Wrath of Lich King Stuff (was 'Blizzcon' thread) - Page 277

koaschten · 08/29/08, 6:50 PM

If you are wondering whats wrong with the beta realms:
WoW Forums -> Scheduled Maintenance 8/29/08

TLDR patch time

PSGarak · 08/29/08, 7:05 PM

You don't need Blessing of Sanctuary of you take a Discipline Priest for Grace. Most comps I've seen take the disc priest, even if they have a prot paladin, so that the prot pally does BoK, the ret does BoM, the warrior does Commanding, and you don't need a warlock.

Rasputin · 08/29/08, 7:31 PM

Originally Posted by Ukerric

If you're willing to forego Divine Storm and go 50/21, then yes. Or BoK for the ret paladin, BoS for the prot paladin. The point is, you need two paladins for the full raid panoply, because you need two Blessings. You can get away with only one, if you're willing to sacrifice a buff, which is probably worth it for a 10-man raid (in that case, I'd drop the warlock and the prot paladin, freeing 2 slots at the price of a buff and a debuff that are not always useful - if your boss doesn't cast and has little to no adds). But, as I said, I was looking at the core, the minimum number of people to make a raid with all buffs/debuffs - then you complete as needed.

Oh I know, I was just correcting his list above, which listed a ret paladin with Blessing of Sanctuary. No ret paladin will take Blessing of Sanctuary because it would remove Divine Storm, a 10s CD armor piercing attack that will be central to ret paladin dps in wotlk. Holy normally owuldn't either, but Beacon of Light is awful, so they have a chance to do so, which will hopefully disappear once Beacon is fixed to be a useful talent.

flyingtoastr · 08/29/08, 7:56 PM

Originally Posted by Ukerric

If you're willing to forego Divine Storm and go 50/21, then yes. Or BoK for the ret paladin, BoS for the prot paladin. The point is, you need two paladins for the full raid panoply, because you need two Blessings. You can get away with only one, if you're willing to sacrifice a buff, which is probably worth it for a 10-man raid (in that case, I'd drop the warlock and the prot paladin, freeing 2 slots at the price of a buff and a debuff that are not always useful - if your boss doesn't cast and has little to no adds). But, as I said, I was looking at the core, the minimum number of people to make a raid with all buffs/debuffs - then you complete as needed.

A ret pally dropping Divine Storm is like a combat rogue forgoing Sword Spec. It just doesn't work that way. DS is our largest DPS ability by a very large margin (armor piercing AoE that heals and procs the active seal) and dropping it is gimping a spec that is now stuck in limbo without a way to sustain mana thanks to our itemization.

What they could always do is make Kings baseline (which really needs to be done given that it is the only ability in the "stat increase- percent" category and is talented) and move Sanctuary to the 3rd tier. They could then give prot pallys some tanking thing in the 5th in place of Sanctuary now. That way if you want to be a "raidbitch" spec you can easily dump down prot 11 points to pick up Sanctuary without severely gimping your spec, and in addition frees up holy specs so they aren't forced down prot to pick up Kings.

Smurrf · 08/29/08, 8:43 PM

Kings made baseline, Sanc changed up some and moved down, and some sort of mana regen talent would pretty much be all that Prot requires. It's a good tree as of right now; it has a lot of talents, definitely, but is on the good side of Blizz's definition of Bloat. Something that restores mana, either as an Imp'd SA or some other way to regen while in tanking mode is definitely needed though.

Mikari · 08/29/08, 9:08 PM

Official talents appear to be updated.

WoW -> Info -> Classes -> Talent Calculators

Smurrf · 08/29/08, 9:13 PM

Wrath Beta Talents

Druid

* Major changes to Balance Tree, abilities removed, moved around
* Nature's Mastery - Balance - Updated name, Icon
* Genesis - Balance - Added talent
* Nature's Splendor - Balance - Added talent
* Natural Reaction - Feral - Added talent
* Mother Bear - Feral - Added talent
* Living Seed - Restoration - Updated icon
* Gift of the Earth Mother - Restoration - Updated Icon
* Celestial Focus - Balance - Updated Stats
* Furor - Restoration - Updated stats/description

