I suggest you read more into the smilie. Death Grip is counterable too. BOP to save your friend, AOE Fear if you are priest, aff lock (yes, uncommon) or warrior. Vanish if you're a rogue... As I said, it's way more powerful than Mind Control but not totaly uncounterable and it is Blizzard's intention to switch class balance.
None of those are counters to Death Grip, they are things to do to hope you aren't gibbed after getting Death Gripped. And all easily countered too. The only thing that looks limiting on DG at all is whether or not it requires true LoS or the fuzzy nonsense Charge and Intercept get in arenas now. If it's true LoS then I think that might be enough alone to balance the ability. Well not really, but it's way too early to be worried about such things.
What's the "Requires Runic Power" thing on DG tooltip mean?
Runic Power is the Deathknight's equivalent to Rage/Energy and is gained by using certain special attacks/skills.
Yes, but the tooltip says nothing of what it's used for. Does it just increase the shadow damage of the ability? Or is there a set cost to use the ability? Some of the runic power abilities seem quite vague.
Certain spells/abilities require Runic Power to use, very readily available information in many places. But as the above poster says it is their version of taunt so it shouldn't require any Runic Power or Runes.
None of those are counters to Death Grip, they are things to do to hope you aren't gibbed after getting Death Gripped. And all easily countered too. The only thing that looks limiting on DG at all is whether or not it requires true LoS or the fuzzy nonsense Charge and Intercept get in arenas now. If it's true LoS then I think that might be enough alone to balance the ability. Well not really, but it's way too early to be worried about such things.
What's the "Requires Runic Power" thing on DG tooltip mean?
You do realise that one of the checks that charge/intercept make currently is a normal LoS check to the target? You can't intercept someone even if they're in range and there's a valid path if you're not in line of sight of them.
By definition the charge check is more restrictive than a normal LoS check.
Death Grip cooldown is probably what is supposed to balance it. But yeah, it is quite powerful.
It only requires a LoS(not path), doesn't have a GCD(since it's a taunt ability for PvE) and no runic/rune cost. 25secs cooldown with unholy tier2 talent.
Also, Flame Cap is now oddly linked to Inscription - Flame Cap
I believe that's a glitch related to the fact that Inscription can "prospect" herbs. That would display a Requires Inscription on herbs based on their milling level.
Can't really say that with regards to enchanting, just think of the lvl 80 (and possibly raid) version of the alchemist trinkets added with Sunwell. (which as lvl 70 is 108Ap)
My vote would be Alch/herb with the info we got now atleast.
Can't really say that with regards to enchanting, just think of the lvl 80 (and possibly raid) version of the alchemist trinkets added with Sunwell. (which as lvl 70 is 108Ap)
My vote would be Alch/herb with the info we got now atleast.
Yes, but would an Alchemist trinket be 80AP or higher than any other trinket?
I think the current highest is 108AP from the Alchemy trinket, the highest raid drop one is 90AP.
The 80AP from ring enchants + raid trinket beats that.
Yes, but would an Alchemist trinket be 80AP or higher than any other trinket?
I think the current highest is 108AP from the Alchemy trinket, the highest raid drop one is 90AP.
The 80AP from ring enchants + raid trinket beats that.
Don't forget that skinning is supposed to give a small crit bonus. So while Herbalism might provide a fair amount of extra AP, skinning is also a decent choice, at least for PvE DPS. Obviously for PvP, resilience is a factor.
I wouldn't count out leatherworking yet either. The bop leg armor gives 100 ap and 36 crit compared to the boe version's 70 ap and 18 crit, and there are potential bop items to consider too. That's a 30 ap and 18 crit increase over the universally available one. You'll also want one leatherworker per group even with the new drum debuff. It's nice that they're adding perks to every profession, but hopefully we'll see the crafting profession perks as better than the gatherer ones. It costs time and gold to level a crafting profession, while it costs time and gains gold to level a gathering one.
It's nice that they're adding perks to every profession, but hopefully we'll see the crafting profession perks as better than the gatherer ones. It costs time and gold to level a crafting profession, while it costs time and gains gold to level a gathering one.
The problem is that if crafting perks are better than gathering perks, most people seeking to max out the potential of their character (most serious raiders and PvPers) will take two crafting professions. We're seeing this now with a lot of DPS dropping their gathering profession for leatherworking, and a lot of healers are picking up alchemy for the trinkets. Basically, these people are counting on gold from grinding or dailies to afford the raw materials for their professions.
Increased demand (more crafters) + decreased supply (less gatherers) leads to higher prices for raw materials all around. And as we saw with consumables in WoW 1.0, getting an edge stats-wise is more important than getting/saving gold, which leads to more grinding and generally unfun behavior.
All in all, the system probably works best if most people have 1 gathering profession and 1 crafting profession, and having profession perks being equal is the only way to really assure that.
All in all, the system probably works best if most people have 1 gathering profession and 1 crafting profession, and having profession perks being equal is the only way to really assure that.
If profession perks are equal, the optimal behavior is to have two gathering professions. Why would I take a crafting profession if I can get equal benefits from a gathering one, as well as making money from it (because some people are stubborn and would stick with crafting)?
Probably the only realistic way to make people take one crafting and one gathering profession is to make the perks of the crafting profession require bind on pickup mats that can only be gathered by the gathering profession.
Last edited by Shakes : 07/25/08 at 12:06 AM.
Reason: fix typo
The problem is that if crafting perks are better than gathering perks, most people seeking to max out the potential of their character (most serious raiders and PvPers) will take two crafting professions. We're seeing this now with a lot of DPS dropping their gathering profession for leatherworking, and a lot of healers are picking up alchemy for the trinkets. Basically, these people are counting on gold from grinding or dailies to afford the raw materials for their professions.
