Wrath of Lich King Stuff (was 'Blizzcon' thread) - Page 203

Douglas · 07/03/08, 5:27 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

Tradeskills aren't tied to char level, besides the minimum level thing. You can "test" all of smithing even as a lvl 70 on live, and the same will be true with inscription.

What you cannot test with high-level characters is the impact of those trade skills on the low-level characters.

Consider a player with a single 15th level character. What is the impact on their power level if they have appropriately-skilled-up Inscription, compared with appropriately-skilled-up Enchanting or Alchemy or Leatherworking?

In any event, they've now told us how they're selecting participants -- completely random drawing from the people who opt in. So they're apparently not going to be selecting in favor of people with higher-level characters. (If this is like TBC beta, this means we're going to be getting a ton of complaints about the lack of premades soon...)

Hildegard · 07/03/08, 6:12 PM

Beta and Spoilers - are there any rules ?

With the upcoming Beta I would like to know, whether Spoilers of instances, areas such are allowed in this thread. Our raid decided not to take a look at this stuff at all to really enjoy the levelling and to play polished and new content.

Emeraude · 07/03/08, 6:19 PM

People generally don't hold back on spoilers once NDAs are lifted. I know I've had 3-4 lore conversations buried in this thread over leaked information.

Unity · 07/03/08, 6:31 PM

A high level character may also miss materiels that are inappropriate for the skill level since they'll probably be just buying mats.

Talgog · 07/03/08, 7:05 PM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

Beta and Spoilers - are there any rules ?

With the upcoming Beta I would like to know, whether Spoilers of instances, areas such are allowed in this thread. Our raid decided not to take a look at this stuff at all to really enjoy the levelling and to play polished and new content.

It's an open beta. Considering that Alpha material has been discussed here so long as it wasn't in direct violation of NDA, you can expect to see everything public in beta and most datamined material pop up.

PSGarak · 07/03/08, 7:08 PM

The question wasn't about class mechanics and whatnot, it was about instance spoilers. Even when the NDA is lifted, will we have the same spoiler policy we had about sunwell for all instances, or shall that only apply to raids?

Putts · 07/03/08, 7:56 PM

Common courtesy would suggest that people use the [spoiler] tags when it comes to major plot points and/or scripted events, especially at the very beginning of the beta, when such information is not yet widespread.

zoombini · 07/03/08, 10:12 PM

the lich king wiki put up a bunch of alpha shots today, including this piece of loot . . .

http://wotlkwiki.info/up/4.jpg

Chestpiece of the northern lights
Plate
1753 armor
52 sta
55 int
47 spell power
12 mp5

Looks like holy pallys are getting plate with +int, and they're still budgeting for mp5 instead of spirit.

flyingtoastr · 07/03/08, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by zoombini

the lich king wiki put up a bunch of alpha shots today, including this piece of loot . . .

http://wotlkwiki.info/up/4.jpg

Chestpiece of the northern lights
Plate
1753 armor
52 sta
55 int
47 spell power
12 mp5

Looks like holy pallys are getting plate with +int, and they're still budgeting for mp5 instead of spirit.

We went over this a few pages ago when another picture was listed. As long as there are no pally changes in there is no reason for itemization to change. It is a lot easier to change a few drops (see patch 2.4 ret loot) after the talents are released than to screw over pretty much every paladin playing with itemization that doesn't work with them.

TL;DR- its' still too early to call anything.

Exewut · 07/03/08, 10:48 PM

The armor on that piece is interesting. Lvl 70 blue's usually have 1164 armor on them (example: [Breastplate of the Bold], ilvl 115) the only plate chest items that have 1753 armor on them are ilvl 141 epics ( like: [Chestplate of Stoicism]), the item in that screenshot seems to have similar stats too.

Sadly the old ilvl formulla seems out of date, Formulas:Item values - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft really doesn't add up anymore

otherwise we would be able to make a better comparisation.

Bullshot · 07/04/08, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Talgog

It's an open beta. Considering that Alpha material has been discussed here so long as it wasn't in direct violation of NDA, you can expect to see everything public in beta and most datamined material pop up.

I don't think he was asking about the NDA. I think he was wondering if a rule like the one which was put in place once Sunwell was released which forbid the discussion of boss mechanics till certain criteria were met would be implemented for the WotLK Beta thread.

Personally, since end-game raid encounters will most likely not be provided for testing by Blizzard I wouldn't worry too much about encounter spoilers. 5-man dungeon encounter spoilers shouldn't matter too much I think. Lore spoilers however is a different matter. I'd hope that when people discuss them, they'd do so with spoiler tags. This is of course assuming that no embargo is placed on discussing the beta details. I'd personally prefer nothing of the sort since this forum is one of the very few where you can have intelligent discussions about changes that would be implemented. And since it is known that Blizzard does spend at least a little time reading the posts here, it'd be useful to have some constructive feedback for them as well.

Losar · 07/04/08, 2:34 AM

It's way too early to even consider when the highest level you could be is like 75.

The majority of people in BC never saw past maiden/curator in kara and Gruul was killed twice, Mag never killed once. Unless they really do have people test Naxx, of which I guarantee there will be some recycling, there will not be much to spoil compared to BC as far as raiding goes.

Mr. Crow · 07/04/08, 4:15 AM

Originally Posted by flyingtoastr

Or maybe by tying the betas to accounts they are trying to cut down on the amount of beta keys that are sold via ebay and other websites like what happened with TBC. For TBC beta you could see a lot of "I'll sell you this key for $200" since anyone could use the key. If it is based solely on accounts you would have to sell all your account info to pass along a Wrath beta, making it a lot less likely to happen.

I wonder how this system will work with the Beta Keys that were handed out at BlizzCon... though since they've never done this before, who's to say?

Given this step, anyone want to speculate on when the open beta will start?

Grizlor · 07/04/08, 4:41 AM

They need to just give rogues and hunters 2 AP (yes, even RAP) for 1 strength already. It would prevent so many itemization headaches and a lot of bitching.

bellator · 07/04/08, 5:49 AM

Originally Posted by Exewut

The armor on that piece is interesting. Lvl 70 blue's usually have 1164 armor on them (example: [Breastplate of the Bold], ilvl 115) the only plate chest items that have 1753 armor on them are ilvl 141 epics ( like: [Chestplate of Stoicism]), the item in that screenshot seems to have similar stats too.

Sadly the old ilvl formulla seems out of date, Formulas:Item values - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft really doesn't add up anymore

otherwise we would be able to make a better comparisation.

I think you are jumping to conclusions a little too early. From that screenshot we only have the 'Requires Level' of the item not the 'Ilvl'. Whilst the majority of 'requires level 70' blues in tbc have an item level 115, the relationship between 'Required Level' and 'Item Level' is a one to many relationship. This could mean that the item level and thus the armour on this 'requires level 70' blue could be much higher and not break the ilvl formula.

For example, if you do a wowhead search for all blue items with 'requires level 60', you will see the maximum ilvl item is 74 for all pre tbc items, but for post tbc items the maximum is 85.

The formula that will definately change is that of 'minimum level requirement based on ilvl', but this was different pre/post tbc so will no doubt change pre/post wrath.

This said, there will of course be some changes with formulas surrounding ilvl since +dmg/healing is being replaced with spellpower.

Hildegard · 07/04/08, 6:07 AM

Originally Posted by Bullshot

I don't think he was asking about the NDA. I think he was wondering if a rule like the one which was put in place once Sunwell was released which forbid the discussion of boss mechanics till certain criteria were met would be implemented for the WotLK Beta thread.

Personally, since end-game raid encounters will most likely not be provided for testing by Blizzard I wouldn't worry too much about encounter spoilers. 5-man dungeon encounter spoilers shouldn't matter too much I think. Lore spoilers however is a different matter. I'd hope that when people discuss them, they'd do so with spoiler tags. This is of course assuming that no embargo is placed on discussing the beta details. I'd personally prefer nothing of the sort since this forum is one of the very few where you can have intelligent discussions about changes that would be implemented. And since it is known that Blizzard does spend at least a little time reading the posts here, it'd be useful to have some constructive feedback for them as well.

