Corronach

If that is their intention /facepalm. How can you create Arenas and Raiding in the same game and expect people not to respec nearly daily? If programming the respec option is too difficult they should just remove the cost, look at beta, imo 1c respecs has made the game a lot more fun.

 

Copernicus

World of Warcraft (English) Forums -> Wrath of the Lich King Honor Update

 

Gink

What were those new Honor rewards? I've missed that. Also, that post is kind of unclear on if they're ditching said new rewards or not, though it sounds as that's what they're doing.

Gink

 

Dram

The new rewards are Cloaks (slightly better then the badge ones) and new battlemaster trinkets that had better passive bonuses then the previous ones.

 

Mideci

I believe most players are not respeccing now and that believe has nothing to do with dual spec... It has to do with the fact respeccing is costly and hugely inconvenient -- especially if you lack mods. So I'm not at all sure what your point is, but your "only if..." construction doesn't apply to what I said.

People don't do the respeccing in great numbers. With dual spec, they at least could maintain a solid arena spec and a solid pve spec. How this would be bad is totally unclear to me.

Nothing at all with inscription or beta is fixing -- in any way -- the fact that the majority of PVE specs are not at all serious as the competitive pvp/arena specs. Nor will they ever be.

 

Jagiya

Wow... I can't believe they revoked that. I guess they conceded to the complaints. Such a shame. I was looking forward to the whole "even playing field" and "exceptionally populated" battlegrounds as everyone rushed to compete in an entirely fresh bracket of gameplay.

Now I'm annoyed that I'm gonna have to spend the next few weeks farming 75k and collecting all my tokens so that I can be a part of that "even playing field" 2 months from now.

 

Addled

The issue (at least for me) is that maintaining separate sets of gear, and throwing money down the drain continuously respeccing between Arena and PvE, is ridiculously annoying. Now it's about to get even more annoying with Inscription, since I now have to pay to reglyph every time I respec. This system is actively discouraging respeccing.

Right now, I'll probably end up leveling a PvE toon and a PvP toon and not bother respeccing them at any time. I don't think Blizzard wants this, but this is what they're encouraging with a system like this.

Not to mention that the whole "dual spec" system seems to be vaporware. We heard a lot about it a few months ago, but Blizzard has been quiet about it for quite some time, which makes me think they dropped the idea and aren't telling us for fear of a backlash.

 

Ngita

Did you suddenly spend all your tokens and existing honor? The base assumption based on behavior at the start of TBC and EU forums information was that we would keep honor and tokens except for this last week. Personally I expect to spend some honor and tokens post 3.0 regardess as I found that after a week of skipping the pvp daily I missed it.

 

Krag

They are going to inflate the honor prices and gain at 80 instead so those saved up 75k will buy you far less items than now.

 

Jagiya

Until we see what these inflated values are, all we've got to go on is the original list:
Considering the speculations that were made when this list was released; I think it's safe to say that all goes out the window. Because with these costs, it's easy to recognise that a Warrior could complete an entire Savage Gladiator set and pick up a 2h, 1h+Shield, Throwing Weapon, and still have enough points left over to buy 3 pieces of Hateful Gladiator gear when he has enough PR. Of course, our example Warrior is still limited by Arena points for the first few weeks, but that's more time spent in arena and less time spent farming honor. It's obvious that something will have to change, I'm just curious to see what.

 

Addled

Honestly, I don't see what's so bad about removing the arena point requirements from the Savage set and letting PvPers collect a full set of blues right off the bat. If they don't, then either: 1. PvPers will go into Arena with leveling greens competing with other PvPers in full S4; or 2. PvPers will have to do instances to get better gear, and we will never hear the end of whining that PvPers have to PvE to compete in PvP.

This is especially bad considering the fact that a lot of casual PvPers will never move higher than the 1600s, due to lack of skill or not having access to the right team spec/comp. For them, what is the point of Arenaing if they'll never get a set of epics? Might as well hand them some blues and let them work for a non-rating required set of "weak" epics.

Also, this gives a nice base set for PvEers to build on. Sure, some of the stats are "useless" resilience, but the blue PvP sets are decent for healers and DPS. Tanks, however, have to collect from other sources, since resilience no longer works in PvE.

 

Talgog

Easy. Quadruple the honor cost and quadruple the honor gained from 71+ (kills, quests, BG honor, 71+ turn-ins). Current stockpile is massively devalued without being entirely destroyed and it's still possible to gear up reasonably quickly for a new player or alt. Inflation 101, applied with perfect effeciency because Blizzard controls the market where you can spend your currency and fixes prices.

