentguild.net/

 

◊ Quigon

You clump to reduce the chance of being hit by FA. There really isn't any other reason. If there was no FA, the fight would be trivial. When FA lands on the raid - especially back to back, the healing burden is absurd.

With one camp especially, the majority of the time, FA will not land on the raid, and you won't have to deal with the extra healing.

FA hits for 9,000 damage per second, starting at time zero. That means 18,000 resistable shadow damage in the first second. It is bad enough that it hits 3 people, but by spreading out evenly you're going to ensure that 6-8 people are basically getting reamed instead of 3. That being said, some guilds do do a full spread out successfully. Curse for instance, makes this strategy look very easy.

When the raid gets FA'ed you can typically HS/Pot - but then you'll tend to lose people on subsequent FA's.

 

Pyrul

I was under the impression that FA damage was based on proximity, ala Gruul shatter, therefore my reasoning. So apparently it was something I had to experience for myself.

However that still doesn't answer my beam question!

edit: Edited to reflect the wishes of the admins, I was merely using similar wording I had seen in un-infracted posts. Apologies as this is still unacceptable.

http://www.nascentguild.net/

 

Hand

Anyone else have trouble with the main tank eating a full saber lash for no real reason? Happened to me like twice over our night of attempts, but basically I would just be sitting there tanking him, not knocked in the air, with my two offtanks standing on top of me. None of my offtanks got ported, none of us moved, and then just out of nowhere for no real reason - BAM. 24k, dead. Anyone else had similar experiences?

 

dukes

Does no-one else use a druid healer with swiftmend on the MT in this encounter? We use one and it seems to help immensely with MT damage spikes - at least we haven't wiped since the first kill to the MT dying to "normal" damage (i.e. punt->lash instagib is the only thing) even with OT's being ported occaisionally due to Lash avoidance. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but we just never seem to experience continuous occurances of "lolyouwipe" for more than 2 attempts, even with FA ports on the raid. If it weren't for the fact that we've now had 4 repeat kills with it dying on the third go or quicker every time, I would say that it's just luck and that there's nothing different with our strategy compared to others, but it seems we're doing something right.

The things we generally wipe (or decide to reset) to are:
- Back to back FA ports on the raid (only ever seen this once I think, we've had it more than once but with shadow pot/healthstone/bandage and capped shadow res on everyone it's survivable by the majority)
- MT healers slowly dying off due to being crap at FA or having someone who can immune the damage being crap (paladin bubble running with them or mage blinking in a bad position, happens occaisionally)
- Instagib on the MT (lash in the air - generally one of the two wipes each week is due to this)
- Wicked beams for 60 seconds straight ending up with everyone slowly dying because of lack of heals because of mana issues (one-off, so far but could happen again).

And then theres always the MT charging the boss and getting instagibbed because he's a tool (happened once)

I'm also pretty sure that the beam has 20+ yard range on it - at least we had just as many problems (if not more) with people getting beamed with 3 camps before we changed strat.


Does anyone else get regular occurances of one or two people getting ported instead of three? I assume it's to do with pets/totems - we normally have 3-4 shamans and 3-4 pets in the raid, which stacks up for quite a lot of additional targets that are (I assume) immune to FA. This week we actually had someone ported on the MT only to find he was the only one ported, and had to quickly jump out of the way to avoid saber lash.

 

Ren

If you're getting 1-shot by Saber Lashes then you need to stand further back. Make sure the offtanks are in front of you to be safe.

 

Hand

Well thats the thing, this wasn't happening right on the pull or anything. This was happening mid fight, when nothing would change. 5 saber lashes would go through and hit all three of us, none of us would move, and then bam, one shot. Unless this is because my offtanks are randomly moving and then lying to me about it? Who knows.

EDIT: Actually this also happened once and I lived through it, and then they resumed as normal hitting all 3 of us without any of us moving. 7k, 7k, 7k, 21k, 7k, 7k. And none of us moved the entire time.

 

Skulli

PoM dont trigger from friendly and self damage at the moment.
Quote from the 2.2 patch: