Will be interesting to see what the class changes are
I don't have patch notes. Off the top of my head:
--Heroics have all been re-tuned. We'd really like feedback on the Heroics this push.
--25 person raids have been re-tuned
--Some tuning changes to 10 person raids
--Many class changes. You won't like the ones made to your own class but you'll think the changes made to the 9 other classes are all overpowered.
--More Icecrown quests and polish. We'd LOVE more Icecrown quest feedback. Please use the in-game feedback UI or post in the quest forums.
--More Dalaran polish
--Performance updates and new performance logging to help get the servers in good condition.
--We're working on getting a beta Glyph vendor in the build so you guys will have quick and easy access to all of the glyphs for feedback. That system *might* make this push.
I'm not the patch note guy but that's my version of the patch notes.
Sons of Hodir have a bunch of other dailies that unlock at Honored. The spear quest I've mentioned a few pages back. There's also one where you use a worg to hunt invisible spies and another that involves feeding frozen King Arngrim.
All in all it's almost equivalent to Netherwing Ledge in terms of progression and amount of dailies, discounting the profession-based Netherwing dailies.
I'll hit Revered in a couple of days - we'll see if there's actually more. :P
How hard is it to get going with the Sons faction? From wowhead and beta forums posts, it seems that there's a 16-part quest chain They Took Our Men! - Quest - World of Warcraft that is followed up by another multi-part quest chain The Last of Her Kind - Quest - World of Warcraft before the Sons will even talk to the character. Which would be slightly annoying if the Sons are the primary source of shoulder enchants in the expansion.
And I finally noticed that the Honored shoulder enchants from the Sons of Hodir are the exact same as the Exalted shoulder enchants from the Aldor faction. I wonder if they'll add a Scryer counterpart as well.
The questline starts from the first camp (K3) you're breadcrumbed to (From Dalaran even!), and without going too much into spoilers, interweaves into the story arc of the zone and Halls of Lightning. I'd say that even alts would almost invariably end up doing the questline because it's laid out so well in terms of travel time, etc, has pretty decent rewards, and lets you get started with Sons of Hodir.
From my experience leveling through Storm Peaks, you do indeed have to do both of those quest chains to get introduced to the Sons. Once you do, there are 3 dailies at friendly, and more opening up as you gain reputation. This rep grind is so far the worst, simply due to the small number of dailies when compared to nearly any other faction. I also did not notice a tabard for them, although the quartermaster was just implemented and it could be added in later.
Sons of Hodir is kind of annoying to grind because they don't have a tabard (not sure if this is temporary), but once you do the quest chain to unlock the quests, it should take less than a week of dailies to get to honored, after which point I'm pretty sure you get new dailies. I'm not sure how bad the grind to exalted is but a week to get access to the honored shoulder enchants isn't too terrible. I do wonder how badly crowded those quest zones will be when people first get to them tho.
Was far less than a week for me to get into Honored, more like... 3-4 days. I didn't even do the quests that involve Halls of Lightning.
Edit:
Originally Posted by Rasputin
This rep grind is so far the worst, simply due to the small number of dailies when compared to nearly any other faction.
Huh? I have 6 dailies available to me at the moment. In contrast, Ebon Hold and Argent Crusade seem similar, Wolvar/Oracle have only 3 (But award 700/500/500 rep). The difference seems to be that rep level unlocks dailies for Sons, whereas questlines unlock dailies for Ebon/Argent Crusade.
Frosthold in contrast seems to have only 1 daily. I'm not too sure how you came up with your conclusion. :S
For those with unspent honor points prior to the release of the expansion, we will be offering a few upgrades and special rewards in next content patch solely for purchase via the honor system:
Cloak of Certain Reprieve
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
+18 Intellect
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 28 (0.71% @ L70).
Equip: Restores 8 mana per 5 sec.
Equip: Increases spell power by 33.
Sergeant's Reinforced Cape
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
+26 Intellect
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 30 (0.76% @ L70).
Equip: Increases spell power by 33.
The Gladiator's Resolution
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 26 (1.18% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 20 (0.51% @ L70).
Equip: Increases attack power by 56.
Equip: Increases your armor penetration rating by 18
Volanthius Shroud
Binds when picked up
Back
130 Armor
+42 Stamina
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 19 (0.86% @ L70).
Equip: Improves your resilience rating by 28 (0.71% @ L70).
Equip: Improves haste rating by 18 (1.14% @ L70).
Equip: Increases spell power by 33
Battlemaster's Resolve
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases attack power by 120.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)
Battlemaster's Courage
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Increases spell power by 70.
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)
Battlemaster's Celerity
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves haste rating by 60 (3.8% @ L70).
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)
Battlemaster's Aggression
Binds when picked up
Trinket
Requires Level 70
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 60 (2.72% @ L70).
Use: Increases maximum health by 1750 for 15 sec. Shares cooldown with other Battlemaster's trinkets. (3 Min Cooldown)
Please note that Gems that have been acquired through Honor will no longer be unique-equipped after the release of Patch 3.0.2. Also, they will no longer Bind on Pickup.
