Ingmar

Actually the problem with DST is that it is just the best melee/hunter trinket out there, dropping in a Tier 4 instance. If it would have dropped from for example the Illidari Council rather than from Gruul, I don't think people would have complained that much. Just "giving" everyone the best trinket out there via badges seems like a bad idea to me, but giving a nice (sub-optimal) trinket to fill the slot in case of bad drop rates is of course an excellent idea. So, in current terms: Gruul would drop Broodlust Brooch, Leo would still drop Tsunami Talisman, Council drops DST and a proper number of T6 class badges (note: not heroic/t4 class badges!) would get you the Madness of the Betrayer. Of course, this means that *somewhere* in T5/6 instances the shard of contempt should drop rather than in a 5-man heroic...

Personally as a priest I kind of dislike the fact that I need to have alchemy, since I otherwise won't be able to perform the best (without the trinket) possible. Just giving a "nice" version of an otherwise excellent drop for badges would be plenty, imo.

 

flyingtoastr

Actually trinkets would be great on the badge vendor.

Remember that slots like Trinkets, Rings, Cloaks and Necks are all shared between classes. Every melee DPS (regardless of class) wants that AP/Crit necklace, every caster (healers included now) wants 2 of the SP/Haste rings, every tank wants the uber Stamina trinket. Right now even with perfect luck dropping every week it would take 15 weeks for my guild to get that one spell power ring for each person. That just sucks.

My hope is that items that are shared heavily between classes (Rings, Trinkets, Cloaks, Necklaces) and class specific items (Librams, Totems, Idols, Sigils) are put on the badge vendors both to streamline the loot tables and to make them easier to acquire.

Divine Favor still costs mana.

 

Lasie

Quoted for Truth.

It would be a very dramatic change in how much loot gets sharded vs. used. If it was BoA then everyone's alt can get geared up, and the extra loot gets soaked up.

Though BoA for gear seems/feels a little strange. For instance the idea of handing a full t6/sunwell tanking set to a lvl 1 mage alt? That strikes me as kinda weird and out of place.

 

Ingmar

Well it depends on itemization, Warriors/Shamans will want the Str/crit ring, while rogues/hunters would prefer the AGI/AP version. Sure, if you only make crit/hit/ap items all will want it, but seperate it with str/agi and things get easier to divide.

About casters and spellpower, I'd guess there will be more items with spellhit/crit for DPS casters, versus spirit/regen for the healers. Paladins will likely be an exception (crit), but I'm guessing Priests and Druids will still like the spirit stats, while Shamans/Pallies rather go for MP5/crit. Spellpower/haste items will indeed probably be hot for both types of casters, although I've heard that druids will likely find Haste useless if it doesn't affect the GCD for their rotations anymore.

Still, even though I'd be ok with putting a nice haste/spellpower ring on the badge vendor, it has to be proportional and preferably slightly inferior to the drop in that badge-type instance.

On stuff like wands/relics I couldn't agree more, completely useless drops are no fun at all.

 

Reinhars

For the BOA thing, I see bags as a no brainer.
For anything else, there may be drawbacks.


You beat me to the point.
With the change in itemization (like the new spellpower) and gem we would have :

Drop : customizable (by gem and enchant) armor pieces, set token and main hand weapon
Badge : trinket, rings, bows/guns/sigil/libram/totem, cape, necklace, off hand, held in off hand, shields and the PVP gear they felt obligated to add to boss loot table.

In this setup, I can see a none class specific token system working with more relevant gear dropping aside of set and constant gear flow from badges.

Now would the use of badge mean that boss should drop fewer item ?
Today most boss drop three items, 2 of them being token if they are token boss (one item is added when the dungeon is nerfed).
With two drops, token boss would only drop token or we would have only one token.
One token means what ? 1/2 tokens per slot per class on average for a boss in the middle of a dungeon before you are deep enough in the next tier so you don't go back ? But on the other side you will have more choice in off set armors.

 

Sydane

I would like to see the Sunmote exchange system integrated with the badge system. Personally I don't care for the way that a crafting reagent that is needed to make some of the best in slot items gets wasted just to take a drop and make it useful for another class. If you are just giving up your own personal badge to convert the item, it seems like much less of a loss. In addition, if you had something similar to the blacksmithing weapons where each tier they could be upgraded, you could have items that you continued to upgrade as you progressed through the various instances. Maybe give the ability to take your 25 man tokens and use them to upgrade a 10 man item to the 25 man item as well. It looks like they are putting more thought into long term planning of the badge system than they did with BC, so hopefully we'll see some more creative and useful implementations of ideas.

Empathy does not imply approval.

