Wrath of Lich King Stuff (was 'Blizzcon' thread) - Page 21

Earthhoof · 08/04/07, 2:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dejablue

What are the ramifications?

In short? We don't know. I have difficulty imagining that Hero classes will obsolete the core classes. They have been quoted as saying that they want to make sure that various specs get a chance to do things in a little different way, and that there's love coming for some of the underrepresented specs.

But, really, we have no idea because we know next to nothing about Death Knights. So I am not worried yet. I am mostly excited - yes, about leveling, because 60-70 was a lot of fun - but also about new abilities, new talents, new dungeons, new zones and what looks like a lot of new storyline. Plus, of course, new raiding and advancement. I think it's a stretch to say that the expansion contains "nothing" but the new class (which you are claiming to be "rushed" based on nothing other than your own worries).

So, mostly, chill out. At least wait to freak out until there's more information.

Jebraltar · 08/04/07, 2:09 PM

Deal with it when it happens. Talk to guildies beforehand, try to get a plan together, but it is much, much too early to get too frantic about this at the moment anyways.

I also strongly suspect that raid size will be bumped up to 30 people for the expansion in order to better balance classes in raids.

Dejablue · 08/04/07, 2:22 PM

Originally Posted by Earthhoof

In short? We don't know. I have difficulty imagining that Hero classes will obsolete the core classes. They have been quoted as saying that they want to make sure that various specs get a chance to do things in a little different way, and that there's love coming for some of the underrepresented specs.

But, really, we have no idea because we know next to nothing about Death Knights. So I am not worried yet. I am mostly excited - yes, about leveling, because 60-70 was a lot of fun - but also about new abilities, new talents, new dungeons, new zones and what looks like a lot of new storyline. Plus, of course, new raiding and advancement. I think it's a stretch to say that the expansion contains "nothing" but the new class (which you are claiming to be "rushed" based on nothing other than your own worries).

So, mostly, chill out. At least wait to freak out until there's more information.

I am not freaking out. I could care less myself, I just don't think I will play, personally. I am not interested in a DK in the slightest, except how it effects my guild and possibly my role the latter we don't know. We can talk about and have experienced squeezing another class into our raid makeup, albeit we were squeezing 40 men into 25 at the time as well.

Do you agree with maintenance of the 25 man raid cap?

What other addons would you like to see them implement as a default?

In short, lets talk about raids

Originally Posted by Jebraltar

Deal with it when it happens. Talk to guildies beforehand, try to get a plan together, but it is much, much too early to get too frantic about this at the moment anyways.

I also strongly suspect that raid size will be bumped up to 30 people for the expansion in order to better balance classes in raids.

I see them slowly increasing the cap to accommodate more classes. I can see that.

Hozz · 08/04/07, 2:28 PM

Going to 30 I can see. Beyond that? I dont think so. There are reasons they went from 40 to 25.

Shadout · 08/04/07, 2:39 PM

"Alchemy only potions". yes yes yes, that took some time.

And improving transmutes

Making discovery system (crap! TM) better. Mostly discover fun potions instead of the needed ones.

Random vendor buyable items/recipes. Hmm.

Heh, and they shoot down Fireball with knockback from yesterday. That would also be crazy

(considering they said themselves knockback was too strong).

Profession Daily quests. (Not before 2.3 and later though)

Savos · 08/04/07, 2:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dejablue

So hero classes don't have talent trees? Where is alternate advancement at?

Perhaps the runes you use make an impact in how they modify or allow what spells can be cast a la Relic/Libram/Totems do now? That way you would constantly be needing to upgrade your runes to increase Imba power by 20 rating instead of only 15 rating or whatever.

Would totaly obliterate your inventory space if it worked like that however.

Trouble · 08/04/07, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by Groat

That was my question at the panel.

The near exact way I phrased it was (after mentioning that the prior person already asked my part on Heroics) - "I recall that you had originally mentioned the plan for a third zone for the blood elf area. With patch 2.4 or 2.5 or whatever including a new 25-man, the Sunwell Grove or Sunwell Plateau sure sounds like it would make sense - especially with the tie-ins to Arthas and the whole expansion."

His response was first to turn a bit red, then to state that "Wow, that sure would be interesting, wouldn't it. Our P.R. department doesn't allow me to talk about this, but it sure would be..." in the tone of voice that flat out said "The next dungeon is the Sunwell" - crowd burst into yelling cheers.

