Wrath of Lich King Stuff (was 'Blizzcon' thread) - Page 230

Ja7us · 07/22/08, 1:01 PM

Really, I wouldn't read much into how quickly DKs are seen grinding now. Have you seen how quickly, and with how little downtime, a well-geared feral druid, affliction warlock or BM hunter can grind? It's a nice ability to have, but it's not a huge class balance issue, and they're certainly not the only class that can burn through mobs like nobody's business.

◊ Regen · 07/22/08, 1:09 PM

Was just going over the new Jewelcrafting info (paying close attention as this will potentially be droped for Inscription or even LW based on profession-only benefitS) and I came across something concerning JC-only gems (only 2 have been posted) that struck me as odd.

Currently JC only gems are quite limited, use the same colour as previous version and are incremented by the same value, however WOTLK gems seem to use all 3 colours and different increments.

                        Uncommon    Rare      Epic    JC-Only
Primary Stats              12         16       20        ?(30?)
Spell Dmg                  14         19       23(24?)   ?(36?)
APen                       84        112       140       ?(210?)
AP                         24         32       40        50(60?)
Stam                       18         24       30        45

Stamina jumps +6 each tier and +15 (150%?) to the JC-Only tier while AP jumps +8 each tier and +10 (125%?) to the JC-Only tier.

Am I just looking for errors where they don't exist or does it seem a little silly that the JC-only AP gem isn't +60 ap or the Stam gem isn't +38 stam. It also appears that the Epic gems this time around will not result in a 1 stat loss for using hydrid gems and that by using x2 hybrid +dmg gems instead of +1 dmg +1haste you recieve +24 dmg / 20 haste instead of the +23dmg / 20 haste from pure gems. Does anyone feel the epic +23 gem should be put in line and bumped to +24 (current jump from uncommon to rare is +5 however the jump from rare to epic is +4....)

Would sumbit/post on beta forums if I was in but :/ hopefully in due time.

edit: put in suggested / expected values in ()

Moogul · 07/22/08, 1:30 PM

I think there's 2 main things at work here:

1) The AP gem is under budgeted compared the the stam one. 50ap is 25 item points, whereas 45 stam is 30 item points. I think that the stam one is correct, due to:

2) It seems that blizzard have based the increase for the JC-only gems against the epic gems, not blue gems. The Stamina gem is 50% better than the epic non-JC-specific gem. If you look at TBC JC gems, they are 50% better than the *blue* quality gems (eg. 18stam vs 12stam). I believe the JC-only gems in TBC were balanced against their blue counterparts, but then when non-BoP epic gems showed up, the difference between being a JC and was halved. I think that in Wrath, Blizzard have taken this into account and made JC only gems more of a boon even when all you're gems are purpled out.

This also raises another point that I haven't seen commented on yet.

In TBC, epic gems only came out half way through the content cycle, in BT/Hyjal, and then obviously later through IQD and the badge system. In WOTLK, we've already datamined epic gems.

Will they be available from the start? From badges perhaps, or an early raid instance? Or are they purely added to the gamefiles but wont actually be properly available for a while.

Personally I like the timing of the introduction of epic gems in TBC, first to the progression raiders, and later to everyone. If Epic gems are available early on, it will drastically impact the JCing profession, and also prevent later advancement of characters via gems. I'm hoping that whilst datamined they wont be available in game for a while.

Lamaros · 07/22/08, 1:47 PM

Originally Posted by Chicken

The more you stack of a single stat the more expensive it gets. So an item with both strength and attack power has a higher potential attack power than an item with only one of the two.

Do you happen to know the diminishing return formula? I ask because there are a number of +strength talents and procs for Ret and DKs in WotLK beside just BoK, and it might be that the difference between the two (just STR or STR&AP) isn't so huge once they're all factored in.

Illundai · 07/22/08, 1:49 PM

We’re pleased to announce a convenient upgrade to the way that mounts and vanity pets are handled in Wrath of the Lich King.

Players will be able to “learn” a mount or non-combat pet much like learning a spell, recipe, or new ability, and these creatures will then show up on a new Pet tab within the Character Info section of the interface. Players will be able to access and preview their learned mounts and vanity pets through this tab.