I would love to discuss the mechanics, talents and all that stuff, but the "WOW" goes away if you know whats gonna happen. I had no idea how Ragnaros looked when I first encountered him and it was truly epic. I read too many spoilers on Nefarian and really destroyed a lot of the epicness by that.

I love the feeling to enter instances and not knowing at all what awaits me. It's ok to discuss all this of course, but I will then just stop reading this post or an beta post. And so I hope to get an answer whether rules will be applied.

Roywyn · 07/04/08, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by Exewut

The armor on that piece is interesting. Lvl 70 blue's usually have 1164 armor on them (example: [Breastplate of the Bold], ilvl 115) the only plate chest items that have 1753 armor on them are ilvl 141 epics ( like: [Chestplate of Stoicism]), the item in that screenshot seems to have similar stats too.

Sadly the old ilvl formulla seems out of date, Formulas:Item values - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft really doesn't add up anymore

otherwise we would be able to make a better comparisation.

Yes, I tried fiddling with weapon DPS values before and it didn't really work.
The scaling was a bit more than linear for the BC item level range, so it wasn't possible to extrapolate from what we know so far.

But the new level 70 gear in WotLK currently is set around ilvl 141 epics. I.e. badge gear and BT/Hyjal gear.
The level 71 101.8 DPS dagger suggested that, and you found that armour fits that progression as well.

Live Alpha Leaks - Wotlkwiki

They have listed the level 71 items from the Nexus with datamined vendor value and item level:
The blue items have an ilvl of 159.
Their armour/DPS is that of an ilvl 144 epic (if you compare them with existing items).
There is also a level 75 necklace with an ilvl of 171. 4 levels higher, 12 ilvls higher.

So, it seems they kept the 3-ilvl-per-level gear progression.

The level 75 axe has 141.9 DPS.
Ilvl 154 epics have 140.4, ilvl 164 epics have 148.7 DPS.
That would make the level 75 axe an epic ilvl 156 equivalent. The level 71 dagger was an epic ilvl 144 equivalent.
So we have a DPS scaling of "3 epic ilvl per level", and an item level scaling of "3 ilvl per level".

This would also make level 70 gear equivalent to ilvl 141 - badge and BT/Hyjal drops.

Assuming this scaling continues to level 80 like it did in BC, we have level 80 blues with an item level of 186, and it is equivalent to BC epics with an item level of 171.
An estimated 7 ilvl or half a tier above Kil'jaeden gear.

TLDR:
In WotLK, level 70 blues are like badge/BT/Hyjal gear, and level 80 blues seem to end up 0.5 tiers above Kil'jaeden loot.

Edit: For weapons at 80, that would mean +335 damage, +633 healing (equivalent, since +heal gets scrapped), 125 DPS one-handers, 163 DPS 2-handers, 111 DPS bows (unless ammo gets changed, see Thori'dal).

Alcemon · 07/04/08, 8:30 AM

According to the latest batch of leaks, major revelations will be given in WotLK regarding the Infinite Dragonflight story arc.

Since Sunwell, it seems that they are trying to weave the lore a lot more into the game (which personally I find quite refreshing).

Exewut · 07/04/08, 8:34 AM

Originally Posted by bellator

I think you are jumping to conclusions a little too early. From that screenshot we only have the 'Requires Level' of the item not the 'Ilvl'. Whilst the majority of 'requires level 70' blues in tbc have an item level 115, the relationship between 'Required Level' and 'Item Level' is a one to many relationship. This could mean that the item level and thus the armour on this 'requires level 70' blue could be much higher and not break the ilvl formula.

For example, if you do a wowhead search for all blue items with 'requires level 60', you will see the maximum ilvl item is 74 for all pre tbc items, but for post tbc items the maximum is 85.

The formula that will definately change is that of 'minimum level requirement based on ilvl', but this was different pre/post tbc so will no doubt change pre/post wrath.

