For example, in TBC warriors got Endless Rage and Imp MS as the last pointers in arms, which are boring talents, not looking at a performance perspective, they're just plain.
In Improved MS's specific case, it's not taken because it's a boring talent, it's not taken because even from a performance perspective, there's nothing to recommend it.
Rage tends to be a greater limitation than cooldown for using MS, and the damage increase is damn near worthless since it only applies to the bonus damage, as opposed to the weapon damage.
I agree that shiny new abilities tend to be cooler than Improved X, but they also have the tendency to become more difficult to diagnose in terms of desired performance. Increasing all damage by 5% sounds very dull, but then you have Crusader Strike, which went from a 6 second cooldown to 10, then back to 6, and went from 100% weapon damage plus 40% spell damage to 110% weapon damage.
That old Titan grip and the new one are a bit different, less damage on old one, and less speed on new one. Ofcourse they might remove it entirely before WotLK like they did with TBC
The titans grip that was rumoured to be in TBC was part of a whole package of abilities for warriors, none of which made it into the game. So either they had a complete set of warrior abilities and then redid every single one, or Titan's grip was never in TBC. Wasn't it just a decent fake?
I just want cool (and useful stuff) rather than "oh this endpoint talent is awesome, it'll improve my melee damage by 5% which gives me X more dps in an endgame raid situation", instead you'd get something like Titan grip, which might give the same benefit but oh so bloody cool!
Ah, i think i can see what you want to say. You are not against 'Improved Oldability' per se, you just want to have it wrapped up in a sparkly and shiny way? Because, you see, Imp XYZ which just adds plain 5% to something is bad design, but not necessarily a bad talent. If the same talent would offer a net +5% result, but achieves this through a gameplay mechanism like a new added effect, a buff or debuff, a synergetic bonus in conjunction with other abilities or a change in basic abilities this would be ok? Of course, some 'Improved' talents are as bad as the original abilities itself. Improved Thorns being a nice example. It was (and still is) a horrible 'solution' to a badly implemented base ability. In the end, Improved Talents like Titanic Grip are only a new (and of course 'cool') way of saying 'adds +X% Damage'. But i see your point.
First post on these forums after a long time of lurking. But thought I'd come out of hiding to say that a potential list of spells/abilities can be found on the World of Raids forums here Worldofraids forums :: List of WotLK spells/talents. They seem pretty legit, though I won't link them as I'm not sure what the policy is on discussing leaked WotLK alpha info is here.
I'm quite excited to see how the warlock talents in demonology seem to open it up as raid viable, but of course we'll have to wait till we're all level 80 to check it out.
The titans grip that was rumoured to be in TBC was part of a whole package of abilities for warriors, none of which made it into the game. So either they had a complete set of warrior abilities and then redid every single one, or Titan's grip was never in TBC. Wasn't it just a decent fake?
If you mean that package of abilities posted on the previous page (http://i8.tinypic.com/25isw3c.jpg) then some of them are in. Imp whirlwind, Endless rage, and Vitality got changed heavily though. Or maybe someone faked it and got lucky. These abilities here that people have found are from the item/spell files from the WotLK client though, ofcourse none of them might make it to release anyway.
Originally Posted by Dioneirra
Ah, i think i can see what you want to say. You are not against 'Improved Oldability' per se, you just want to have it wrapped up in a sparkly and shiny way? Because, you see, Imp XYZ which just adds plain 5% to something is bad design, but not necessarily a bad talent. If the same talent would offer a net +5% result, but achieves this through a gameplay mechanism like a new added effect, a buff or debuff, a synergetic bonus in conjunction with other abilities or a change in basic abilities this would be ok? Of course, some 'Improved' talents are as bad as the original abilities itself. Improved Thorns being a nice example. It was (and still is) a horrible 'solution' to a badly implemented base ability. In the end, Improved Talents like Titanic Grip are only a new (and of course 'cool') way of saying 'adds +X% Damage'. But i see your point.
Yes! I know that not every new talent can be a new ability like that though, there has to be fillers. But that's pretty much my point!
First post on these forums after a long time of lurking. But thought I'd come out of hiding to say that a potential list of spells/abilities can be found on the World of Raids forums here Worldofraids forums :: List of WotLK spells/talents. They seem pretty legit, though I won't link them as I'm not sure what the policy is on discussing leaked WotLK alpha info is here.
I'm quite excited to see how the warlock talents in demonology seem to open it up as raid viable, but of course we'll have to wait till we're all level 80 to check it out.
Woah there's even newer ones up there that I didn't see. The rogue ability "Shadow Slash" looks fucking hilarious. And Safeguard on warriors is incredible.
Talk about exciting talents... Suprise Attacks, 6% more damage on specials (41p in combat rogues)... Whine all you want but nothing's going to change ;-)
Again though, this makes me think them fake. Given that other sites are reporting there are no rogue talents or abilities in the client files at all, how come some folks are packing them with all the the other stuff? Are there different clients around?
