Wrath of Lich King Stuff (was 'Blizzcon' thread) - Page 172

Siddown · 06/12/08, 8:45 PM

Originally Posted by Lamaros

Hit Rating, Critical Strike Rating, and Haste Rating now modify both
melee attacks and spells.

I wonder if Instant Poison on a Rogue's OH will surpass Deadly Poison in overall OH Damage if it can Crit due to these changes? Granted, you'll steal Stormstrike Debuffs, but it's an interesting proposition anyways.

Hildegard · 06/12/08, 8:49 PM

Hit Rating, Critical Strike Rating, and Haste Rating now modify both melee attacks and spells.

Means that rogue poisons will now crit regulary. This may make Instant poison superior to Deadly Poison. Does this mean that the auras of moonkins and ferals now stack ?

orcsgotbooty · 06/12/08, 8:51 PM

Originally Posted by Siddown

I wonder if Instant Poison on a Rogue's OH will surpass Deadly Poison in overall OH Damage if it can Crit due to these changes? Granted, you'll steal Stormstrike Debuffs, but it's an interesting proposition anyways.

Between this, windserpents, and elemental shaman, (along with if any boomkins will use wrath during their talented proc I haven't really done the math), isn't it time for stormstrike to just be changed to maybe 10% nature damage for 10 seconds? Instead of 20% on 2 attacks, especially since warlock curses don't add to nature damage at all.

Beliandra · 06/12/08, 8:54 PM

Originally Posted by Douglas

What I'm hoping they'll do is, 25-man Naxxramas will drop T7 gear, and 10-man Naxxramas will drop Sunwell-equivalent gear.

Judging by the leaked items we've seen, it's the mid-high-70's 5-man instances that will drop Sunwell-equivalent gear. Level 80 raid drops, even from 10-man Naxx, will be far beyond that.

Lamaros · 06/12/08, 8:59 PM

51663 Slap to the Face Delivers a face slap to all nearby players, stunning them. Targets affected by this ability can still communicate through the forums. Lasts until the next patch is released.

Whew!

Malan · 06/12/08, 9:04 PM

Originally Posted by Lamaros

51663 Slap to the Face Delivers a face slap to all nearby players, stunning them. Targets affected by this ability can still communicate through the forums. Lasts until the next patch is released.

Whew!

Welcome to EJ, enjoy your short stay.

Lamaros · 06/12/08, 9:10 PM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

Means that rogue poisons will now crit regulary. This may make Instant poison superior to Deadly Poison. Does this mean that the auras of moonkins and ferals now stack ?

I believe there will still be two different crit ratings "under the hood", just that on equipment it will be the same and then converted. I believe that talents which indicate +crit to spells/melee will only apply "under the hood". So talents will not apply to both in the same way.

Kaubel · 06/12/08, 9:11 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Welcome to EJ, enjoy your short stay.

This is a thread about an upcoming expansion that's currently 10 months old and 172 pages long. Think about that for a minute.

Also Lamaros has had an account here almost as long as you. HOW DO YOU LIKE YOUR CROW, MALAN? HUH? HUH??

flyingtoastr · 06/12/08, 9:15 PM

According to the notes on the wiki Elemental Shaman talents are now available as well (it makes no mention of any of the other classes/specs that are still missing though).

Sillia · 06/12/08, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by orcsgotbooty

Even when we first hit kara everyone already had S1weapons that were vastly superior (for melee at least).
The only weapons people seemed to ever be interested in were decapitator (because you can throw it) and the hunter weapon from opera. The rest everyone just wanted for offspec.

It isn't fair to compare content that's 11 months old to content that's new. Kara was new in TBC when it was released in january; by the time season 3 rolled around and S1 weapons went to honor, it had been out for 11 months. I don't mind old content getting outdated after it's had its time in the sun, I think it's perfectly fine that now the drops in kara aren't the awesome sauce that they were back in March or April of 07. However, when Karazhan was progression content for a lot of people, the drops there were useful. When ZA was progression content for a lot of people, the drops there weren't as useful. That's the discrepancy I've been talking about.

Pyralissa · 06/12/08, 9:23 PM

From the wiki they have a talent breakdown and I saw a few items that referenced rogue abilities.

