If Fall of Humanity returns mana, can be it used whenever you feel like getting some free mana? That plus 5% spirit seems little too powerful.
Millions of words are written annually purporting to tell how to beat the races, whereas the best possible advice on the subject is found in the three monosyllables: 'Do not try.'
I believe Fall of Humanity has been incorporated into the Night Elf racial? (Thereby making them the best tank race in the game)
Shadowmeld:
"Activate to slip into the shadows, reducing the chance for enemies to detect your presence. Lasts until cancelled or upon moving. Any threat is restored versus enemies still in combat upon cancellation of this effect."
It has a cooldown of 3 minutes, and it can be used in combat. In PvP it will force enemies targeting you to detarget you. It will cause any mobs currently on you to de-aggro, but it does not take you out of combat unless you are the last one on the hate list of any mobs that you were engaged with.
This effect is very similar to what was previously "The Fall of Humanity".
It should be noted that the 5 extra points of passive stealth value is still there, however it isn't written in the shadowmeld tooltip. It is now just its own passive effect called "Elusiveness".
Originally Posted by Caniki
Hey guys, I heard that Blizzard puts out these things called "patches" that contain "content"
I think the reason some people are saying Night Elves is one of the strongest tanking races now is more because of the +2% chance to be missed and the +3% to resist nature spells than because of a gimmicky threat drop.
Sure enough the threat drop is nice for fights like Bloodboil (though it's not really hard when you have Omen and Missdirect), and our two human main tank warriors were happy about it, but I think they're going to like 'Every Man For Himself' a lot better.
I think the new shadowmeld will lead to deaths more than anything. As people have noted, fights like gurtogg are pretty easy as is, on the other hand "Opps, sorry Locks, I mis-clicked shadowmeld and he killed three of you before I could click it off" seem much more likely.
Fun times with pugs too I'm sure.
Edit: I suppose the same could be said when it was a human ability. Either way, I'm thinking that a race based ability (thus one that tanks can have) to drop aggro is a bad idea on the whole.
Shadowmeld' Stealth is cancelled upon movement. I can't see 'accidental' deaths occurring. Maybe humourous purposeful killing but if you can't move an inch before the boss runs away after you mis-click shadowmeld then you deserve any mocking you get.
Race-based aggro drop has pretty serious pvp ramifications, too. Well-timed feigns win lots of arena fights against casters with long cast times (incoming frostbolt -> wait until .1 sec left -> feign -> spell is wasted), and will probably do very nicely as an assist train interrupt as well. Human rogues, even better than in BC?
Either way, I'm thinking that a race based ability (thus one that tanks can have) to drop aggro is a bad idea on the whole.
Paladin tanks have had such an ability since the inception of the class, and it hasn't been a problem for them. There are cases where dropping agro briefly is a very useful tool for a tank, I don't see how it's a bad idea at all.
Paladin tanks have had such an ability since the inception of the class, and it hasn't been a problem for them. There are cases where dropping agro briefly is a very useful tool for a tank, I don't see how it's a bad idea at all.
My guess would be he is more concerned with tying said drop to a race, rather than tying it to the tanking class. If it is tied to the race and as you said, a very useful tool, then it very well could be too desirable to have as a tank. I'm not saying Elves will become the next Taurens, but players may believe that they are which most likely isn't good either.
Last edited by Haphnet : 09/13/08 at 1:10 PM.
Reason: Wording
Originally Posted by Fellwraith
[Y]ou will tank 3 mobs, and only 3 mobs. 5 shalt thou not tank, nor shalt thou tank 4. Thou shalt not tank 2 mobs unless it is on the way to tanking 3 mobs.
Well 2% miss and a situationally useful forced aggro switch may not be up to Tauren levels of preference, but since no other Alliance race has anything that helps with tanking in any way it does create an obvious "best tank race".
I'll probably still make my Death Knight human since Expertise seems to be very important to DKs as they are so rigidly rotation bound, but there's still that thought at the back of my head that maybe it'd be easier to replace that expertise with gear than 2% miss and the irreplacable aggro switch.
That said, it's clear they're not done yet so we'll see what happens. The Human racial in particular I'm sure will see several more iterations, I'm hoping the final one is not a status removal effect. While Stoneform, WotF and Escape Artist are certainly powerful in PvP, I personally think things like Warstomp, Perception, Gift of the Naaru are more fun and take more skill to properly use.
Guess this is one major reason for PvErs to take more than a passing interest in Lake Wintergrasp. A short one-boss raid instance that's only accessible for 4 hours after your faction wins in Wintergrasp.
The Vault of Archavon is a short instance with one boss in it that is only accessible after your side (Horde or Alliance) has claimed victory in Wintergrasp. Currently to facilitate Wintergrasp testing, you'll only have 30 minutes after victory to fight Archavon. This will be extended in the live game to 4 hours.