Also, re the warrior talents - sorry, but one or two similar named abilities or thematically similar doesn't mean they had any basis in reality. Look at that whole package of talents - you can't believe that at one point, Blizzard had warriors with windwalking, dual wielding two handed weapons, bloodfeast, furious throw etc, then threw them all out and replaced them with an entirely seperate set of talents? They got lucky picking a few obvious named talents, but those were definitely fake, and if they were fake back then, I'm suspicious about them re-appearing now.
Again though, this makes me think them fake. Given that other sites are reporting there are no rogue talents or abilities in the client files at all, how come some folks are packing them with all the the other stuff? Are there different clients around?
Also, re the warrior talents - sorry, but one or two similar named abilities or thematically similar doesn't mean they had any basis in reality. Look at that whole package of talents - you can't believe that at one point, Blizzard had warriors with windwalking, dual wielding two handed weapons, bloodfeast, furious throw etc, then threw them all out and replaced them with an entirely seperate set of talents? They got lucky picking a few obvious named talents, but those were definitely fake, and if they were fake back then, I'm suspicious about them re-appearing now.
A guy posted the raw text from the spell dbc file or something in that world of raids thread. There's no rogue stuff in that one though, stuff like safeguard is though.
And they might not have had it working. They could've just had a 41pt talent windwalking but it was nonfunctional and then they opted for removing it before beta or whatnot. In WotLK alpha they got a few nonworking talents but they're still there nontheless. So who knows.
For a few minutes, it was possible to download the downloader for the Alpha patcher directly from World of Warcraft Community Site. Then there was a patch from one version of 3.0alpha to another a few days earlier that can be freely downloaded. Once you have both, you can patch up a normal installation and then dissect anything you like. This is happening now and this is where all the information comes from.
Consider all of it real for now, though lots of changes will occur and lots of stuff will be removed completely. That's what the playtesting is for.
Note that class abilities that are never meant for players are also in the datafiles. NPC only abilities and such, so not everything you see will be usable. People with the alpha client but no F&F alpha invite cannot play, they can only try to dismantle the archives and look around what is in it.
There's definitely a couple of things there that I'd call credible, though some parts of it feels like "Everyone can now do everything!" (Which is probably a good thing in regards to challenging 10-man raids of course!). Specifically the Warlock talents which are I assume for Destruction that encourages them to use all their Destruction spells, as opposed to the curent mechanic where you basically limit yourself to only one spell type.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
If Druids are getting both an AoE insect swarm AND starfall, it makes me very very happy. I had always assumed that "bad AOE" was the tradeoff for the armor the form gives, but in raiding, it's made swapping a Warlock or Mage out for me occasionally problematic, since our only AoE spell was channeled and on a 1 minute cooldown.
Some of the talents on the big list are very redundant. They are the exact same talent from another tree but with a different name, or an improved version of a talent already existing in the same tree. Obviously everything is subject to change before release, but some of this seems very fake, especially due to all of the typos and repetition. And while Blizzard reads the forums, many of the talent names were taken directly from what people had posted in the "create your own talent" threads that were not actually started by a blue poster.
The fun/strange part about all this is that it's the alpha. Abilities are going to be changed a lot in between now and even the beta. They'll be changed even more before WotLK goes live. I wasn't in the previous alpha, but from what I remember they changed the talent trees around almost every patch as they were working their way through the classes. It's also difficult to interpret things, because the client doesn't give actual numbers for many abilities.
It's also really easy for false information to be slipped into the massive data dumps, because checking to see if it's real or not requires downloading the F&F Alpha and going through the mpq files. There is also a lot of discarded talents and abilities in those files - I know that every few months someone discovered old talents from the original WoW Alpha that were abandoned and report them as something possible for WotLK. Or monster/NPC abilities have been looked at as new talents or abilities (Holyform, for example).
For those wondering what exactly is going on - the Alpha client is available and has been found. The mpq files have been looked at, which give spell information, sounds, and graphics. No one who is actually in the Alpha is giving information, so no in-game screenshots or information.
The funny part about the balance druid talents listed there, is that they're exactly what balance druids should be able to do -now-. If those are true, it looks like they're going the AOE route for added moonkin utility, as opposed to crowd control. And none of it looks crazy (Except maybe that Typhoon power, that seems way too much fun to give to druids)
The healing to spell damage conversion talents could be extremely powerful. There are already certain healing pieces that are top 2/3 in slot for dps casters, that could really change the type of gear available to shadow priests and balance druids. Less gear going to waste is always a good thing.
To be honest, THIS is what I've been waiting for from WotlK. I want to hear about my class, not the new fotm DK class that I have no interest in. Just seeing potentially fake patch notes is what gets me excited about the expansion, and I doubt I'm the only one.
