I would be shocked if WotLK gets released before December. People don't get any free time until the winter holidays, and they need that time to level their toons to 80.
In case you've forgotten, TBC was released on January 16th which was well past the date of any conceivable winter holidays or vacations people would typically have.
I would be shocked if WotLK gets released before December. People don't get any free time until the winter holidays, and they need that time to level their toons to 80. Plus, all the children who play WoW need the money from their Christmas day presents to afford the xpac in the first place.
Or perhaps, we get WotLK released in the fall, but players only get access to DKs. The early adopters can get DKs leveled up to 70 in the interim, and then when winter holidays come, Northrend is released and everybody can rush to 80.
Were you shocked when World of Warcraft was originaly released on the 23/4th of November? If they are going to pick any date other than "as soon as it is done" then they would likely go for the anniversary.
In case you've forgotten, TBC was released on January 16th which was well past the date of any conceivable winter holidays or vacations people would typically have.
Yet it was in time for people to use their Christmas money to buy it.
Originally Posted by Lamaros
Were you shocked when World of Warcraft was originaly released on the 23/4th of November? If they are going to pick any date other than "as soon as it is done" then they would likely go for the anniversary.
People didn't have a reason to rush to max level though. The actual leveling was more important. Now that WoW is a fairly mature game, people don't want to waste time collecting 20 bear livers, they want to rush to max level, gear up, and start raiding/arena pvp/etc.
Bosses have been in multiple places in the game before. It arguably increases immersion.
And, for that matter, Kel'Thuzad is hanging out on the Borean Tundra atm, so unless he's being replaced too, I think that it's clear that it's ok for bosses to exist both in and outside of an instance.
Just to put a point on this, I've seen several instances of NPCs showing up in multiple outdoor locations at the same time.
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One of the corrupted elven prince questgivers (Prince Kelthenas or something I think?) is one of the questgivers at the beginning of the DK intro questline. You later fight and kill him with a named DK NPC in Borean Tundra. The funny thing is that the friendly NPC himself is in two places at once in the same zone, as a questgiver inside of a ziggurat, and on top of a necropolis. Further, Arthas the Lich King was on top of Acherus at the beginning of the DK questline, and he himself shows up in the field later on. It's making it a much better storytelling technique to have these characters crop up for important story points.
It's pretty obvious they wanted an earlier release with TBC and screwed up. See the 2.0 patch as evidence.
On other hand Blizzard has proven they can learn from their mistakes. While I believe they will be aiming to finish WotLK during this year, I doubt it will stop them from releasing it in October 2008 if they think it's ready, or on other hand delay it until March 2009 if they encounter severe problems.
In long run I don't think WotLK sales are affected by such variatons.
The TBC beta seemed to stall for a long time between when the last leveling zones were added and when the game was released. I have no clue why.
However, I think the WotLK timetable has been quicker so far than TBC's. TBC beta didn't start until September at least, iirc. The alpha lasted longer as well. And the beta launched with only 2 zones and 4 dungeons unavailable, while the TBC beta launched with 3 zones and... more dungeons unavailable. I'd say a November release looks pretty reliable at this point, even taking into account Blizzard's notoriety. I think WotLK has been a more modest project from when the alpha launched than TBC was, really, which obviously has its advantages and disadvantages - fewer dungeons, more content recycling, major content cuts being made early on (Azjol-Nerub, most raids being reserved for the content cycle from the start)... if it means the game comes out on time, however, then great.
On other hand Blizzard has proven they can learn from their mistakes. While I believe they will be aiming to finish WotLK during this year, I doubt it will stop them from releasing it in October 2008 if they think it's ready, or on other hand delay it until March 2009 if they encounter severe problems.
In long run I don't think WotLK sales are affected by such variatons.
Subscriptions are, though, and that's what matters.
According to wowwiki, the BC beta started in early October, the 2.0 patch was mid December, and the release was mid January.
If they keep to the same timespan this time around, that would be a release of the 3.0 patch towards the end of September and the expansion towards the end of October. However, it might be sooner, based on WotLK beta supposedly being more advanced than BC at the same stage, and them also saying they don't want as big a gap between the patch and the expansion this time around. Also, there's no Christmas to get in the way this time.
I think an early to mid October release isn't at all unrealistic to expect at this point. In fact if anything I wouldn't be surprised to see it even sooner if trying to rain on Warhammer's release parade is a priority to them.
With the ambiguity of Mograine in that line of text, I think that makes it more likely that there will be a drawn out quest/item/encounter associated with him. If they weren't going to bother, surely they would of simply left him there.