Once learned, the pet icon or mount icon will no longer appear in bag spaces or bank spaces. This inventory space will be made available once again for other adventuring needs. Pets can still be set to hotkeys by dragging them to the hotkey bar, much like any other spell or ability.

Very damn welcome.

P.S: My Death Knight is lvl 65 and I'm not done yet with Zangarmarsh. To give you an idea how much it got reduced.

Sydane · 07/22/08, 1:54 PM

Wow, with this I get half an inventory bag and full bank bag back, maybe I won't buy all those 22 slot bags after all. Hopefully this will mean event mounts like the brooms will be permanent now as well.

Edited for clarity.

bellator · 07/22/08, 1:54 PM

Originally Posted by Illundai

Very damn welcome.

P.S: My Death Knight is lvl 65 and I'm not done yet with Zangarmarsh. To give you an idea how much it got reduced.

Damn, all those quest reward pets i've thrown away in need of bank space. Too late for them

Shandara · 07/22/08, 2:03 PM

Originally Posted by Sydane

Wow, I just got an inventory bag and bank slot back. Maybe this will mean event mounts like the brooms will be permanent now as well.

Well one of the achievements is having 50 vanity pets, glad we don't need to reserve the space for it anymore.

Devouress · 07/22/08, 2:03 PM

New europe beta page is available! https://beta.wow-europe.com/expansion/
Character copies are probably not working yet

• Adoriele · 07/22/08, 2:07 PM

Call me jaded, but my guess is that this change is brought about by the need to be able to apply Riding Crops to class-specific 'mounts'. Rather than have to make a single item perform two separate types of tasks ('enchant' an mount or 'inscript' a spell), they just decided to make all mounts into spells, then added the change to vanity pets. It's actually kind of elegant. Only question I have left is whether, when buying a mount, you buy the spell directly or buy a token that teaches you the new mount spell (obviously boss drops will have to be tokens).

Mikari · 07/22/08, 2:08 PM

Some of these epic gem combinations are really nice, filling yellow slots won't be so bad now

Profession - Jewelcrafting

Also enchant scrolls are in.

Sydane · 07/22/08, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by bellator

Damn, all those quest reward pets i've thrown away in need of bank space. Too late for them

Not necessarily, they have complete tracking that the quest was completed, there's no reason that when they put in the new format, they can't use the data from the quests to unlock those related pets, thus giving them back to everyone who deleted them.

I can see this driving the price and demand for vanity pets up quite a bit, since there will be no downside to having them.

I also fully expect the Riding Crop and similar trinkets/enchants to be turned into minor inscriptions.

kharen · 07/22/08, 2:33 PM

Wow. Looks like i'll be hitting Northrend with 27 more bag/bank slots than i'd anticipated.

Now if only they'd do something similar for tabards...

djhbrd · 07/22/08, 2:50 PM

Originally Posted by kharen

Now if only they'd do something similar for tabards...

Please.

Also, how will enchanting scrolls work? Hopefully some sort of interaction between Enchanting and Inscription ("Enchant" a parchment made by an Inscriptor?).

Jubling · 07/22/08, 2:52 PM

Inscribers make blank enchanting scrolls that the enchanter then targets instead of a piece of armor or a weapon when enchanting. Blank armor enchant scrolls need skill 50 to make, and weapon scrolls skill 100, so they will be easy to get enough of for enchanters.

Burnow · 07/22/08, 2:53 PM

An unenchanted scroll is created using Inscription. The scroll is then enchanted by an enchanter.

The scrolls seem to be specific to the type of enchant (i.e. weapon enchants).

Nevred · 07/22/08, 3:07 PM

Once learned, the pet icon or mount icon will no longer appear in bag spaces or bank spaces.

It will be interesting to see if Scarab Lords just lose the legendary item or what they do with that. It would be nice if learning the mount doesn't remove the crystal.

Celebrimor · 07/22/08, 3:09 PM

Originally Posted by Talgog

I wasn't talking about AOE Unholy so much as Blood. Blood doesn't need AOE to be a positive feedback loop, even once starting gear is long balanced out.

Blood DK Questing: on Vimeo

The only thing that comes close is an old SM/DS warlock.