There is blue crafted gear that is iLevel 187 blue. Savage Gladiator is iLevel 200 blue. Crafted is obviously passable and is significantly more survivable than even Brutal is. And the Titansteel weapons are apprently BoE's as opposed to Blacksmith capstones, so you can buy those as well and thump anyone who is still using Brutal weapons.

There is starter gear, it just isn't the honor gear.

 

TSplodey

I don't see how this belief is still doing the rounds, especially a place like this. Resilience is not changing in regards to PvE in the slightest, it was a blue post taken out of context that didn't say anything of the sort.

 

MatthewDB

Are you sure? I remember reading a post that was not in the slightest hard to understand that basically said resilience would not function inside a PvE instance.

 

Jalani

I think this post answers your question about resillience and PvE instances.

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Parry Items for DK tanking

 

Camaris

The only solution does seem to be a massive inflation of honor gains. I think this inflation will mostly occur in Wintergrasp, as a brief Wowhead search indicated that WG victory is worth a whopping 5k honor (losing still gives 2.5k). There are also conflicting reports of 1500 honor/500 arena, or even 7500 honor/150 arena. Whatever it is, it's still significantly more than a regular AV win.

Then there's also the WG Commendations (heirloom item granting 1k honor), apparently buyable with items that are rewarded by daily quests (Stone Keeper shards). These daily quests are somewhat PvE-y (although taking place in WG).

So, depending on the actual timescale of WG, of which I am not sure of (does it take an hour or a whole weekend to win WG?), we could be looking at a few thousand honor points per day. Even more if they ever implement "Wintergrasp weekends"

 

• alcaras

I thought Wintergrasp's honor/arena point rewards are just for beta, to speed up gearing people.

 

Addled

Mea culpa then, I was almost certain I read a blue post about it, but I can't seem to find it on Bluetracker.

With a quick Google search I dug up this:
Maintankadin :: View topic - Resilience not working in PvE Source Please (Scroll to bottom where it says Alpha Patch Notes) and
Chain Heal!: WotLK tidbit

So originally in Alpha, WotLK was supposed to remove resilience from PvE, but it seems Blizzard backtracked a bit.




I'm pretty sure the blues have already confirmed that Wintergrasp will only award Arena points for the beta, not for live. I guess Blizzard is still tuning the amount of honor points from Wintergrasp.

Implicitly confirmed here: WoW BlueTracker: Petition:NO to Arena for crappy blue gear !

 

Mideci

Well, it appears they ought to plan on massively inflating all honor gains from Wrath, not just Wintergrasp. That would nerf "honor storage" without punishing everyone else for the small pool of people who stored honor and then screamed loudly when they heard it was going away.

Or else those people who got this reversed are going to be in the "be careful what you wish for" pool. The small savings in time the 75k honor achieved will be a one-time tiny time savings and the permanent pain of grinding of much larger honor amounts will be with us forever.

 

Sydane

Yes, in the end the non-honor reset will hurt the people that farm and save honor more than helping them. In BC each arena season meant having a stockpile of honor was a significant advantage. If honor rates had stayed low, yes they wouldn't have had any to start off with, but later on that 75k they would have stockpiled would have gotten them a lot of gear. Now it will get them very little, and the initial stockpile won't compensate for how mediocre the two or three during the expansion will be. Indeed, be careful what you wish for, you just might get it.

I don't think you can take that as anything other than a stupid post getting locked.

Empathy does not imply approval.

 

Emeraude

Seems all Burning Crusade Raid Bosses/Mobs have had their HP reduced 30% across the board according to MMO-Champion. I imagine it's because of no more chain potion chugging, multi-heroisms, etc.

The Sunwell Plateau
Monster Health (TBC) Health (WotLK)
Sunblade Protector 550,000 387,000
Sunblade Slayer 240,000 171,000
Sunblade Arch Mage 190,000 136,000
Sunblade Cabalist 190,000 136,000
Sunblade Dawn Priest 190,000 136,000
Kalecgos 3,700,000 2,180,000

The Black Temple
Monster Health (TBC) Health (WotLK)
Coilskar Harpooner 170,000 120,000
Coilskar Soothsayer 170,000 120,000
Coilskar Sea-Caller 170,000 120,000
Dragon Turtle 100,000 73,353
Aqueous Spawn 66,000 44,012
Aqueous Lord 440,000 309,000
Leviathan 550,000 387,000
High Warlord Naj'entus 3,800,000 2,655,000
Dragonmaw Wind Reaver 200,000 140,000
Dragonmaw Sky Stalker 200,000 140,000
Dragonmaw Wyrm Caller 200,000 140,000
Bonechewer Worker 60,000 17605
Bonechewer Taskmaster 170,000 120,000
Illidari Fearbringer 550,000 387,000
Supremus 4,500,000 3,186,000

Serpentshrine Cavern
Monster Health (TBC) Health (WotLK)
Hydross The Unstable 3,400,000 2,390,000

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CX81UJZ8
For the lurking Phoenix Wright faithful.
What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

 

Axl_Stukov

I'd say it's more of a bug then anything, MMo Champ is saying Hydross is at 2.4mil, when about 2 weeks ago I did a SSC pug on the PTR and he was at 1.6mil. At least I hope it's a bug.