Awww yeah... ask the right questions - I'd speculated that this was going to be the next dungeon in that other thread we had on "What do you expect from Blizzcon?"

Hoping to get to ask some more fun questions this morning at the professions panel.

I'm not gunna lie, that was pretty awesome. They weren't expecting someone to have figured it out, much less ask the question. Props to you if they weren't pulling a fast one on us.

Siddown · 08/04/07, 2:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dejablue

Do you anticipate this causing any guild stress as the change from 40 to 25 man raids? With Paladins and Shamans we knew what we were getting and this was a small part of the problem. What if your MT wants to be a DK now or all of your Healadins do?

Really, that's no different then when TBC came out and a tank wanting to switch to a Paladin or Shaman.

The one really good thing I can see out of the new Expansion is they won't be doing a gear reset. So many people (granted not many here) feel that the reason the gear was better was because Blizzard wanted to force people to buy the expansion, and that all their previous "hard work" would go to waste. The truth of the matter is, they re-worked Stamina and they also decided to stop limiting themselves by removing some gear restrictions, for example, any Rogue will tell you how annoying it was to have STR on all our gear.

Since they won't be doing that now, gear you get from BT will last you well into the expansion, so there is no gear reset.

If your biggest guild drama is over whether or not someone will want to try a DK at lvl 80 compared to the Gear reset and the switch to 25 man raids that happened at TBC release, then I think you'll come out ahead.

So the only ramifications right now is dealing with people in your guild that probably have overworked imaginations.

Maledict · 08/04/07, 2:52 PM

The one really good thing I can see out of the new Expansion is they won't be doing a gear reset. So many people (granted not many here) feel that the reason the gear was better was because Blizzard wanted to force people to buy the expansion, and that all their previous "hard work" would go to waste. The truth of the matter is, they re-worked Stamina and they also decided to stop limiting themselves by removing some gear restrictions, for example, any Rogue will tell you how annoying it was to have STR on all our gear.

Since they won't be doing that now, gear you get from BT will last you well into the expansion, so there is no gear reset.

Erm, they have already said (quoted earlier in the thread) that they were happy with the gear reset in TBC and plan for the same in WLK. If you have tier 6 you should be okay, but otherwise expect a reboot, exactly the same as Naxxramus gear from original world of warcraft.

svagftw · 08/04/07, 2:54 PM

Talgog · 08/04/07, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by svagftw

Good God.

Shadout · 08/04/07, 2:58 PM

Grr, GIGA cant just focus on a damn panel :/

Trouble · 08/04/07, 2:58 PM

The way I understood the workings of the rune system is that any given spell would have a "rune cost" associated with it which puts those runes on a cooldown. The cooldown could be defined by the rune, defined by the spell, or potentially modified by the spell (this wasn't clear). Much like Fire Blast has a 6 second cooldown, imagine a Fire Blast with no cooldown, but linked to a Fire Rune that activates an 8 second cooldown when used. They also mentioned there might be something like spells that use the cooldown on one rune to clear the cooldown on another rune (I think this is what it meant, interpreting here).

Rune "management" would be one of the primary skills of a Deathknight as you juggle these various cooldowns to maximize whatever you're doing with your deathknight. One of the big things that differentiates this from the system we currently have (various abilities with cooldowns and shared cooldowns) is that you get to pick what type of runes and how many, thus having control over the cooldowns. Going back to the Fire Blast example, aside from talents it's ALWAYS an 8 second cooldown. For a Deathknight, he could simply choose t o equip 5 fire runes and he could spam Fire Blast every global cooldown. This also of course would be further complicated by spells that require multiple Runes to operate, each potentially with different cooldowns.

A short anology would be a non-turned based Magic: The Gathering game where Land (Mana) = Runes and instead of them becoming untapped after each turn, they become untapped after a certain period of time. So you're constantly casting different spells with whatever available pool of runes you have, or potentially using spells to clear various cooldowns.

(Apologies for using a mage spell to describe Deathknight mechnics, just needed an idea for a spell with a short cooldown)

Siddown · 08/04/07, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Maledict

Erm, they have already said (quoted earlier in the thread) that they were happy with the gear reset in TBC and plan for the same in WLK. If you have tier 6 you should be okay, but otherwise expect a reboot, exactly the same as Naxxramus gear from original world of warcraft.

I read a quote saying the exact opposite. That's the problem when most of the information is coming from Blogs.