Warlock

* Malediction - Affliction - Typo fix
* Demonic Power - Destruction - Fixed typo
* Backdraft - Destruction - Fixed typo

Priest

* Divine Spirit - Discipline - Updated stats
* Aspiration - Discipline - Moved talent
* Improved Holy Concentration - Holy - Updated icon
* Circle of Healing - Holy - Fixed typo

Rogue

* Cut to the Chase - Assassination - Updated icon

Mage

* Improved Blizzard - Frost - Updated last level

Warrior

* Unrelenting Assault - Arms - Changed to two levels
* Rampage - Fury - Updated stats/description
* Intensify Rage - Fury - Updated to three levels
* Improved Berserker Rage - Fury - Updated stats

Death Knight

* Necrosis - Unholy - Updated description
* Summon Gargoyle - Unholy - Updated cooldown
* Blood-Caked Blade - Unholy - Updated stats/description
* Wnadering Plague - Unholy - Updated stats/description
* Unholy Blight - Unholy - Updated stats/description
* Morbidity - Unholy - Fixed to three levels
* Corpse Explosion - Unholy - Updated stats/description
* Dirge - Unholy - Updated stats on level two
* Unholy Aura - Unholy - Updated stats/description
* Reaping - Unholy - Replaces Unholy Rune Mastery
* Unbreakable Armor - Frost - Updated stats/description
* Endless Winter - Frost - Updated to two levels

Those are the changes that were made in the official talent calculator, source is WoW -> Game Info

Edit:

Mother Bear - 3 ranks (Tier 8 talent) - Increases the bonus attack power of Bear Form and Dire Bear Form by an additional 20/40/60%, and for each friendly player in your party, damage you take while in Bear Form and Dire Bear From is reduced by 1/2/3%.

Looks like the bear druids got their armor concerns addressed, at least in part.

Starfire · 08/29/08, 9:13 PM

You guys DO realize just because a buff exist and because it is a best does NOT mean its going to be used, right? Mostly in regards to the Disc priest, since they're currently considerably inferior to Holy, but to support my point, look at Shadow Embrace and Affliction warlocks.

PSGarak · 08/29/08, 9:22 PM

Rogue post went up on mmo-champion, plus some Druid changes and a few others on the official calculators.

So I've noticed something interesting with the new talent trees, especially what they just did with moonkin and rogues. While, in general, talents get more powerful as you get deeper in the tree, most classes have 2-3 tier 1 5-point talents that are powerful enough to be considered "required" in any spec. With the DK they made this goal explicit that every tank spec would start with 5/5/5. They mentioned a similar design decision for warriors way back in the day, which I think was deflection/cruelty/shield spec. Under the changes that just went up, Resto druids want Genesis in balance (new talent), balance druids want Furor (new version). Meanwhile, all rogues still want Cruelty, and the awesome-tacular Dual Wield Spec is moving to tier-1 combat as well, plus a promise that everyone will want a tier-1 subtlety talent. All paladins want Divine Strength in prot and probably Benediction. Warlocks have ISB, Bane, Demonic Embrace, and are in a constant state of being pissed off that Improved Corruption is neither baseline nor fits in the standard raid spec. And so on.

This doesn't apply to all classes or talent trees yet, but I think it might be a very concious design decision and I'm wondering what the intention is. One possibility is that it favors 51-point talents over 21-point talents because you're comparing the 21-pointer to 45-51 instead of 51 on its own, but that's coming from a very warlock-centric point of view. I would like to know if anybody thinks I'm onto something, or just on something, and what the implications might be.

flyingtoastr · 08/29/08, 9:47 PM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

All paladins want Divine Strength in prot and probably Benediction.

Well as it is even while chain casting Judgement on cooldown Bene is only worth about 25 Mp5 saved. For 5 talent points it is (right now) quite underwhelming, especially considering that Improved BoM is going to be a very nice talent in Wrath (depending on how the not-stacking-with-BS works out).

But yeah, your point is still valid that they want T1 talents to be nice for all specs.

Mikari · 08/29/08, 9:47 PM

Main Page - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information has screen shots of the new options menu on the login screen, looks like they added the DK voice modulation in this build.

