And paladins got 3, so I would say it's very likely that they don't follow a hard and fast "new skill every 2 levels" philosophy.
Technically, paladins got Crusader Aura, Righteous Defense, Spiritual Attunement, Seal of Vengeance/Blood, and Avenging Wrath. Not all terribly interesting, but they were all "new." Warriors, likewise, got their tactical-mastery style rage conservation ability: Stance Mastery - Thottbot: World of Warcraft.
Technically, paladins got Crusader Aura, Righteous Defense, Spiritual Attunement, Seal of Vengeance/Wrath, and Avenging Wrath. Not all terribly interesting, but they were all "new." Warriors, likewise, got their tactical-mastery style rage conservation ability: Stance Mastery - Thottbot: World of Warcraft.
Hmm, that's true I suppose, I discounted the lower level abilities. Perhaps Blizzard really does have a rigid plan for the number of new abilities per class.
Given the enormous range in effectiveness on those abilities, from should-have-been-in-since-day-1 (RD and SA) to playstyle-changing (lifebloom, steady shot) to farming tools (flight form - not that it isn't awesome, but it has zero raiding or PvP impact) to useless (anesthetic poison), even if it is a hard rule I would say that the breadth of the category of "new ability" makes any such numerical boundary pretty meaningless.
Warriors are actually the only outlier, every other class got 5 new non-talented abilities.
These classes got 4 new abilities:
Warrior: Victory Rush, Spell Reflection, Commanding Shout, Intervene
I wouldn't be surprised to see Blizzard follow the same idea of roughly the same number of new spells per class (excluding Death Knights of course).
Actually, Warrior's aren't an outlier. They also got Stance Mastery at lvl 20, just as Paladins first got Spiritual Attunement at lvl 18. So all classes got 5 abilities, they can just also appear below the level of the expansion. So I think from this all classes would get the same amount of new abilities.
Edit: And I didn't see someone bring up this point a bit earlier. Bleh to me for reading too quickly. ><
Actually, Warrior's aren't an outlier. They also got Stance Mastery at lvl 20, just as Paladins first got Spiritual Attunement at lvl 18. So all classes got 5 abilities, they can just also appear below the level of the expansion. So I think from this all classes would get the same amount of new abilities.
Edit: And I didn't see someone bring up this point a bit earlier. Bleh to me for reading too quickly. ><
Hah, completely forgot about that since I've been used to having it for so long on my warrior. Thanks.
So yeah, every class got exactly 5 new abilities at launch (Mages also technically got Ritual of Refreshment, but that was long after release). It is pretty safe to say they will continue the trend as it worked reasonably well.
Just in response to the Camouflage comments; if you pick apart the tooltip delicately, the words "instantly" and "fade into" suggest the following:
- The debuff removal factor is instant.
- The invisibility isn't. Note the "fade into" part; consistent with the Mage invisibility spell.
Someone a few pages back was suggesting that they were hitting memory limits on bag size. I just realized that Foror's Crate of Endless Resist Gear Storage would imply that they can do at least 36 slots per bag.
Rare Drop (Blue)
BoE
Plate/Hands
997 Armor
+31 Strength
+48 Stamina
Equip: Increases your dodge rating by 21.
Equip: Increases your parry rating by 24.
Rare Drop (Blue)
BoP
Leather/Helm
398 Armor
+63 Agi
+63 Stam
Equip: Increases attack power by 92.
Equip: Your attacks ignore 245 of your opponent’s armor.
Requires Level 75
POST;
Since a few of you are probably wondering… Work on Dalaran is going really well right now, and we currently estimate we’ll be opening it up for testing in around mid-July.
Well, if we can use armor as a reliable measurement, the level 72 req blue gloves are equivalent to ilvl 127 epics; whilst the level 75 req blue hat is equivalent to an ilvl 156 epic. By which reckoning, we should expect Kil'jaeden loot to be eclipsed round about level 76 required blues.
Camouflage (Level 68, 5 min cooldown) - You Camouflage, causing you to blend in with your surroundings. Instantly removes all physical and spell debuffs, and you fade into an improved invisibility state. Camouflage will break after the you deal damage. Lasts until cancelled.
What interests me most about this, if true, is that the invisibility only breaks when damage is dealt. Pop your trinkets and open with an Aimed Shot.
My main concern is whether all hunters will have to trade in their pets for ones which can Prowl. It's all very well the hunter being camouflaged but the Ravager (or whatever level 80 pet is in vogue) following him around is a bit of a giveaway ...
What interests me most about this, if true, is that the invisibility only breaks when damage is dealt. Pop your trinkets and open with an Aimed Shot.
My main concern is whether all hunters will have to trade in their pets for ones which can Prowl. It's all very well the hunter being camouflaged but the Ravager (or whatever level 80 pet is in vogue) following him around is a bit of a giveaway ...
The tooltip fairly clearly says 'Invisibility', so it seems likely that it'll work like mage invisibility and you'll not be able to see anyone who can't see you. The 'breaks on damage' could be there to cover attacks on people with See Invis on, traps, and (perhaps) attacks by a pet on aggressive.