I really like this direction since it means that raiders who are generally not interested in PvP events will be drawn to it. I'm really look forward to this part of the expansion now when I wasn't really much interested before. Would Blizzard implement something like the DST-type item in this raid-instance in order to keep the interest in this raid high for the long term (beyond the initial first-kill excitement)? I hope not but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case.
You don't have to win for the PvP accessories / arena items. You also don't have to organize the raid. It's all instanced PvP for the regular PvP items, so you don't have to deal with population imbalances. And, of course, most importantly: You don't have to do it every three days for a chance at an item.
I hope, fervently, that this boss has comparable or worse drops compared to Naxx and is not updated for later instances. (Or, preferably, that it's removed entirely.) Organizing the whole guild for a raid night, starting with us wasting an hour on PvP that we're not all geared for, that hopefully we win because otherwise we've wasted the entire raid night, does not seem like fun to me. If there's a DST on this boss, it would only get worse - we'd be stuck starting our raid nights with PvP until the end of time, with the associated time wasted by travel, the irritated prot specs, etc.
Clearly you haven't done Wintergrasp. Don't have much resil? Jump in a tank. Tanking spec? Defend a tower. Don't like killing people? Hop in a copter and scout. Wintergrasp is very different from the "normal" PVP.
I think it's a neat little idea. It gives PvEers a good reason to check out the zone and have an interest in some world PvP. I would personally like to see the boss as truly optional; maybe drops extra tier tokens or badges from whatever instance he's balanced for. Stuff that you can get anywhere. That way it can be more of a "oh we have wintergrasp let's go kill whatever" for the guilds who are afraid of a little PvP while still giving benefit to those guilds that want to farm him for the gear weekly.
And if worst comes to worst you can always just post on your realm forums and make a deal on sharing the time between the two factions.
I actually kind of like the idea. It's preferable to the old Green dragon/kazzak ect.. mechanic of 'oh hey drop everything you're doing kazzaks up' Or 3am phone calls to go grief people doing green dragons until the rest of my guild woke up.
Instead, you know exactly when the chance is going to be available, you can plan around it, and you only have to fight to get in, not during the actual encounter. Seems alot more fun and enjoyable.
And I'm not sure about the rest of you, but usually a guild effort absolutely steamrolls anyone else in their way, except for other guilds. On my server there's about 5-6 'endgame' horde guilds and a comparable number alliance side. I look forward to reliving the old titanic clashes my server use to have of one massive group of horde fighting a massive group of alliance.
Originally Posted by Relwin
If you need a shot macro to hold your hand then you are probably on the wrong forums.
Its a really good idea actually, you get the pvp fight over a world boss but when you win you don't have to worry about interference while actually doing the boss. I have really fond memories of fighting alliance raids at Kazzak, but having your MT get cycloned after most of the alliance have left from getting killed repeatedly gets old really fast.
And I'm not sure about the rest of you, but usually a guild effort absolutely steamrolls anyone else in their way, except for other guilds. On my server there's about 5-6 'endgame' horde guilds and a comparable number alliance side. I look forward to reliving the old titanic clashes my server use to have of one massive group of horde fighting a massive group of alliance.
Although let's face it, if the loot in there becomes worth having It will be under a day before the horde and alliance coordinate to take turns, thus destroying the fun of the zone for PVP players during raid hours. I don't see this being a desirable situation for either type of player.
Now, if the new boss dropped PVP gear and was tuned so that a hodgepodge raid of PVPers could beat it (like Heroic Magister's Terrace 3rd boss), then that would be a cool idea. Especially if it takes [PVP Neck of Raid Despair] off the loot table of bosses like the Twins.
It's probably just to make winning Wintergrasp more exciting for the average players as well as guild groups. An extra incentive. I doubt the instance is there specifically to get hardcore PVE players to participate in PVP.
I think if an assumption can be made about the Wintergrasp raid boss, it would be that he is intended to serve the role of Kazzak and Doomwalker (outdoor raid bosses), without the problems that you had with non-raid people blowing you up.
This is only viable if they manage to get the underdog tools to work correctly. Not every realm has good population balance so they are walking on thin ice here. There is also the fact that on my BG the horde are not cursed with a large proportion of kids / really bad players like the alliance is. So while I tentatively support the idea there is an awful lot of work needed on wintergrasp to make it viable for sides under a serious numerical/skill disadvantage to even out the chances both sides have. Current thougts in the beta forums seem to be suggesting that lake wintergrasp will only be contested every 4 hours which leaves very little window for actual PVP and will leave the entire zone unused for extended periods of time. depending on the timing it could very easily be that guilds that could swing the fight won't be online when the fight occurs leaving them at the mercy of others who were online.
Sorry if this has already been asked, I couldn't find it at least. I wondered if there was a change in how itemlevels are calculated. (I used this on the next two items to test.)
Sorry if this has already been asked, I couldn't find it at least. I wondered if there was a change in how itemlevels are calculated. (I used this on the next two items to test.)
09/12/08, 3:15 PM
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