Lysara · 08/29/08, 9:55 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Main Page - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information has screen shots of the new options menu on the login screen, looks like they added the DK voice modulation in this build.

Ah nice, I'll finally be able to turn off the music without having to log in on a character.

What's Headphone Mode though?

Mikari · 08/29/08, 9:58 PM

Originally Posted by Lysara

Ah nice, I'll finally be able to turn off the music without having to log in on a character.

What's Headphone Mode though?

I'm guessing it's this feature.

Sounds - Software surround sound simulation for stereo headphones
config.wtf - SET Sound_EnableSoftwareHRTF "1"
- Make sure you do not have "Use Hardware" checked in the in-game Sound Options if you want to try this feature.

It previously was only accessible from a console slash command.

Fiola · 08/29/08, 10:12 PM

Originally Posted by Mikari

Official talents appear to be updated.

WoW -> Info -> Classes -> Talent Calculators

None of those talents seem to reflect the buff/debuff consolidation changes. Could someone check if the Beta server talents match the talent calculators?

All the mana battery talents have the old mechanics listed, misery is still +dmg and not +spell hit, and various other things.

Smurrf · 08/29/08, 10:31 PM

It'll have to wait a while yet. Beta's still down for updating the new build.

Mikari · 08/29/08, 10:40 PM

More stuff

Hunter

New skill added

* Disengage - You attempt to disengage from the target, leaping backwards. Must be facing the target.

New Rhino skill added

* Stampede - Your rhino slams nearby enemies within $a1 yards, causing $s1 damage and knocking them back $/10;s2 yards.

Rogue

* A blue post on rogues with significant changes was posted on the forums.

Death Knight

* Horn of Winter - The Death Knight blows the Horn of Winter, increasing total Strength and Agility of all party or raid members within $a1 yards by $s1. Lasts $d.

New Glyphs
Druid

* Glyph of Thorns - Increases the duration of your Thorns ability by $57862s1 min when cast on yourself.
* Glyph of the Wild - Your Gift of the Wild spells no longer require a reagent.
* Glyph of Aquatic Form - Increases your swim speed by $57856s1 while in Aquatic Form.
* Glyph of Rebirth - Your Gift of the Wild spells no longer require a reagent.
* Glyph of Challenging Roar - Reduces the cooldown of your Challenging Roar ability by ${$57858s1/-1000} sec.

Hunter

* Glyph of Bestial Speed - Increases the speed of your pet by $s1% while using Eyes of the Beast.
* Glyph of Scare Beast - Gives your Scare Beast spell a $57902s1% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.
* Glyph of Feign Death - Reduces the cooldown of your Feign Death spell by ${$57903s1/-1000}.
* Glyph of the Pack - Increases the range of your Aspect of the Pack ability by $57904s1 yards.
* Glyph of Mend Pet - Your Mend Pet spell increases your pet's happiness slightly.
* Glyph of Revive Pet - Gives your Revive Pet spell a $57866s1% chance to not lose casting time when you take damage.

Mage

* Glyph of Arcane Intellect - Reduces the mana cost of your Arcane Intellect and Arcane Brilliance spells by $s1%.
* Glyph of Slow Fall - Your Slow Fall spell no longer requires a reagent.
* Glyph of Fire Ward - You have an additional $s1% chance to reflect Fire spells while your Fire Ward is active.
* Glyph of Frost Ward - You have an additional $s1% chance to reflect Frost spells while your Frost Ward is active.
* Glyph of Ice Armor - Increases the duration of your Frost Armor and Ice Armor spells by ${$57928s1/60000} min.

Rogue

* Glyph of Vanish - Increases your movement speed by $58038s1% while the Vanish effect is active.
* Glyph of Blurred Speed - You gain the ability to walk on water while your Sprint ability is active.
* Glyph of Pick Pocket - Increases the range of your Pick Pocket skill by $s1 yards.

Priest

* Glyph of Shadow Protection - Increases the duration of your Shadow Protection and Prayer of Shadow Protection spells by {$58015s1/60000} min.
* Glyph of Fortitude - Reduces the mana cost of your Power Word: Fortitude and Prayer of Fortitude spells by ${$58009s1/-1000}%.
* Glyph of Fading - Reduces the mana cost of your Fade spell by $57937s1%.
* Glyph of Shackle Undead - Increases the range of your Shackle Undead spell by $57986s1 yards.
* Glyph of Levitate - Your Levitate spell no longer requires a reagent.