No, the only insane feats in that video is when he uses death and decay which is bugged, otherwise he kills them at quite normal speed according to his gear level and for a grinding spec.

And its easy to see that dnd is bugged since it ticks twice every second meaning that it deals twice the damage.

• Playered · 07/22/08, 3:13 PM

Originally Posted by Nevred

It will be interesting to see if Scarab Lords just lose the legendary item or what they do with that. It would be nice if learning the mount doesn't remove the crystal.

I do believe you are not forced to learn your pets or mounts, obviously there is no way to confirm this yet but from what they have said there is the indication that this is the case.

• Chicken · 07/22/08, 3:18 PM

They could also keep the mount or pet "quality" in for the spell links for those. That'd have the same effect in that you could link your legendary bug mount while nevertheless saving the inventory space. Or they could just make achievements/feats of strength linkable in chat. Though I'll add I don't really see the point, as someone with that mount you already have a completely unique looking mount (Well, outside of AQ40), as well as a unique title.

Darkrenown · 07/22/08, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Pyros

Blood definitely needs some balancing, but it's not THAT out of line if you compare it to what's comparable, good leveling classes.

I think a lot of the "OMGbloodgrindimba!" complaints come from people who've never leveled one of the good leveling classes/specs. I've recently been levling an aff warlock and the difference between it and my warrior was astounding. Hitting outland, my BWL/AQ epiced DPS warrior would often have to stop and eat every few mobs because bandage was still on CD. Pulling 2-3 mobs at a time was risking death. On my green-geared lock 2-3 mobs is a regular pull and when they're dead I'll be at full HP/mana. I've watched several blood/unholy grinding videos, and if I'd only played my warrior I'm sure I'd be thinking "wow!", but having played my 'lock it looks about the same speed.

Celebrimor · 07/22/08, 3:25 PM

Originally Posted by Darkrenown

I think a lot of the "OMGbloodgrindimba!" complaints come from people who've never leveled one of the good leveling classes/specs. I've recently been levling an aff warlock and the difference between it and my warrior was astounding. Hitting outland, my BWL/AQ epiced DPS warrior would often have to stop and eat every few mobs because bandage was still on CD. Pulling 2-3 mobs at a time was risking death. On my green-geared lock 2-3 mobs is a regular pull and when they're dead I'll be at full HP/mana. I've watched several blood/unholy grinding videos, and if I'd only played my warrior I'm sure I'd be thinking "wow!", but having played my 'lock it looks about the same speed.

Untill you realize that their leveling is imbalanced by dnd currently. And yes dnd is extremely imbalanced as that is, dnd bug is the reason he takes so low dmg in the aoe encounters and dnd is the reason he can kill them so fast.

The thing is that with twice the dnd ticks it also gets twice the fear provs meaning that its almost 100% aoe cc at the same time as it does 420 dps for 10 seconds.

Terp · 07/22/08, 3:58 PM

Ignoring the bugged dnd, Mark of Blood on an enraged target looks absurd.

Edit: I mean literally absurd, not imbalanced or overpowered or whatever. Stopping in the middle of combat for thirty seconds for a near dead mob to heal you to full is extremely odd to see. At least Drain Life makes sense thematically and has you still fighting.

Ja7us · 07/22/08, 4:13 PM

Originally Posted by djhbrd

Please.

Considering that most players that care about them have at least 3-4 bank spots saved on quest reward tabards that can't be replaced, and all reputation tabards will have an actual use, I don't think it's a bad idea. A player working on all of the Northrend reputations (which we all will be, at least at first) will have close to an entire bag full of different tabards.

Edit: Ah, yeah. That read like sarcasm when I saw it, but it could just as easily have been sincere. Apologies.

◊ zirky · 07/22/08, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by Ja7us

Considering that most players that care about them have at least 3-4 bank spots saved on quest reward tabards that can't be replaced, and all reputation tabards will have an actual use, I don't think it's a bad idea. A player working on all of the Northrend reputations (which we all will be, at least at first) will have close to an entire bag full of different tabards.

That didn't strike me as a sarcastic please as much as an acknowledgment of a damn good idea. I agree, it would be nice to have tabbards fall into the "vanity spell" category, especially with the championing system they've talked about. I can easily see tabbards outpacing mounts and pets for the bulk of the populace.