The most likely use for Penance is that it's intended to put up Grace/Inspiration. Inspiration is obvious enough: 3 ticks, each of which can apparently crit, so Inner Focus/Penance becomes a fairly effective way of forcing an Inspiration proc (~78% chance with 15% base crit). If each tick applies Grace, then every 10 seconds you can drop a full stack on someone; this has obvious PvP application, and certainly can't hurt in PvE.
It can't really replace GHeal, since it has a cooldown, it's channeled (so no canceling), and I somehow doubt its effective coefficient per second will be better than GHeal + Divine Fury. It's not a great PvP spell because of pushback and interrupts, although it MIGHT synergize with Persecution (well, you'd have to either cancel it on a proc or it'd have to be set up not to break Persecution somehow).
Well, if we can use armor as a reliable measurement, the level 72 req blue gloves are equivalent to ilvl 127 epics; whilst the level 75 req blue hat is equivalent to an ilvl 156 epic. By which reckoning, we should expect Kil'jaeden loot to be eclipsed round about level 76 required blues.
This is probably true for pure ilvl value, but you have to take good itemization to account as well. The sunwell items are mostly extremely well itemized, for example Duplitious Guise has 4 dps stats and 2 sockets (1 meta, 1 red), while the lvl 75 required blue item has only 3 dps stats and no sockets. Even if the blue is close in item budget value, it's still far behind in relative value.
Not all of the Northrend items will be poorly itemized, though. If there's a dungeon4 set it'll probably have sockets and a better spread of stats. Level 80 instance drops would then be superior to Sunwell drops in both itemvalue and in relative value. This would put the gear leap at about the same or a little greater than from pre-BC, without the added effect of cheaper stamina.
This is probably true for pure ilvl value, but you have to take good itemization to account as well. The sunwell items are mostly extremely well itemized, for example Duplitious Guise has 4 dps stats and 2 sockets (1 meta, 1 red), while the lvl 75 required blue item has only 3 dps stats and no sockets. Even if the blue is close in item budget value, it's still far behind in relative value.
Not all of the Northrend items will be poorly itemized, though. If there's a dungeon4 set it'll probably have sockets and a better spread of stats. Level 80 instance drops would then be superior to Sunwell drops in both itemvalue and in relative value. This would put the gear leap at about the same or a little greater than from pre-BC, without the added effect of cheaper stamina.
IIRC, the only two-hander that surpassed the Might of Menethil in raw DPS were Kara epics, BS crafted epics (expensive at release) and Arena epics (again expensive), all of which could only be acquired at level 70.
Of course, the relative value of most level 70 blue dungeon drops was probably higher given sockets and cheaper STA, but it seems to me the absolute item level is catching up faster in WOTLK.
Could this be their way of resetting gear and/or emulating the effect of adjusted STA costs? That is, massively inflate the stats on everything (Sunwell-level at 75) so that Outland stuff goes out of style significantly sooner.
My guess is that the items were just quickly slapped together and will undergo some tuning later. Same with the spells and their massively inflated mana values.
IIRC, the only two-hander that surpassed the Might of Menethil in raw DPS were Kara epics, BS crafted epics (expensive at release) and Arena epics (again expensive), all of which could only be acquired at level 70.
Of course, the relative value of most level 70 blue dungeon drops was probably higher given sockets and cheaper STA, but it seems to me the absolute item level is catching up faster in WOTLK.
There were no blue weapons surpassing Might, but there were plenty of 93.2dps blue 2-handers, which is only 2 dps lower than might of Menethil. Some of those blue weapons only required lvl 68 to use as well. Kel'thuzad also dropped higher quality weapons than the rest of Naxxramas. Compare Might with the Corrupted Ashbringer for example, a 90dps weapon surpassed by the high level blue items in BC. It was also the 2nd highest dps weapon in the game before BC.
The normal 2-handers from Naxxramas ranged from only 80 to 85dps, and were easily matched fairly early in BC. The ring of blood quest chain is doable at lvl 65 and gives an 81.5 dps weapon. This is only slightly weaker in comparison to the midlevel blue screenshots we've been seeing for WotLK. A lot of the blue weapons in BC had inferior stats otherwise like a fast speed for example. We're seeing some of the same things here, with high level blues having inefficient speeds or stat distributions.
The most likely use for Penance is that it's intended to put up Grace/Inspiration. Inspiration is obvious enough: 3 ticks, each of which can apparently crit, so Inner Focus/Penance becomes a fairly effective way of forcing an Inspiration proc (~78% chance with 15% base crit). If each tick applies Grace, then every 10 seconds you can drop a full stack on someone; this has obvious PvP application, and certainly can't hurt in PvE.
It can't really replace GHeal, since it has a cooldown, it's channeled (so no canceling), and I somehow doubt its effective coefficient per second will be better than GHeal + Divine Fury. It's not a great PvP spell because of pushback and interrupts, although it MIGHT synergize with Persecution (well, you'd have to either cancel it on a proc or it'd have to be set up not to break Persecution somehow).