51696 Waylay Rank 2 Your Ambush critical hits have a $h% chance to reduce the target's melee and ranged attack speed by $51693s1%, movement speed by $51693s2% and prevent item use for $51693d.

For example.

Copernicus · 06/12/08, 9:27 PM

Originally Posted by Malan

Welcome to EJ, enjoy your short stay.

It's a spell from the last alpha patch.

It looks like there are some Rogue and Shaman stuff added in on this one. I'm sure someone will have a breakdown and new talent trees set up within a few hours.

Hildegard · 06/12/08, 9:35 PM

I have no idea wheter this stuff is fake, so I only post a link to the wiki

New rogue talents:
Rogues: Rogue Skills

Pyralissa · 06/12/08, 9:42 PM

51669 Cut to the Chase Rank 5 Your Eviscerate and Envenom critical strikes have a $h% chance to refresh your Slice and Dice duration to its 5 combo point maximum.

Wow.

Exewut · 06/12/08, 9:42 PM

Originally Posted by Pyralissa

From the wiki they have a talent breakdown and I saw a few items that referenced rogue abilities.

51696 Waylay Rank 2 Your Ambush critical hits have a $h% chance to reduce the target's melee and ranged attack speed by $51693s1%, movement speed by $51693s2% and prevent item use for $51693d.

For example.

Does this mean that you can't drink potions or use clickies (pvp trinket)?
Also it seems like sap will work against everything now. It'll be quite powerfull then, especially if they are really mixing the different monster kinds in same instances to lower the 'lf3m CC' spam.

JulianMaiev · 06/12/08, 9:44 PM

The crit rating change makes Elemental Devastation quite a bit more attractive for enhancement shammies, almost to the point where I'd expect the talent to be scaled back.

Hildegard · 06/12/08, 9:46 PM

And enhancement shamans:
Shamans: 51 point talents and other stuff.

Yes the 51 looks like two spirit wolves.

Exewut · 06/12/08, 9:49 PM

All of the shaman talents are in there probably, they're just ordening stuff. A healing imbue is on the list for example:

51730 Earthliving Weapon Rank 1 Imbue the Shaman's weapon with earthen life. Increases healing done by $51940$s2 and each heal has a 20% chance to proc Earthliving on the target, healing an additional $51940s1 over $51940d. Lasts 30 minutes.

edit:
Ancestral Awakening - Requires 40 Points - 3 points - When you critically heal with your healing wave or lesser healing wave, you summon an ancestral spirit to aid you, instantly healing the lowest target within 40yds for 20%/40%/60% of the amount healed.

240% critical heals? And 60% of that healing will be 'smart' too. (basically, a crit will mean that you get an extra free, instant, no gcd, and on the lowest hp person in 40yards heal).
This could very well mean that crit will become an important stat for resto, and even further increase the similarities between elemental and resto gear.

Roywyn · 06/12/08, 9:49 PM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

Means that rogue poisons will now crit regulary. This may make Instant poison superior to Deadly Poison. Does this mean that the auras of moonkins and ferals now stack ?

From the wording, it'll only apply to rating. Not crit from int/agi, not talents, not other abilities that give specific crit.

For rogues, I can see a decent boost to instant poison. The major part however is not the critting but the resists.
For 99% spell hit, you need 202 rating - rogues are far beyond that (for melee hit). So you go from 83% hit to 99% hit, a 19.3% increase
From your armoury, you have 312 crit rating (I don't even know if that's high or low), granting you 14.1% crit. 14.1% spell crit would thus give you a 7.1% DPS boost on top of that.

Let's compare the poisons directly:
Deadly 7 - 45 damage every 3s for 12s, 30% proc. With 5 stacks and 5/5 vile, a 5-stack (in ideal never-dropping case) does 270 damage every 3s, 90 DPS.
Instant 7 - 146-194 damage, 20% proc. With 5/5 imp., a 1.4s OH, SnD, a little haste (3%-8%) and hit/dodge cap, you have 1 attack per second, dealing on average 30%*((146+194)/2) = 51 damage before hits/crits.
So, you wouldn't outdamage a perfect DP poison stack even with 100% crit, that would do 51*0.99*1.5 = 75.73 DPS only.

It will outdamage a DP stack if you have some other +100% haste buff on you though (think Hyjal).