 

Mideci

I'm all but certain it's not a bug. There are issues on some fights where there would basically not be healer mana, caster mana, etc. Rather than test/tweak/etc. a bunch of about of to be obsolete content, they just flat out nerfed it. All the changes with mana return, potion removal, etc. are being worked around lvl 80 talents and content and gear. Level 70 characters and gear are simply not being considered. This "fix", however crude, will likely work and make everything quite easily killable in the remaining weeks of TBC. Enjoy the epics.

 

Calixtus

I think you're making few odd assumptions there. First, if they had indeed made the most expensive item with an honour cost only 12K honor - except for the trinket which might stay at 40K - there is no particular reason to assume they'd let us stash 75K honor between seasons. They're wiping arena points to even the field around each season, but they'd let us stash up honour that would translate into a larger amount of new items than the max cap translate to in terms of items today? Possible, yes - I could even lay down an argument as to why one would want it to happen - in line with the stated intention of other changes and therefore likely, no.

Second, the most likely if not explicitly stated way of dealing with chached honour is, has been previously stated, inflation. Add a zero (or whatever) to all honour gains at 80, add a zero to all item costs, raise max cap accordingly. If they do go with inflation, maintaining the 75K cap is not a law of nature that can not be overturned. Why would they keep the max cap the same if they go with inflation? If memory serves me, the primary reason for it's current size is "twice the most expensive item and then some" (again, ignoring the 40K trinket oddballs belated arrival at the scene). Inflation as a solution will not have any effect down the line - except a bunch of numbers looking bigger, which is somewhat silly but not a problem - as long as you don't intentionally fiddle with it, by say, not raising the max cap.

In the proccess however, you avoid antagonizing lower level players, antagonizing everyone by wiping character progression in a game that thrives on people's desire to progress, and you decrease the likelyhood of someone concluding that there's really nothing they want to do before WotlK anyway, so they might as well cancel for a month.

 

Sydane

They have stated there is no intention of raising the honor cap. There has been no statement they will be wiping arena points between seasons, only for the expansion. It is certainly possible they will wipe them between seasons, but given that they capitulated on the honor reset ostensibly because there was precedent for not wiping honor, they most likely won't wipe arena points between seasons as there is precedent there as well. Yes, they certainly could change the system to wipe everything from arena season to season, but there's a big difference for not being able to save up for a massive early buff, and screwing over someone who comes up a few points short of the item they wanted before the end of a season. As such an honor reset in the middle of an expansion is extremely unlikely.

The percentage of players that will cancel for one month before the expansion is phenomenally small to the point of being nominal. It's not a realistic behaviorism for subscription based business. They might stop playing for a month and come back, or stop playing for a month and eventually cancel for good, or just cancel and not come back for a while. But Blizzard isn't doing anything based on the idea that people will cancel just for October and then come back in November.

Resetting honor certainly caused outcry because it did go against precedent, it upset the vocal minority that stockpiles honor, and perhaps most importantly, it seemed like a last minute change of mind after months of pointing towards it not happening. However, anyone who looked at the big picture would have realized they were better off with a reset and non-inflation, than they were with a non-reset, as the honor cap is a finite point which is unlikely to increase at the same amount as inflation does. Unfortunately I think the moronic minority thought that they were going to keep their honor points and also have items sell for 6k each, thus giving them a full set instantly at 80. Anyone who looked at that rationally knew it wasn't going to happen.

Amusingly enough, I think the real mistake they made was not putting something totally "useless" yet very appealing into the game for honor with this announcement. The trinkets and cloaks meant nothing to most people, and we all knew the gems would deflate so much in value it wasn't a good gold conversion. If they had announced something like an armored nether drake for 60k honor and 75 of each token, people would have jumped all over it and not cared in the least about the reset. If they had stuck with their decision instead of giving in, and provided something along those lines, more people would have ended up happy. All they have done now is give in twice to the whining masses in the course of two weeks (brewfest mounts being the other), just empowering that group to whine all the more in the future.

Empathy does not imply approval.