But, an October release seems a bit odd given they went and updated the Brewfest & Halloween stuff, adding in new level 70 rewards. If Wrath comes out before they're over, no-ones going to do them since there'll be better stuff in Northrend (not to mention Northrend will be new, holiday stuff won't be, for the most part).
I would almost expect blizzard to want to provide a buffer zone from when the expansion is "complete" to when they release it. So even if it is ready in say late October (assuming a similar timescale to BC for no better reason than there's nothing better to compare it to) they may wait until November xx to release it. Just as the poster above me stated, it does seem odd to put in many holiday items (actual use items such as weapons not just vanity things) for level 70 if the expansion would already be out by then.
In all honesty a longer beta could help relieve some of the pain of buggy content that we saw with Burning Crusade. As much as the typical wow player would have you believe, Blizzard is not stupid and would certainly rather have a finished product ready by Christmas than to push Wrath in October simply because they conceivably could.
Originally Posted by Fellwraith
[Y]ou will tank 3 mobs, and only 3 mobs. 5 shalt thou not tank, nor shalt thou tank 4. Thou shalt not tank 2 mobs unless it is on the way to tanking 3 mobs.
People seem to have forgotten that there are TWO Death Knights standing atop Ebon Hold, looking down upon EPL. Darion Mograine and Rivendare. Darion defected; however the last time we saw Rivendare - he was still standing atop Ebon Hold whilst Arthas sent Darion in to his death. Although the results of the engagement were somewhat different from what was expected - Arthas had intended for Mograine not to return from LHC that day. This suggests that Kel'Thuzad had already arranged for his replacement amongst the Four Horsemen. With two Mograines dead, and the third defected/missing, the next logical option would be Rivendare - who is clearly still loyal to The Scourge. I wouldn't be surprised if Rivendare was replaced by a new Death Knight inside Stratholme (ala Kazzak after he went through the Dark Portal), although a serious concern is raised when the player wonders, "Didn't I cut his head off and hand it in for a quest?"
There is of course the explanation that Arthas sent one of his Angels down there and resurrected him like he does to other such worthy champions; but still... we took the guys head. That's pushing it.
Re: Release
I have difficulty entertaining the thought that Blizzard would delay the release of their heavily anticipated expansion for Octoberfest. Whether or not an expansion was in the works, it's natural for them to implement holiday/celebration content.
EDIT: To further re-iterate, they don't have a crystal ball to see into the future and say, "Well the expansion will be ready so we shouldn't bother implementing anymore holiday content." It's common sense to design the content - at least in the event of inevitable delays.
Well, if the expansion comes out in October, what level should Brewfest items be? Only a small percentage of people, the truely hardcore, will be 80 by then. So having Brewfest tuned around 80 seems excessive, especially as Holiday events are pitched as a fun event that the vast majority of players can participate in. The best option is really to tune stuff around 70, but provide solid rewards that will last until about level 75 or so.
A November release would allow them to "catch" players finishing school for the semester. One complaint about the release date of TBC was that it was right before or during the start of the spring semester, making it difficult to level.
[quote=Jagiya;836915]Re: Naxxramas & The Four Horsemen
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People seem to have forgotten that there are TWO Death Knights standing atop Ebon Hold, looking down upon EPL. Darion Mograine and Rivendare. Darion defected; however the last time we saw Rivendare - he was still standing atop Ebon Hold whilst Arthas sent Darion in to his death. Although the results of the engagement were somewhat different from what was expected - Arthas had intended for Mograine not to return from LHC that day. This suggests that Kel'Thuzad had already arranged for his replacement amongst the Four Horsemen. With two Mograines dead, and the third defected/missing, the next logical option would be Rivendare - who is clearly still loyal to The Scourge. I wouldn't be surprised if Rivendare was replaced by a new Death Knight inside Stratholme (ala Kazzak after he went through the Dark Portal), although a serious concern is raised when the player wonders, "Didn't I cut his head off and hand it in for a quest?"
There is of course the explanation that Arthas sent one of his Angels down there and resurrected him like he does to other such worthy champions; but still... we took the guys head. That's pushing it.
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When it comes down to it, there are so many holes in the Ashbringer lore that it makes sense that Blizzard would just wipe it out and replace it with this new comic-book continuity, which will likely dovetail with what's happening in Wrath. Look at the Ashbringer elements from the original Tier 3 Naxx:
1. When Fairbanks tells the story of Mograine, he says that Renault made a deal with the Scourge and killed his father with the Ashbringer. But then Papa Mograine has the Corrupted Ashbringer with him in Naxxramas. Why didn't Renault have it?
2. The existence of Papa Mograine's other son (whom we now know is Darion) was a question we were supposed to answer in Burning Crusade, because that other son was supposed to be in Outland. Yet, aside from theories surrounding David Wayne, no one found the younger Mograine there.