Paladin

* Glyph of Blessing of Wisdom - Increases the duration of your Blessing of Wisdom spell by $57979s1 min when cast on yourself.
* Glyph of Blessing of Might - Increases the duration of your Blessing of Might spell by $57958s1 min when cast on yourself.
* Glyph of Lay on Hands - Increases the mana restored by your Lay on Hands spell by $57955s1%.
* Glyph of Sense Undead - Damage against Undead increased by $s1% while your Sense Undead ability is active.
* Glyph of Blessing of Kings - Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by $57937s1%.

Death Knight

* Glyph of the Warhorse - Reduces the casting time of your Summon Charger and Summon Warhorse spells by ${$57954s1/-1000}.1 sec.

Professions
Inscription

New possible inks added

* Hunter's Ink
* Lion's Ink
* Dawnstar Ink
* Jadefire Ink
* Royal Ink
* Celestial Ink
* Fiery Ink
* Shimmering Ink
* Ink of the Sky
* Ethereal Ink
* Deathletter Ink
* Ink of the Frozen Sea
* Snowfall Ink
* Silver Ink

Leatherworking

* Fur Lining - Stamina - "Permanently enchant bracers to increase stamina by 90. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound."
* Fur Lining - Spell Damage - "Permanently enchant bracers to increase spell power by 70. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound."
* Fur Lining - Fire Resist - "Permanently enchant bracers to increase your fire resistance by 60. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound."
* Fur Lining - Attack Power - "Permanently enchant bracers to increase attack power by 120. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound."

Alchemy

* Transmute: Earthsiege Diamond - Transmute the element of fire and gems into a Earthsiege Diamond.
* Transmute: Skyflare Diamond - Transmute the element of air and gems into a Skyflare Diamond.

Misc
Darkmoon Faire

* Darkmoon Card: Death - Each time you deal damage, you have a chance to do an additional $s1 Shadow damage to targets with less than 35% health.
* Greatness Darkmoon Card - Chance to increase your highest stat by 85 for 30 sec when dealing or taking damage in combat.

Violet Hold

Violet Hold sounds are in, so the instance is likely available.
Icecrown

Airships will likely be functional.
Wintergrasp Changes

Fuel might have been added this build
Essence of Wintergrasp - Allows the bearer to see and loot Essence Crystals. Also increases their focus in combat, improving the experience they gain.

flyingtoastr · 08/29/08, 10:52 PM

Glyph of Blessing of Kings - Reduces the mana cost of your Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings spells by $57937s1%

Didn't blizzard learn from the old 5-piece Lawbringer that reducing the mana cost of out-of-combat buffs like Blessings is perhaps one of the worst bonuses in the game? Given that blessings are a whopping 6% of base mana (somewhere around 250 mana at level 80) I can think of a maximum of... zero uses for this thing.

I'm curious if this Essence of Wintergrasp buff is active through all of Northrend. It would most assuredly give people a very good reason to use the zone.

E: Glyph of the Warhorse (listed under DK glyphs) should be under paladins. Warhorses and Chargers are pally mounts.

gia · 08/29/08, 10:55 PM

Keep in mind they are most likely minor glyphs, doesn't mean I disagree with you but they should be compared with the other minor glyphs.

Ellyh · 08/29/08, 10:56 PM

Well all of these look like the minor glyphs which aren't supposed to have major effects. Hence all the cheaper and longer effects. I also expect that they are crafted at low level so will be "Somthing" for levelling characters to use. I doubt that any of these are designed as "raiding buffs" persay. If it's useful that's nice but if it competes with cute cosmetic stuff I can live without these.

PSGarak · 08/29/08, 10:59 PM

Calm down. I'm basically taking that as a confirmation that a) they still plan to have major and minor glyphs b) minor glyphs range from useless to almost useless c) Most or all glyphs we have yet seen are Major glyphs, and this is the first time we're seeing minor glyphs. Several of these glyphs lower buff mana or reagent cost, just like minor glyphs are supposed to. It's not particularly exciting, but it's strictly superior to not having the glyph, and it's not competeing with, say, 20% more Siphon Life for a major glyph slot.

