Xav

That's hard to say, and hard to set up. If you "baked in" threat bonuses we used to always have into specific abilities, you'd have to assume we're always using those abilities at set times in order to retain threat we once had. Heroic Strike for one is an ability that would be a poor choice, due to it not being in a 'rotation' and used as a rage dump. It would make the most sense for it to be purely innate when you're in the stance, and not tacked on to specific abilities. Also, pretty much every tanking ability says "This ability generates a high amount of threat" at this point.

Some random math about my last post or so:

DPS Guy: Generates 2000 TPS, they have a 20% passive reduction however, and salvation. so 2000 * .8 * .7 = 1120 TPS
Tank Guy: Generates 1000 TPS, they have 15% D. Stance, 30% Defiance, so 1000 * 1.15 * 1.3 = 1495

DPS Guy without Salv: 2000 * .8 = 1600 TPS
Tank Guy: Generates 1000 TPS, they have 75% "new" tank modifier (no idea what it actually is), 1750 TPS

However, the problem with that is we don't know how much DPS and thus threat the DPS will gain (with the changes), and we don't know what the actual "tank modifier" is.

 

Spiry

Very well, the granting of Shield Slam to all warriors and keeping it's "High threat" tooltip mention. Heroic strike was merely an example, such as Revenge too, but if all tanking abilities get the baked in threat, that would be where it's all gone to.

 

urotas

A large part of that "baking" is probably from better ap scaling for threat abilities. If they don't re-itemize the plate tanking gear, those skills won't gain as much as they will with lvl 80 gear. Presumably they'll balance threat generation for lvl 80 values, so it may become a problem if they don't change the lv 70 gear.

 

Mikari

Achievements are going to be part of patch 3.0

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - 3.0 - achievement tracking on live?

 

Seratha

It looks like they've added rare quality item progression to Heroics now. Whereas TBC had all max level dungeon blues be item level 115, WoTLK max level dungeon blues will be level 187, with the blues from heroics being level 200. It should give more incentive to run heroics based on the upgrades from items rather than which one can give you the most badges in the least amount of time.

 

Tirin

So, if achievements are going in I guess anything attached to achievements will probably be added as well.

Changes to the map (Otherwise we could find ourselves no longer qualifying for the "explore all of x" achievements come Wrath)
Low-level quest finding ("Complete all quests" achievements will be a nightmare otherwise)
Barber shop is already confirmed



Anything else?

 

Liar

Here is hoping they don't mess up item distribution. I really am not looking forward to farming a "normal" instance just because the blue that drops there beats out the other heroic options for whatever reason (there is no alternative, better item spread etc). If you enter a heroic then you should expect better loot without having to look back to a lower tier instance. We really don't need another DST fiasco.

Unexpected TankPoints error Clearly someone doesn't understand how EH works. That, or upgrading from T8 to T9 is optional in beating Arthas. Clearly.

 

• Bluefish

Wasn't the itemization of Heroics in TBC done at the last minute? Perhaps if they itemize them earlier in the cycle this time, the people in beta can give feedback as to which 'normal' items are too good and which heroic items aren't good enough. I'm also hoping that they avoid putting things in heroics that are hard to upgrade them outside of it. [Everbloom Idol] being on badges is great, run whatever your guildies want and snap it up. [Libram of Avengement] being in Heroic Blood Furnace is not so nice.

 

Exewut

DST fiasco but shard of contempt success?
Trinkets and other rare items dropping in 5 man heroics would be good really. A fourth patch next to the wellknown pvp/10man/25man progression routes would be good. Especially since it's one that requires almost no time or preparation.

 

Cuer

Some official info that the 3.0 patch will indeed go on the PTR for quite some time, unlike the 2.0 patch before TBC came out:

 

Mideci

Here's the thing, the very two fights I see a lot of guilds trying to finish before the expansion are Illidan and Brutallus.

Yes, I'm quite sure some are going to be pushing their last attempts in deeper Sunwell, too. Illidan will either need to be changed -- i.e. trivialized to tank for warriors -- or will require a prot paladin. You don't have one? Forget killing him. Brutallus without all the drums? Well, I'm sorry, but the notion they are chucking this massive content patch out against old encounters and testing them to see if the new buffs >> the nerfs is laughable. They don't even do that on live content they intend to keep running for months.

This content is intended to last for weeks. That's it.

I know a bunch of you see this as a prelude to a delay of Lich KIng. But the timetables for first beta --> release of TBC suggest otherwise. And there isn't any indication from beta that things are slow enough to delay Lich King past the late November / early December timeframe at this point.

But there is much to be concerned with that current encounters are going to be a mess. And for the mass of guilds trying to finish them in the closing weeks, that's fairly disappointing. I'd like to be wrong and learn that a lot of the new buffs are going to constitute an across-the-board nerf to Sunwell and that they'll fix things like Illidan -- and whatever else we haven't yet figured out will be absolutely unwinnable with 3.0 mechanics unless you can change who is doing the work (sub a paladin in for your Illidan tank). History is not on the side of that.

 

Mikari

Surely the raid wide buffs and changes to buffs such as the WF now being haste should easily outweigh the drums nerf for current content?