I can't see how they can do a gear reset unless the plan to change formulas again. STA was reduced in price (which I also read they were happy with), and they removed limitations of stacking certain stats...they can't do that again because there are no more stat stacking limitations to remove. I just can't see lvl 69 Green "of the Bandit" gear being better than Karazhan loot. Where as green lvl 59 "of the Bandit" was basically equal to T1 due to better use of itemization.

TBC brought itemization efficiency, so unless they plan on reducing costs (which could very well happen), or drastically increase the iLevel of items, the gear reset will be minor compared to the complete overhaul that TBC brought to 99% of the population.

Beska · 08/04/07, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by svagftw

New Enchant: Executioner (Drops in Zul'aman)
Use: Learn how to permanently enchant a Melee Weapon to occasionally ignore 840 of your ennemy's armor. Requires a level 35 or higher item.

The visual effect will be at least as cool as Mongoose.

Schnigges · 08/04/07, 3:06 PM

Yay. Another Enchant useless for Druids.

Cathela · 08/04/07, 3:17 PM

Originally Posted by Siddown

TBC brought itemization efficiency, so unless they plan on reducing costs (which could very well happen), or drastically increase the iLevel of items, the gear reset will be minor compared to the complete overhaul that TBC brought to 99% of the population.

Er... they drastically increased the ilevel of items when TBC came out. What makes you think they won't do that again?

Mizerok · 08/04/07, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Cathela

Er... they drastically increased the ilevel of items when TBC came out. What makes you think they won't do that again?

Another change to the items that are in now seems unlikely, but I could totally see them changing the iLevels on the new items just like they have done before.

Rasputin · 08/04/07, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Schnigges

Yay. Another Enchant useless for Druids.

This sounds remarkably unlike useful commentary. Should I go ahead and whine about the minimal return:investment ratio of the sunfire and soulfrost enchants? It is a viable alternate enchant to savagery/mongoose, and it's interesting how they're focusing on these new stats; haste and armor penetration in itemization.

Dominus · 08/04/07, 3:23 PM

Originally Posted by Cathela

Er... they drastically increased the ilevel of items when TBC came out. What makes you think they won't do that again?

The gear reset was a combination of both making itemization efficient, and upping ilvl. Personally, I think if they keep a reasonable ilvl upgrade through the dungeons, T5 will last quite a while, and T6 should last into a good bit of raiding. When you saw the efficiency of itemization, you didn't all of the sudden see NS/BF etc getting upgraded based on the change in stamina cost, or the change to not being allowed to stack stats efficiently (which is why my BF gloves were replaced with a green quest reward from Zangarmarsh). Basically, armor became a twofold upgrade. I don't see them changing the efficiency, because it seems good where it is right now. I think the only thing to look at is the ilvl jump, which without a complete reworking of stat costs (coupled with no change to old equipment efficiency), won't be nearly as large a jump as it was from vanilla WoW to TBC.

Mizerok · 08/04/07, 3:25 PM

Not to mention that this isn't a 2h enchant, and is simply a weapon enchant...that's a lot of armor...but can we really expect people to drop one or possibly both of their mongoose enchants for it?

♦ Malorum · 08/04/07, 3:26 PM

I hope the and also don't think we will see anywhere near the gear reset we did with TBC. I think Blizzard learned a valuable lesson from that with how they killed raiding pre-TBC. As long as the itemization team keeps gear at a more linear progression than exponential we should be ok.

Mizerok · 08/04/07, 3:27 PM

So what do we think they will change about the 1-60 game? More quests? Higher EXP gain?

Siddown · 08/04/07, 3:33 PM

Originally Posted by Cathela

Er... they drastically increased the ilevel of items when TBC came out. What makes you think they won't do that again?

I'm obviously not articulating myself well this morning. The gear reset in TBC was not solely due to iLevels changing, it was a combination of increased iLevel, removal of restrictions that Blizzard had put on it's own gear, and the change in price of stamina. Two of those three things will not be happening this time, so unless they drastically increase the iLvl of items, the gear change won't be as severe.

I'm not saying it won't exist, but unlike before when only people in Naxx gear weren't in all new items by lvl 63, this time with the abundance of Arena and BG gear, plus because more of the players will be in TK/SSC at the very least by the time the game is released, the gear reset won't be nearly as large.

Trouble · 08/04/07, 3:36 PM

They just stated on the itemization panel that they plan on somehow combining healer gear and dps gear by giving free stats or something? They just said that a moonkin druid would want the same gear a resto druid would want and this would help solve itemization problems for less played specs.