Increased demand (more crafters) + decreased supply (less gatherers) leads to higher prices for raw materials all around. And as we saw with consumables in WoW 1.0, getting an edge stats-wise is more important than getting/saving gold, which leads to more grinding and generally unfun behavior.
All in all, the system probably works best if most people have 1 gathering profession and 1 crafting profession, and having profession perks being equal is the only way to really assure that.
The reverse is just as true. If compared to blacksmithing mining was better at making gold, far easier and cheaper to level, and equal in personal perks, who on earth would ever bother levelling blacksmithing? I'm not against crafting professions getting perks of their own, just that their perks should be somewhat inferior to the crafting profession ones, otherwise there is no point in being a crafter. Do you want a game where every physical dps goes herbalism+skinning because there's no point in any crafting profession? What about forcing every tank to take up mining for the stamina buff, even if they never actually want to use mining for anything? That will happen if you make the perks across professions equal, except in some specific cases where you won't benefit from the stats gives by the existing gathering professions.
Not all of the WoW population are hardcore mini-maxers either. Some people will always do that, even if you aim to make the professions equal, but even in raiding guilds a lot of people currently have gathering+crafting profession, despite being able to gain more from crafter+crafter. As long as the gap in perks between the two types isn't big, some people will prefer to keep a gatherer profession. Blizzard made a huge mistake with leatherworking in the Burning Crusade. Let's not see the mistake repeated by making people roll gathering professions not to use, but to just to gain some stat bonus. Why would you invest the time and gold going for skinning+leatherworking not to even mention 2 crafting professions, if skinning+herbalism gives equal benefit and is a lot cheaper and less time consuming?
All in all, the system probably works best if most people have 1 gathering profession and 1 crafting profession, and having profession perks being equal is the only way to really assure that.
But one of the perks of a gathering profession is being able to make gold fairly easily. Balancing the profession perks without taking this into account would lead to a situation like Shakes described, where the ideal set of professions is dual gathering.
Personally I plan to drop mining on my hunter once I've maxed my engineering in WotLK, but I'm also leveling mining on a 'less serious' character so I'll be able to gather on my own if I want to. I imagine a lot of people are going to have a similar set up.
Ideally you would get a crafting profession to make money (the same as a gathering profession) with equal perks, but given how little control Blizzard exerts over server economies directly it isn't likely to ever happen.
Does the concept of "prospecting" herbs scare the holy hell out of anyone else with regards to price inflation?
Stacks of herbs have hit 60-70g on my server already.
What scares me is professions that have no money making ability. How can you keep up to what Ore/Herbs will be bringing in, come expac?
WTB a change to the professions system. I'd love to see us be able to have 1 static gathering slot, 1 static crafting slot, and 1 "flex" profession slot for a second gathering OR crafting.
The reverse is just as true. If compared to blacksmithing mining was better at making gold, far easier and cheaper to level, and equal in personal perks, who on earth would ever bother levelling blacksmithing? I'm not against crafting professions getting perks of their own, just that their perks should be somewhat inferior to the crafting profession ones, otherwise there is no point in being a crafter. Do you want a game where every physical dps goes herbalism+skinning because there's no point in any crafting profession? What about forcing every tank to take up mining for the stamina buff, even if they never actually want to use mining for anything? That will happen if you make the perks across professions equal, except in some specific cases where you won't benefit from the stats gives by the existing gathering professions.
First off, if everyone goes dual-gatherer, the amount of money you can make will drop significantly (greater supply + decreased demand).
But you are right that it's cheaper to maintain. But on the other hand, what happens if everyone is dual gatherer? The worst thing that happens is that crafting professions don't get used. While that is unfortunate, it's better that professions don't get used than to force us to spend lots of extra time grinding gold to pay for raiding.
Neither extreme (mostly crafters or mostly gatherers) is good. But of the two, I would prefer the mostly gatherers.
There are basically 2 types on perks associated with professions. Permanent perks such as a stat bonus, better leg armor, ring enchants or drums give a benefit in all situations. Bind on Pickup item perks only give an advantage if you don't have a better item available for that slot. I wouldn't mind seeing the crafter and gatherer permanent perks balanced against each other, as long as crafters retain their better bop items. That way you'd benefit from the crafting professions through actually making something to use for yourself.
I doubt we're going to see a massive overhaul of the profession system anytime soon. They've said they don't have plans for adding a third profession slot either.
First off, if everyone goes dual-gatherer, the amount of money you can make will drop significantly (greater supply + decreased demand).
But you are right that it's cheaper to maintain. But on the other hand, what happens if everyone is dual gatherer? The worst thing that happens is that crafting professions don't get used. While that is unfortunate, it's better that professions don't get used than to force us to spend lots of extra time grinding gold to pay for raiding.
Neither extreme (mostly crafters or mostly gatherers) is good. But of the two, I would prefer the mostly gatherers.
So you would prefer a system where professions aren't basically used at all, and only levelled to gain a static stat buff by having it at max level? Why not just do away with profession perks altogether then?
Again, why shouldn't blacksmithing give you better benefits than mining, skinning or herbalism? Generally crafting professions require gold to level and are poor for making gold at max level, while crafting professions gain you gold to level and are at least fair for making gold. There are some exceptions to this, as jewelcrafting for example is expensive to level and good for making gold. The only way I could see the crafting+gathering combo becoming the best solution like you want with equal benefits across all professions, would be to limit professions to one gathering and one crafting directly. I don't see how you could make levelling blacksmithing as profitable as levelling mining for example, without massive overhauls to the entire system.
07/24/08, 10:04 AM
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