I think a great deal, if not every priest that has played a 5v5 or even 3v3 with an offensive spec (43/5/13) as a backup healer would say that spec is undoubtedly more fun, interesting, and situationally powerful than 4x/1x/0. The current situation is you put 18 points in holy to really be able to top someone off by yourself, which is fine and does make sense conceptually, but 4 of those points are 100% useless, another is questionable, two more are mediocre, and overall it just feels like such a waste of points compared to the disc tree, where almost every tier has useful things to drop points into and actual CHOICES based on your playstyle... it's also the only situation I know of where a class can drop nearly 20 points into a talent tree to only improve a single spell (am I wrong?). Improved psychic scream, skillfull blackout procs, and well timed mind flay abuse (absolutely beautiful on ruins of lordaeron) add a level of depth to the offensive side of the pvp healing spec which otherwise just has a shallow offering of fears and mana burns.
Penance is not a gheal replacement, it's a playstyle option. Will we see 51x/18/0 priests solo healing thier teams still? Surely yes, and I see no reason why it isn't a strong contender for the cookie cutter spec. But if penance is *just* powerful enough, it will let 53/5/13 be viable as a solo-healer spec, which just plain looks super fun, even letting you juggle improved spirit taps and such. The 10 second cooldown? Penanace> shield> renew> PoM> is already nearly 8 seconds of casting and gcd's.
This could be the restokin option for priests. Embrace it.
Going off on a different topic a bit, but it's just occurred to me that there are no shammy talents geared towards spirit regen (something along the lines of "Allows xx% of your mana regen to continue while casting") like priests and druids have.
Have I missed something or is it looking like shammies (and probably Pallies) are going still going to be looking to mp5 instead of spirit for their mana regen? Seems strange in light of all the gear consolidation talk...
My guess is that the items were just quickly slapped together and will undergo some tuning later. Same with the spells and their massively inflated mana values.
I agree. It was plainly obvious that very little human work went into creating TBC epics on release. Kara epics sometimes had a total of 3 stats more then their blue equivalent. Not only that, but in many cases, the pre raid gear had really good itemization, or in the case of Frozen shadoweave, the best in slot for 2+ tiers.
I am confident Blizzard will make Naxx 10 man gear a worthy upgrade over the blue/heroic mix. But I am somewhat pessimistic on how a one tier upgrade over the 10 man will pan out. Don't they have to constantly widen the ilvl tier gap to maintain the same relative power between T4-T5-T6 compared to T7-T8-T9?
It's also the only situation I know of where a class can drop nearly 20 points into a talent tree to only improve a single spell (am I wrong?).
Yes. Raiding warlocks will go 21 pts into demonology for the sole purpose of increasing Shadow Bolt or Incinerate damage (depending on which flavor of lock they are). The talents picked up along the way are moderately useful, but if Demonic Sacrifice was not exactly where it is now, you'd see a vastly different talent spec for warlocks.
LvL 30 mounts (lvl 40 mounts useable at 30) should mean that the lvl 30-39 twink bracket just got a lot more interesting.
Or less interesting, if you're a druid.
Originally Posted by Ja7us
You're out of your mind. Zero raid viability? The ability to instantly drop almost any detrimental encounter debuff (Burn, Static Charge, Arcane Buffet... the list goes on and on) is positively huge.
Gurtogg's bloodboil would be affected by this ability.
So it's definitely got raid viability, much like the paladin bubbles.
Originally Posted by archeron
Found this on wotlkwiki, posted by admin:
There were also a few more items listed on DeathKnight.info in regards to that subject.
It'd be nice to see a few more weapons to compare DPS with, but 101.9 for 1H is already a good start.
Also, if the current itemization trend holds true in WotLK, then we'll be looking at 162 DPS epic one handers at the endgame in the expansion.
I've made a topic on the weapon DPS about it : Random Ravings of Warcraft: WotLK Itemization
-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.
Going off on a different topic a bit, but it's just occurred to me that there are no shammy talents geared towards spirit regen (something along the lines of "Allows xx% of your mana regen to continue while casting") like priests and druids have.
Have I missed something or is it looking like shammies (and probably Pallies) are going still going to be looking to mp5 instead of spirit for their mana regen? Seems strange in light of all the gear consolidation talk...
Warlocks needed the 30% spirit regen because current (and future) Mage and Priest itemization includes SPI. If Warlocks are to share, they need to benefit from SPI too.
In the same way, Feral Druids needed the 10% AP from HOTW (as opposed to STR) because current Rogue itemization includes AP.
And so on ...
However, current Shaman itemization does not include SPI. It does, however, include (spell) crit rating for the Elementals. If the Restos were to share, they need some benefit from crit, which they are in fact gaining from new "HOT the target whenever your heals crit" talent as well as Elemental Focus now including (Lesser) Healing Wave.
06/18/08, 8:55 PM
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