 

rochan

I can see them just removing Shear from Illidan alltogether. It's just a gimmick component of the fight anyway. As for things like Brutallus, the talent changes will increase dps on average and things like raidwide shamans & auras will make it far easier.

It's exciting to say the least.

 

KamPa

DPS wise, it will be an improvement, or at least, they won't be much worse. It's tanking and healing that remains to be seen. This "salvation is now included in threat" isn't very clear and can't really guarantee that DPSers will actually have chance to go all out with their new toys. And that's assuming downranking change and potion sickness will work out in current raiding content.
That, and the mess that will be caster/healer itemization.
Quite a few "maybes", will remain to be seen how it works out.

 

Copernicus

Asked and semi-answered-

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Illidan's Shear and WoW 3.0 Talents

 

seminarca

As you said, Warriors' Defensive Stance and Defiance modifiers are currently multiplicative, hence why you get 1.3 * 1.15 = 1.495. Druids' Dire Bear Form and Feral Instinct are additive, so we get 1.3 + 1.15 = 1.45. In WotLK the Defensive Stance and Dire Bear Form skills have both had their mods changed to 1.45 (we know this from data mining, not testing), so you guys are effectively losing that bonus 4.5%. As well, with the removal of Defiance, Warriors lost their free 6 Expertise, which I assume will be added back in the Prot revamp.

 

Liebestod

So I'm playing through Storm Peaks right now, and it really seems like Blizzard is taking their non-dungeon.. instancing to greater and greater heights. I have in mind an area where you go to do some quests, filled with some relatively normal mobs, yadda yadda. After you do some quests, though, a regiment of goblins appears and starts suicide-bombing the area, which is pretty neat.

It's kind of like how the Death Knight into is handled, divided into three "chapters" which are quite different in terms of mob placements and whatnot, but are all part of the same broad world.. it's just that when you enter certain areas flagged as having done certain events, the game will load in NPCs based on your flags, and will also make PCs who don't have those flags invisible to you while in the area. So this area of Storm Peaks is on the same open server, only some people will be loaded into the non-goblin area and some will be loaded into the goblin area based on quest progression.

Obviously this opens the possibility of having some very dynamic overworld phenomena, which is pretty cool imo. Yes, there are issues with "what if I want to help my buddy do a part of the questchain I can't access anymore?", but those concerns are pretty moot compared to how much potential lies in this mechanism. It seems like something Blizzard must have devised relatively late in WotLK's development, which is why it's being seen more extensively in the more-recent zones.

There's also a very cool quest where you have to jump from drake to drake and fight the riders as you go. Well, it would have been cool if there weren't 4 others people trying to do the quest, turning it into a 20+ minute endeavor. But still, I was thoroughly impressed.

 

• Falk

Zul'Drak quest(line) spoiler

 

Pyros

Blizzard just made a long list of their new stacking buff/debuff raid system, and quite a few things were changed.

Here is the original post, for everyone to check:
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Changes to Debuffs, Buffs, and Raid Stacking

I wasn't sure if I should have posted that here or the raid utility thread, but this one is wotlk specifcally, while other seems to still be used by current wow users so well.

The change to mana battery effect seems... interesting.

 

◊ Lactose

There doesn't seem to be any mention on scrolls there? Or other consumables, like the various drums.
Scrolls I could see slotting into the 'Stat Add Buff' section; not stacking with other more powerful version (this is already the case in most situations, I think?), but drums seem to not fit this very well?

EDIT: Also, no listing of Demoralizing Screech (pet debuff, -410 attack power). Would have expected this to be in the 'Attack Power Debuff' section.

Look, Lactose, we'd rather you didn't eradicate the whole human race.
- Sam & Max

 

cutfang

I didnt see it mentioned in that specific blue post, but drums are supposed to debuff you and prevent their use for 2minutes. I guess they'll still be rather useful for pumping out dps, but marginised.

With inscription bringing more available scrolls I imagine blizzard intends for them to be used in raids, which is a bit odd considering what happened with alchemy pre flask nerfs. I'm hoping scrolls will be easy enough to obtain like fish food or spelldamage oil.

 

gia

As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong) scrolls don't stack with buffs that give the same effect, so STA/INT/SPI scrolls don't stack with fortitude/intellect/divine spirit, but STR/AGI and armor scrolls currently have no equivalent. The elegant solution I think is to have scrolls not stack with Strength of Earth and Horn of Winter and armor scrolls not stack with Devotion Aura. I think this should be tested and perhaps suggested if it's not the case.

 

Dancing Wu Li Master

That should go a long way to solving debuff limit issues too.

 

• Intermission

So now that only a small portion of the raid can supply every buff/debuff required, and you have X-amount of spare slots to fill with people...

It now comes down to figuring out which class has the most dps, which is extremely easier to measure now, and stacking that class. Wasn't this change designed the prevent raid stacking? Whether it be a class matrix or a class stacking.

"/officer Ok we have -list of raid buffs/debuffs- in the raid now, and we have 12 slots left. Joe, invite the 8 hunters/warlocks/whatever class is king at the time"

 

Spiry

Replenishment returns 0.5% mana/second. How long does the buff last? Is that even how it works?