3. Also, two people claimed to know the location of the Ashbringer: Prince Tortheldrin of the Shen'dralar Elves in Dire Maul, and Nat Pagle, and yet aside from dangling a plot thread in front of us, neither of those characters had anything to do with Naxxramas or the Ashbringer questline.
Much like "Lo'gosh, King of Stormwind," the new story of the Ashbringer is going to be presented via a multimedia project and then solidified into the MMO itself. So that's all stuff that's forthcoming. What I'd really like to know is this: what the hell was the original intended implementation of the Ashbringer into WoW? How did that change when Naxxramas was released? How did that change when Burning Crusade was released?
I too first thought that an October release was unlikely: The new BRD event was open and available for testing on the PTR, and no one would ever want to do it if WOTLK was already here, even if it was a shot at free 41 badge trinkets (Bloodlust Brooch, Autoblocker, etc.)
However, Jagiya makes a very good point - even if they target an October release, may as well ready some fallback content in the event of any delays, especially since some of it is as simple as re-enabling the Horseman event plus a few new items in his drop table.
If Warhammer comes out in September like the rumors say it will, I honestly can't see any way WotLK will be delayed for Brewfest, school holidays, or anything else. Grabbing people back to WoW before their free first month of Warhammer even expires is too big a business incentive. The more time they give Warhammer, the more chance the game has of getting into a polished state before people give up on it and run back home to WoW.
I couldn't find any mention of this, but the weapon oils from the old Scourge invasion quests have been buffed: from 60 spelldamage to 100. Same is true for the melee equivalent.
Can we stop debating release dates with half-baked theories we've heard 50 different times? We don't know, they don't know, it will be out when it is done. Do we really need more than that?
How about we talk about things we can actually test or learn about, like the beta and content therein.
That seems to read as a pretty big "bring a DK tank or fail" sign...
If we get a chance to test raid content, it will be interesting to see if they incorporate any solid "DK gimmik" fights in early raiding. I'd imagine a stringent DK requirement would be much more likely in the 25 man version, since those guilds will also be more likely to have a DK or two speed leveling to get into the game as fast as possible. Something flexible with Dk or priest would be a nice compromise for an early zone.
I just hope they don't go too overboard with DK integration. As it is, newer players are going to find it really hard to resist a class with two levels worth of solid lore quests, a free epic mount, and a cool class flying mount. The good news is that within a year, the DK population should all but extinguish the terrible Ret paladins who have plagued the game since release and leave the class with better players :P
What I like about Eligor Dawnbringer is that he hints at the strategy needed to kill the Naxx bosses.
Shirrak the Dead-Watcher had a simple version of this, since he'd announce who he's gazing at. Granted, the wording is a little ambiguous, but after the first wipe, it should be clear to any group that the person being gazed is the person to avoid, rather than flock to.
We also have Lord Ahune, whose boss fight made it pretty clear what had to be done: Even if you could damage him while surfaced, his clear damage reduction buff and the sheer number of adds to handle indicate that you're supposed to ignore him for the time being, then the big raid warning of an exposed, vulnerable core gives the players a cue to DPS him hard.
For the lucky beta testers, have you experienced this kind of Blizzard-made, intrinsic boss warnings in the new dungeons? It would be nice to be able to puzzle out the required boss strategy from in-game clues/cues, as opposed to looking them up on BossKillers (or here :P )
I wonder if they'll change the Instructor's mana burn now that Ret Pallies and Enh Shaman are actaully used. I imagine for a melee class all that ridiculous LoS work would eat up even more DPS time than for casters. And if your main tank is a Prot Pally that could be devastating as well.
If Warhammer comes out in September like the rumors say it will, I honestly can't see any way WotLK will be delayed for Brewfest, school holidays, or anything else. Grabbing people back to WoW before their free first month of Warhammer even expires is too big a business incentive. The more time they give Warhammer, the more chance the game has of getting into a polished state before people give up on it and run back home to WoW.
All they need to do is implement Open Beta to steal back many players playtime.
I wonder if they'll change the Instructor's mana burn now that Ret Pallies and Enh Shaman are actaully used. I imagine for a melee class all that ridiculous LoS work would eat up even more DPS time than for casters. And if your main tank is a Prot Pally that could be devastating as well.
Have you ever done Razuvious? It is simple to have adds tanked out of LOS of Razuvious, and you obviously don't have a tank on Razuvious himself. Just tank Razuvious in a halfway intelligent location and there would be no difficulty with bringing mana-based melee hybrids.
07/31/08, 8:57 PM
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