I wonder if we're going to see another change in caster itemization due to the Healing->Dmg conversion. It seems like 15% would be the "clean" number to go with to make the damage from a healing piece equate to that from a DPS piece. As it stands right now though, that change would likely give Moonkin/Spriests 115% Spelldamage from most gear, which seems like something that would lead to much complaining. But if +Dmg/Healing items were instead changed to just +Dmg, it would both alleviate the issues with class balance, and encourage the classes to use healing items for DPS (as the +healing is something a Balance Druid uses quite a bit, as an emergency healer.)
I wonder if we're going to see another change in caster itemization due to the Healing->Dmg conversion.
Blizzard tried various combinations of mechanics and itemization regarding spelldamage and healing in the past. I always found it somewhat sad that the hybrid itemization (that means, spelldamage and healing on the same item in different quantities) only left a few traces in the game and was no longer used besides the four tribal leatherworking pieces (the Windhawk Set and the Lv 65 Blue Breastplate). Maybe WotLK will change the attitude of Blizzard towards such offspec equipment, now that they have experience with spelldamage/healing conversions.
If these are fake, someone went to a ton of work. There was a link to the raw datamine and that looked legitimate.
It's quite possible Blizzard is just throwing out every cool and powerful thing they can think of at this point. It's Alpha, they aren't balancing things yet. Unlike some of the fake talents, these seem like they would also naturally go into trees as capstones. Titan's Grip for Arms, Bladestorm for Fury (giving it PvP viability), and Sword and Board for Protection (actually a very powerful talent and it looks like someone at Blizzard watched 300. )
Warlocks break down by tree as well. Metamorphasis is obviously the 51-point Demonology talent, with Atrocity going to Affliction and Decimate (unstoppable instant Soulfire, anyone?) in Destruction.
What does seem apparent is that they weren't kidding about the Death Knight being a disease class. They seem like they are being built as the hardest of hard counters for druids. In addition to about a billion other forms of disease damage, we have this:
Degeneration - Instantly attack the target, dealing $s1% weapon damage and inflicting a disease dealing ${$m2*7} over $48428d. This disease will corrupt an existing heal over time spell, removing it and dramatically increasing the damage dealt. While afflicted by this disease, other heal over time effects on the target will have no effect.
Paladins don't have any abilities past level 70 according to the notes, and yet there is some (rather odd) new Paladin ability listed there (which would never make it into the game for fear of mage QQ's that we're bubbling every spell they cast). Though I must say the "Enchant X- Expertise" is quite appealing.
Paladins don't have any abilities past level 70 according to the notes, and yet there is some (rather odd) new Paladin ability listed there. Though I must say the "Enchant X- Expertise" is quite appealing.
While some of it might be faked, it seems most is datamined from the leaked alpha client DBCs.
Also some of the stuff might be npc abilities mistaken for player ones, or stuff that is not (and may never be) active but still present in the files (like some skills removed in vanila alpha still being present in the live client files)
While some of it might be faked, it seems most is datamined from the leaked alpha client DBCs.
Also some of the stuff might be npc abilities mistaken for player ones, or stuff that is not (and may never be) active but still present in the files (like some skills removed in vanila alpha still being present in the live client files)
Just because someone says its from the data files doesn't make it true. For example:
Dual Wield Shields
Allows you to equip a Shield in the main hand weapon slot. Your melee attacks to damage equal to $s2% of your Shield Block Rating.
ZOMG I got it from the data files!!!
See?
I think waiting for the official talents to be released some time around beta (much like TBC) is a much better idea than assuming these are the real deal. Even if they are, there are some incredibly powerful abilities there (a warlock shadowbolt that goes through Bubble for starters) that will be changed.
Yea, I read the talent that allows warriors to use 2H weapons in just 1H and slow their attack speed. Seems unreasonable to me.
Then, there was Enchant Ring - +40 AP. That should make all meele DPS get Enchanting, +4/6 stats right now compared to +40 AP at 80, seems too good to be true.
Just because someone says its from the data files doesn't make it true. For example:
Dual Wield Shields
Allows you to equip a Shield in the main hand weapon slot. Your melee attacks to damage equal to $s2% of your Shield Block Rating.
ZOMG I got it from the data files!!!
See?
Difference being that you can download the official alpha client (from a downloader hosted on blizzard servers and using blizard's tracker no less, untill they take it down), get and learn to use the right tools and see this by yourself.
Yea, I read the talent that allows warriors to use 2H weapons in just 1H and slow their attack speed. Seems unreasonable to me.
Then, there was Enchant Ring - +40 AP. That should make all meele DPS get Enchanting, +4/6 stats right now compared to +40 AP at 80, seems too good to be true.
I heard Leatherworking was getting these drums that hasten your whole party, but they're probably fake since that would make everyone go Leatherworking.
05/20/08, 7:57 AM
Similar Threads