 

P51mus

Shamans don't gear for str anymore. In wotlk it gives them 1 ap per. Agi also now gives shamans 1 ap per. So they'll go with the rogues and hunters.

 

Ukerric

MMO Champion has some screenshots of shaman PvP and PvE tier armors, and they all switched from STR to AP.

 

Akj

Does anyone know if Warlocks had some of the excess stam on their tier sets converted to spirit?

 

• alcaras

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Constructive Feedback for server first titles

 

Feorthas

I've been paying attention to the whole segregated 25/10m badge systems lately, especially the "will it ever be possible to convert N 10m badges to a 25m badge" discussion, and it occurred to me that an AQ40-esque regalia/armament system could be put in place in the smaller instances--at the very least, the low droprate from all bosses part, not necessarily the vendor position though (although I wouldn't complain too much about that)--that would allow for one/N 10m badge(s) to be converted to 1/(M) 25m badges. This would also be similar to how normal instance bosses had a low droprate for Nethers wheras heroic final bosses had a 100% droprate.

At the very least, with more and more loot being possibly converted to badges--resulting in less wastage but also less 'fun' from getting your drop--it would definitely add to the fun-factor of a place if a cool/useful drop could happen, in addition to the boss' normal loot table, at least in my opinion.

 

Tirin

I like the thought of rare bonus drops like that, but I don't know that the badge system would be quite right for it. Rare-drop gear of a higher quality would work better on it's own token system so Blizzard can control what you buy. Getting lucky and picking up a one-tier-higher bracers/belt/gloves/boots is fine, but things like chestpieces and pants carry so many stats that the bonus seems to powerful if you can get them. Even if the items have costs that match their contribution you still have issues with trinkets/relics. Their power can vary wildly. Basically what I'm saying is

1% chance of getting Gruul bracers off Kara=Fine
1% chance of getting Gruul t4 off Kara=Bad
1% chance of getting DST in Kara=Bad


Random chance and large groups will always mean oddities on the edge. If you make a 3% chance a t7 boss will drop t8 badges, then let things run for a few months, you will find a guild somewhere that has observed a 25% drop rate, and you'll find another that hasn't seen a t8 badge yet. The stat differences between these two should not be very great.

 

Kaacee

Yea, it seems kind of munchkin at first, but it is a fair trade-off. How many times have we all sharded 100 pieces of druid loot, then have our normally reliable resto go ninja-MIA. We earned the loot, does it really matter which character on our account gets it?

I doubt it will ever happen though. If it does, maybe we can hope for PVE to PVP transfers.

 

Karoo

I would love to see BoA as a reality but for different reasons than most are stating here.

The idea of everything binding on one specific character every time you use it was needed in an instanced game in order to prevent stagnation of the economy (SoJ's as currency in Diablo 2 is a prime example). The fact that anyone can go to an instance, have it all to themselves and farm it continuously providing they don't hit the instance/hour cap means anyone can pretty much farm anything which would swarm the AH with any and all items and pretty much make a lot of the pre-cap and entry level cap content go quite unused.

However, the one (and almost only) thing I miss about EQ was being able to give a level 1 monk a fungi tunic and a t-staff and watch him absolutely destroy stuff solo all the way to pretty much level 60 (back in the pre-PoP era). I want to be able to do that in WoW on alts. That's why I spent almost 1k gold on a white, tradeable twink set.

BoA would allow me to earn gear for myself yet still be able to pass it on to alts and why shouldn't I be able to? I spent the time the first time around earning it.

EQ eventually introduced a level requirements for some items but not all and turbo twinking an alt was amazingly fun because it meant I didn't have to two box to speed level. I would love to see the level requirements on BoA items vanish as well.

Because of instancing and dynamic spawn rate it wouldn't hamper much of anyone's game play experience. A super twinked alt can't keep an entire camp clear and prevent other people from completing quests. The only argument against it would be making lower level BG's unfair. But they already are. People spend ridiculous amounts of gold turbo enchanting the best in slot items for that level range all the time which gives them a tremendous advantage in especially the 10-19 20-29 and 30-39 brackets (the 30-39 bracket costs way more money if they are using ilvl 35+ items and the best enchants around).

This actually makes it easier for everyone who isn't super rich to catch up and level the playing field. The game is 4 years old in November, most low level characters are rerolls and alts these days.

 

◊ Ugato

This is not a sound nor valid reason to have major bind to account items. In fact, it would be incessantly stupid to have people even tempted to roll/bid on items "because my 20 mage would really pwn with that." There are very few items that would transfer effectively across classes anyway. If you were able to get any function out of the BtA items, then you would in essence be rerolling the same or at least a very similar character.