Edit: Yes, I'm aware that a 5-stacked DP will fall off unless shiv'ed at 1s remaining. But with 99% spell hit, it's even less likely to fall off.
With 20% crit, 99% hit, you IP offhand will do 56 DPS. You need DP to fall off a lot to lower its DPS that far from 90 to below 56.

Edit: On Deadly Brew - hm, it depends on the numbers really. And where this talent will be. IP is at 2/3 of DP right now, so the talent would have to grant a 1/3 uptime of a DP 5-stack.
Definately makes it interesting for fights with different adds, where DP < IP because stuff dies too fast (Kael, Hyjal, trash, M'uru (?)).

Hildegard · 06/12/08, 9:58 PM

This talent could change that maybe. We don't know any numbers so it's hard to say:

51625 Deadly Brew Rank 1 "When you apply Instant, Wounding or Mind-Numbing poison to a target, you have a $h% chance to apply a second poison: Instant -> Deadly
Wounding -> Crippling
Mind-Numbing -> Crippling

Edit: The new rogue talents just look amazing. I can't wait to play out all the new trees. Just so much better than expected.

Addled · 06/12/08, 10:45 PM

Shaman 51 point talents from Shamans: 51 point talents and other stuff.

Spirit Link:
372 Mana - 40 yd range
Instance Cast
You link the friendly target with two nearby targets, causing 50% of the damage taken to be distributed to the linked targets. After 2200 damage, the link will sever.

Feral Spirit:
372 Mana - 30 yd range
Instant Cast - 2 Minute cooldown
Summons 2 spirit wolves under the command of the shaman, lasting 30 seconds.

Thunder:
Instant - 45 second cooldown
You call down a bolt of lighting, energizing you and damaging nearby enemies within 10 yards. Restores 5% mana to you and deals 595 to 679 nature damage to all nearby enemies, knocking them back 200 yards.

Side note: They are adding a weapon self buff for Resto Shaman and Elemental shaman; Resto shaman one is called Earthliving Weapon. They are also adding new ways of doing damage; Lava Burst.

My immediate impression is a bit underwhelmed, to say the least. Elemental 51 point is nice, Enhance 51 point is a ripoff of Force of Nature (I really hope that these spirit wolves have special abilities, like the mage Water Elemental being able to cast a 2nd FN), and resto is downright weak. 2200 damage is less than half of a normal boss's melee swing.

Weapon imbues are nice, I suppose. Don't have to waste money on mana oils now, depending on how good the imbue is.

Ancestral Awakening - Requires 40 Points - 3 points - When you critically heal with your healing wave or lesser healing wave, you summon an ancestral spirit to aid you, instantly healing the lowest target within 40yds for 20%/40%/60% of the amount healed.

OH God yes! Clearly this is proof Blizzard is trying to focus shamans into a raid healing niche; chain heal the raid, then when the MT needs extra healing, use HW and hope that you get a crit. Definitely makes crit a much better stat for resto shaman.

51475 Summon Air Elemental Summons an Air Elemental to accompany the caster until dismissed.

New pet for shamans? I don't see a duration or cooldown mentioned.

PsyBomb · 06/12/08, 10:52 PM

Slaughter from the Shadows Reduces the energy cost of your Backstab and Ambush abilities by 3/6/9/12/15.
Shadow Dance Instantly enter stealth and begin the Shadow Dance. For 9 sec you will reenter stealth every 3 secs. (2 min CD)

Looks like Blizz wants Subtlety to be able to DPS in PvE. Being able to trigger 4 Ambushes more or less at will is gross amounts of damage.

Ja7us · 06/12/08, 11:01 PM

Originally Posted by PsyBomb

Looks like Blizz wants Subtlety to be able to DPS in PvE. Being able to trigger 4 Ambushes more or less at will is gross amounts of damage.

Once every two minutes, though. That's not enough to make subtlety viable all by itself.

Promii · 06/12/08, 11:05 PM

Originally Posted by Addled

resto is downright weak. 2200 damage is less than half of a normal boss's melee swing.

From what I have read, 2200 is the rank 1 value which you can get at level 60.

Shakes · 06/12/08, 11:11 PM

I found this interesting ...

Blessing of the Eternals (35 points in Restoration) - 2 points - Increases the critical effect chance of your spells by 2%/4% and increases the bonus healing from your Earthliving Weapon by 5%/10%.

Earthliving weapon = healfury?