Also, all of the gems that can be purchased with honor will have the Bind on Pickup and Unique-Equipped tags removed so multiples of them can be equipped and they can be traded (or auctioned).
I think this is what will settle everyone down about losing all their points... buy gems and convert them into gold via the AH.
Huh? I have 6 dailies available to me at the moment. In contrast, Ebon Hold and Argent Crusade seem similar, Wolvar/Oracle have only 3 (But award 700/500/500 rep). The difference seems to be that rep level unlocks dailies for Sons, whereas questlines unlock dailies for Ebon/Argent Crusade.
Frosthold in contrast seems to have only 1 daily. I'm not too sure how you came up with your conclusion. :S
Bold is mine, and how I came to my conclusion. I'm not sure how other people work, but on my first character to 70 at the least, I quest through the last zone. There are usually decent gear upgrades as well as gold and rep rewards to be gained by doing so. This unlocks a good number of Ebon Hold/Argent Crusade Dailies. So once you've quested Icecrown, you're sitting on a hefty amount of rep as well as a good number of dailies to further that rep. In contrast, Sons rep is bottlenecked by initial rep and available dailies, forcing you to do those 3 available at friendly until you unlock honored, which allows you to do more, etc. This forced progression restricts your gain and makes it artificial, making it annoying(for me at least). There is also no rep tabard that I saw when I zipped past the quartermaster last time, though they may add/have added one. The combination of those two mechanics makes grinding rep more of a grind than the other reputations.
... I don't think another 250g (guesstimate price of 10-stat gems right before WotLK launches, a whole 75k honor's worth) is going to appease anyone.
Not that I think anyone -should- need appeasing in the first place. Honor reset could be seen miles away. :|
Re: Son's rep: It's going ridiculously fast compared to Ebon Hold at the moment; or maybe the EH dailies just need some adjustment - they take much, much longer to do on average. That plus tabard to push it even further if you want to hit exalted ASAP seems much closer to me to the textbook definition of a grind.
The only wrench in the works for Sons rep seems to be the need to complete a long (+ awesome, regardless) quest line to get started, and a minor bottleneck before hitting the 6-daily stretch.
The only wrench in the works for Sons rep seems to be the need to complete a long (+ awesome, regardless) quest line to get started, and a minor bottleneck before hitting the 6-daily stretch.
A quest like this would make a good canditate for an account wide flag when you do the quest once. I liked the BEM/Ogrila chain alot... for the first one or two times. It's a real pain to get groups for your 2nd or 3rd alt for the same old long quest chain that you already did on your main. But I guess this goes into the vein of making all long attunement chains an account wide flag so I'll leave it at that.
BEM's chain is much worse in the sense that you need a group to get 'attuned'. In contrast, alts, boosted or not, are very likely to do this particular chain (completely soloable) because of the quest rewards and xp/effort.
Erm, all I can say is, try +repping with the Sons. It's not as bad as it sounds. I'll shut up about the matter from now on.
I think part of the reason behind the honor reset is the restructuring of PvP gear costs.
If you wanted kit your Arms Warrior out in the full level 80 Savage Gladiator gear (Chest, Hands, Head, Legs, Shoulders, Two-Handed Weapon, Throwing Weapon), it would take you 41,600 Honor to do so.
In comparison, a level 70 set of the equivalent Season 2 items would cost 100,250 honor.
Granted, the Savage set also requires 2,400 Arena points, but I feel that if it takes you 2 months to accrue those points anyway, then 41k honor from BG dailies and the occasional PvP binge is hardly asking for too much.
The fact that they are forcing arena play on everyone wanting pvp gear is a disappointment. I prefer to not to see the two mixed. While I fully support the idea that any arena gear requires a significant rating I don't see the need to force the BG people into it. It will downgrade the play for those dedicated to arena. If the intent is just to fill brackets so active teams have something to do it is a poor solution. These are two styles of play and in some cases benefit from different gear and talent builds to be fully effective.
The fact they dropped tokens is a change in the right direction. This will allow players to play the BGs they enjoy and key Blizzard on to what they player base really enjoys versus what they think they should enjoy. It may also reveal which BGs have design issues that can be addressed quickly.
A quest like this would make a good canditate for an account wide flag when you do the quest once. I liked the BEM/Ogrila chain alot... for the first one or two times. It's a real pain to get groups for your 2nd or 3rd alt for the same old long quest chain that you already did on your main. But I guess this goes into the vein of making all long attunement chains an account wide flag so I'll leave it at that.
The quests to unlock sons of hodir are all solo however. Not that it wouldn't be tedious to do it the 5th time, but you won't need a group to get it done either.
We do have a plan to change the way our matchmaking system works. In essence, we want to seperate queue matchmaking from the point and rating system somewhat by applying a "gaussian distribution filter". Essentially this is still the Elo system with an "under-the-hood" rating controlling the matchmaking system that also persists for your character regardless of changing teams.
Translation: Your character will have a "secret value" tracked for them that the system uses to see where the character is supposed to be competing in arena.