Pets, mounts, titles. I could see all of these being eligible account-wide perks. Making level 80 items available across all characters on an account (especially with the ludicrous idea of removing level restrictions) is a bit much.

I can't argue with this. And I await the day that they decide to use the DK function and apply it to all classes. Having leveled a DK, I have to say that the starting area is very entertaining. And the fact that DKs start with 0 talent points (eventually gaining the missing 45 points through the quests) is also a little stroke of genius. The whole experience of a new Death Knight brings you into the class and game quickly, but it gives you time to learn the class, not just throw you in head first.

But giving level 1's level 80 epics is not the way to resolve an issue with leveling.

 

Feorthas

Oh, I'm not talking about the Tier tokens in the slightest--just the, err... well, Tier Badges? That's a horrible name but it's the best I've got :-/.

Get a 1%--or whatever--extra drop off of any of the bosses in a 10 man raid and it lets you convert some of your, possibly rotting, 10-man badges into 25-man badges of the same tier. Since it's an 'additional item' type of drop, you don't lose any, possibly useful, 10m loot, or badges, but, because of it's rarity, its not like you'll be converting 10-man tokens over to 25-man tokens in massive numbers (so even if it eventually gets you a DST or some other really nice item, it'll take a good while to get the 10m badges converted, even if you're lucky with drops and one person gets them all).

Heck, maybe it could convert a 10-man DST to a 25-man DST via a sunmote like system. *shrug*

 

Bluerose

Disappointed to see the server first x 80 withdrawn, it's the little things that pique the interest.

 

Axanor

It's probably for the best given the potential for cheesing the exp system.

Although I'd really like to see the Iron Chef title back again.

 

• alcaras

I'm very happy it's gone. All it did was encourage unhealthy playstyles.

I imagine we'll see the actual titles back, but with a different way of earning them.

 

Bluerose

Unhealthy play styles will always be amongst us as will "cheesing", it's an MMORPG after all where time investment provides results. Removing a caveat that harm's no one who wishes to not do it while providing that little bit of exclusivity to those who wish to pursue it comes across as boring, you could apply the same point to arena titles.

 

Prinsesa

All this does is encourage people to blow past the content in a massive rush to 80. Remember, they changed the DK unlock to "just have a level 55" because they didn't want people to blow past the content in a massive rush to 80 just to unlock the DK either.

That being said, let's steer clear of this topic, as the "casual vs. hardcore" debate that stemmed from this crashed the Achievement thread.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Bluerose

Who said anything about casual v hardcore? I think your trying to make a point that isn't there no offense.

 

Jagiya

So now that those fellows over at Premonition have begun privately exploring/datamining Naxx data (not sure which method, but it's available), it's good to see that Blizzard went through with the 2x Obedience Crystals for Razuvious, meaning you can MC the adds with any class/composition.

Additionally, they managed to score the HP values of each of the bosses in 10 man Naxx. Of course it's safe to assume that these values will be changed during several phases of testing and balancing, but at this point, it seems that you require 11,286 Raid DPS to defeat Patchwerk(10) before the enrage timer; assuming it stays at 7 minutes. I'm really doubting that they'll require more than 2 tanks for this fight; as to adhere to their "flexible" raid options attitude; so assuming you're bringing 2 tanks and 3 healers, you're gonna need around 2258 DPS from each raid member to kill 10-man Patchwerk. Assuming you're good enough to do it with only 2 healers, then you can get away with 1881 DPS per person.

It'll be interesting to see how much tuning takes place, and how difficult they want Naxx to be as an entry level 10 man dungeon. At a glance, you'd look at those numbers and think, "we're already capable of pulling those numbers in Sunwell" (circumstances allowing for stacking and consumables/buffs), so it doesn't really appear to be a huge "gear check." By the looks of it, it'll be somewhat trivial for the Sunwell veterans, but still challenging for the "not-so-hardcore" population.

I'm really curious to get my hands on the 25 man data and see what sort of numbers are expected... but again, it's somewhat pointless to speculate at this point, given how many changes are yet to be made.

 

• Haphnet

The Achievement Thread


What's done is done about the titles no longer being available through server firsts. I agree however, that I would like to see the titles achievable through alternative means that are perhaps still tied in with what the titles represent. (Perhaps as a druid you would need to be exalted with all relevant Cenarian, factions for example.) What matters most is that this still gives people a drive to do something in the game to obtain a neat change to their character without promoting the unhealthy, hyper competitive play style.

 

rochan

People will definitely play non stop until they get to 80 if they keep these achievements. That is a serious health risk and I doubt ActiBlizz wants that kind of publicity if people die like some have in the past playing other games.