I'm still sort of hoping there's major, minor, and lesser still. Even aside from the actually useless ones, many of those in-combat glyphs are clearly better than other ones and it would help the gimp ones to be in a category of their own.

flyingtoastr · 08/29/08, 11:04 PM

I'm all for minor glyphs doing small things, but mana cost reduction is flat out nothing. Think about if they adapted the reagent reduction from the GotW and Slowfall ones for things like PWF or BoK. How excited would every paladin in existance be to not have to carry 5 stacks of reagents to every raid?

That's the difference between useful but weak and completely worthless.

Muggins · 08/29/08, 11:20 PM

There's a few changes to protection going up, things like:

- Toughness getting a 50% snare duration reduction.
- Imp Def Stance having on top of 6% spell reduction a 100% chance to enrage after you parry/dodge/block increasing damage by 10% for 12 sec.
- Puncture and Imp Revenge down to 2 points each (1/2 rage reduction, 10/20% damage to revenge 25/50% stun chance)
- Imp Shield Wall also increasing the amount reduced by 10% on top of cd reduction.
- Critical Block also increases your Shield Slam crit by 15% on top of before
- Charge being a 40 point talent which i can only assume is borked.
- Vigilance gets more words added to description, worryingly signalling it might be staying.
- Safeguard is down to 2 points instead of 3.
- Shockwave changed to 50% of AP from 25%.
- Sword and Board has had its proc chance bumped up to 3/6/9/12/15% chance on a devastate only.

PSGarak · 08/30/08, 12:06 AM

Delete - should have been a PM.

flyingtoastr · 08/30/08, 12:17 AM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

That complaint is far, I think, although the BoM/BoW do sort of remove the reagent cost for self-use only. New question for you, flyingtoastr: does Beacon of Light becoming the old Mark of Divinity on mmo-c's talent calculator (Beacon recieves 100% of healing you do to any other target with 40 yards) finally settle that whole BoL vs Sheathbot arguement I've been avoiding in the paladin thread for the past month?

We're discussing it now in the pally thread. It could be situationally explosive (Twin Emps-esque encounters dumping full throughput on 2 tanks comes to mind) but I personally don't think it solves our major lack of multi-target heals. The main problem (as I see it) is that one of the "extra heals" is always landing on the same target, so we're still stuck spamming group members one at a time leading to long downtimes between heals on individuals. In a 5-man (for example) where everyone is taking damage we're still looking at having to cast single Holy Lights across people to try to keep them up, the only difference is it's 4 casts (8 seconds) for one circuit of the party instead of 5 casts (10 seconds).

It has potential though, and it does feel a lot more "paladin" than a HoT.

Smurrf · 08/30/08, 12:19 AM

Out of a desire to not see this argument going on in multiple places, can we confine that discussion to the Pally thread? That is why it's there, after all.

Edit: New Faction information...looks like they hadn't forgotten the Championing of reputations discussed at WWI.

The first mechanics for the faction champions are here. In Wrath of the Lich King you will be able to earn reputation toward a specific faction by becoming its "champion", for example by wearing a Cenarion Circle tabard while running Hellfire Ramparts you will earn reputation for both Honor Hold/Thrallmar and Cenarion Circle. Obviously tabards reputation requirements will be changed to something like friendly/honored. (Source Worldwide Invitational 2008)

* Argent Champion -- You champion the cause of the Argent Crusade. All reputation gains while in level 80 dungeons will be applied to your standing with them.
* Ebon Champion -- You champion the cause of the Knights of the Ebon Blade. All reputation gains while in level 80 dungeons will be applied to your standing with them.
* Champion of the Kirin Tor -- You champion the cause of the Kirin Tor. All reputation gains while in level 80 dungeons will be applied to your standing with them.
* Wyrmrest Champion -- You champion the cause of the Wyrmrest Accord. All reputation gains while in level 80 dungeons will be applied to your standing with them.

Source