In short if you have a 2k rated team with 2k personal rating and change team starting over at 1500, you will still get matched against higher rated opponents.
This is correct.
Hopefully this will work, and implemented before season 5 starts in earnest.
Depending on how this is implemented, this may gives access to 1650 AR items for "1400 rating" teams:
- End of season X: Intentionally lose each and every match, dropping to ~1100 team, personal and secret rating
- Begining of season X+1: Compete against "1100 rating" teams, easily reaching 1650 team/personal rating (and ~1300 secret rating)
Perhaps having the secret rating changes far more quicker that visible ratings can prevent that ? Or having personal rating reset only if higher than 1500 and stay the same if lower ? (But I'm sure the latter won't be popular ...)
And even higher ratings teams will benefits from this strategy, giving them easy wins at the start. (And my second solution won't work for this)
So it seems it may be as frustrating as current season reset, except for those who don't follow the intended path ...
The under-the-hood rating system doesn't have to follow the same mechanics as the current rating system. The visible rating system is created with a notion of progression in mind, a system designed for accuracy would probably push higher much faster based on win chances, so a group winning at their rating level starts to see more appropriate tems fast. Your theoretical group would have their secret rating raise quickly to their real level. The under-the-hood system doesn't even have to resemble the current ratings system at all. I would probably go for some sort of limited-memory system that looks at your track record for the past n weeks and calculates a priori rather than the current system that has each match calculate a change in rating from your current standing.
The other option is that it starts at 1500 regardless of the ratings of the members, and let it equilibrate as quickly as it can.
It doesn't have to rely only on games played like the current system does either. I could easily see it using the rating requirements on any gear you have as part of the "secret rating".
I don't understand why Blizzard is so insistent on having ratings reset? I don't see what advantage it gives. It seems like a lot of problems would disappear with permanent personal ratings that cannot be reset.
Or is the plan to have the secret rating reset at the start of each Season as well?
Now when I remake my top 20 team, I'll take away 30 team rating points from players just short of their shoulders/weapon per win, rather than 15, and will lose zero team rating if I somehow manage to lose! These large point losses will inspire those who have been working hard and playing against teams at the same level as them to enjoy pvp even more, resulting in increased pvp participation, continued monthly subscriptions and higher revenue for Blizzard!
/end sarcasm
Seriously: Why the hell are personal ratings not permanent yet, and why do we need a "secret rating" whose end result won't change anything except how fast remade teams can take points from low rated teams? What's wrong with personal rating simply not resetting and using that?
Something tells me 1800 players will be even more unhappy by losing 30 points per game to remade teams rather than only 15.
Now when I remake my top 20 team, I'll take away 30 team rating points from players just short of their shoulders/weapon per win, rather than 15, and will lose zero team rating if I somehow manage to lose! These large point losses will inspire those who have been working hard and playing against teams at the same level as them to enjoy pvp even more, resulting in increased pvp participation, continued monthly subscriptions and higher revenue for Blizzard!
/end sarcasm
Seriously: Why the hell are personal ratings not permanent yet, and why do we need a "secret rating" whose end result won't change anything except how fast remade teams can take points from low rated teams? What's wrong with personal rating simply not resetting and using that?
Something tells me 1800 players will be even more unhappy by losing 30 points per game to remade teams rather than only 15.
You missed the point completely, apparently. You won't play against 1800 players after you remake your top 20 team. The entire point of the "secret rating" thing is you will continue being matched against other top 20 teams. I suspect that yes, this will allow you to cause them to lose more rating than they should if you should win (but remember it's a fair match in terms of you winning, you're playing against the same team you would have if you hadn't remade your team), but this won't much matter since there will be no reason to remake teams in the first place.
You missed the point completely, apparently. You won't play against 1800 players after you remake your top 20 team. The entire point of the "secret rating" thing is you will continue being matched against other top 20 teams. I suspect that yes, this will allow you to cause them to lose more rating than they should if you should win (but remember it's a fair match in terms of you winning, you're playing against the same team you would have if you hadn't remade your team), but this won't much matter since there will be no reason to remake teams in the first place.
Except to specifically bring down the team ratings of people in your secret range.
If you're at 1800, you reroll a team and you're now at 1500, but still playing against 1800 teams, you're going to be taking ~27 points away from them now, but the 1500-1750 teams are safe at the moment.
Except to specifically bring down the team ratings of people in your secret range.
If you're at 1800, you reroll a team and you're now at 1500, but still playing against 1800 teams, you're going to be taking ~27 points away from them now, but the 1500-1750 teams are safe at the moment.
Wouldn't it screw over your own ratings as well? When you bring down that 1800 team to 1650, their wins against you will drag down your "secret rating".
Are there people who'd reroll teams for the sake of rating griefing? (constantly reroll new teams in order to bring down those with equal "secret rating")
Couldn'the points gained/lost be influenced by the 'secret' rating? If so there are plenty of solutions where 1800 teams don't lose 30 points just because they're facing an equally-skilled but reformed team.
09/24/08, 1:42 PM
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