This said, there will of course be some changes with formulas surrounding ilvl since +dmg/healing is being replaced with spellpower.

Um I know that, my point was that the ilvl formulla in itself is broken and that it cannot be applied anymore to even TBC blue's to find their respective ilvl.
It seems however that I have made a mistake on my maths last night and that the ilvl formulla is still correct.

formulla:

Green Plate Chest AC = (ilvl-44) * 8.9 + 428
Rare Armor Value = Green Armor Value * 1.1

If you would apply the old ilvl formulla to the first blue chest ([Breastplate of the Bold]) that the results seem close enough to be correct:
1165,89 = ((115-44)*8,9+428)*1,1

Compare that to the new chest that has 1753 armor and can be worn at 70:
174,9703779 = (1753/1,1-428)/8,9+44

So basically we jump from ilvl 115 blue's to ilvl 175 ones, meaning a 60 ilvl increase in power. This blue has the same budget as a 142 ilvl epic right now. Which is (almost) exactly the same as [Chestplate of Stoicism] which is an ilvl 141 badge reward.

Rare:           ilvl = ItemSlotValue * 1.6 + 1.84 
Epic:            ilvl = ItemSlotValue * 1.3 + 1.30

Rare: 175 = isl*1,6 + 1,84
Epic: ? = isl*1,3 + 1,30
<=>
1,3 + 1,3*(175-1,84)/1,6 = 141,9925

Compare that to the TBC launch difference:

[Knight-Captain's Lamellar Breastplate] ilvl 68 for a lvl 60 pvp reward
[Light-Touched Breastplate] ilvl 85 for a hellfire reward

Conclusion: This leads me to believe that for a person that has badge rewards, the jump from TBC to WotLK will be about the same as someone that had the blue/epic pvp set in classic when he ventured into hellfire and started smacking some demons around. It will however be different for the ones amongst us that are wearing endgame purples.

Tacitus · 07/04/08, 8:51 AM

wotlkwiki and DK.info just posted a new batch of screens and look who's returning: http://deathknight.info/wp-content/u...2008/07/q2.jpg

Ooh and according to this: http://deathknight.info/wp-content/u...2008/07/q3.jpg we'll find out the leader of the Infinite Dragonflight!

Hopefully the big boss and not just the one leading the charge into the shrine.

Tyrian · 07/04/08, 9:14 AM

Ive always wanted to meet Alexstrasza ingame - so this is quite exciting. Although I was really hoping we'd see her in dragon-form at some stage too. It would fit nicely if Alexstrasza was 'the adal' of the expansion, given her power and importance to all the story arcs going on there, being the Life Binder. Dragons, death, destruction etc etc

Ja7us · 07/04/08, 10:45 AM

Interesting - Those screenshots show Itharius <Ambassador to the Green Flight>, Chromie <Ambassador to the Bronze Flight> and Nalice <Ambassador to the Black Flight>. Itharius and Chromie are already in-game NPCs associated with those flights - but who's Nalice?

Axl_Stukov · 07/04/08, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Ja7us

Interesting - Those screenshots show Itharius <Ambassador to the Green Flight>, Chromie <Ambassador to the Bronze Flight> and Nalice <Ambassador to the Black Flight>. Itharius and Chromie are already in-game NPCs associated with those flights - but who's Nalice?

Probably just someone new since every Black Dragon we've met, we've killed. Or almost everyone, there is Lady Sinestra who visits the Illidari at the Netherwing Ledge that they could have used.

Talgog · 07/04/08, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Axl_Stukov

Probably just someone new since every Black Dragon we've met, we've killed. Or almost everyone, there is Lady Sinestra who visits the Illidari at the Netherwing Ledge that they could have used.

Also Baron Sablemane.

Nalice is certainly a new character.

flyingtoastr · 07/04/08, 1:45 PM

Those are some pretty cool pictures. The only thing I'm a little miffed about is Krasus. He deserves better than the generic blood elf model (I would hope it is just a placeholder though).