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04/16/08, 8:58 AM
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#2076
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Liebestod
I wouldn't worry too much about skilling up on accumulated mats when WotLK will probably introduce a bunch of new recipes that cheaply use new mats. It's not only simpler, but it'll probably be straight-up cheaper as well. I mean, I don't think anyone skilled up their enchanting from 300 to 320 on 20 Crusaders when WotLK came out, not when you could disenchant a random green and get a skillup off of that.
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I can't be the only one who got my first ~10 skillups or so off of Brilliant Wizard Oil though. ^_^ Kept it in my bank and used it when I started raiding!
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04/16/08, 10:53 AM
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#2077
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Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Kul Tiras (EU)
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Originally Posted by Metrosexuelf
Actually it was present in BWL (weapons only) and AQ (where everything had that horrible bug design). Personally I don't care for it. Weapons and armor should look interesting in their own right and maybe have a bit of a backstory/flavor to them and not necessarily take on the 'theme' of the instance they drop from.
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I don't have a problem with 'themed' gear, but there is sometimes a clear discrepancy between names and looks. Especially for paladin gear, I don't think "High Justicar Legplates" (2.3 badge loot) should look like bark. Ashkandi, presumably being Anduin Lothar's blade, also probably should not have looked so dragon-y. Similarly, Zul'Aman has a few items that have Quel'dorei names, but troll looks. Although interestingly, they did once rename "Ancient Sin'dorei Longbow" to "Ancient Amani Longbow", showing they do care for details like this when there is time to fix it.
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04/16/08, 11:13 AM
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#2078
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King Hippo
Merple
Undead Priest
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Camaris
I don't have a problem with 'themed' gear, but there is sometimes a clear discrepancy between names and looks. Especially for paladin gear, I don't think "High Justicar Legplates" (2.3 badge loot) should look like bark. Ashkandi, presumably being Anduin Lothar's blade, also probably should not have looked so dragon-y. Similarly, Zul'Aman has a few items that have Quel'dorei names, but troll looks. Although interestingly, they did once rename "Ancient Sin'dorei Longbow" to "Ancient Amani Longbow", showing they do care for details like this when there is time to fix it.
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It might sound WoW Forums-esque, but bring back the paladin battle-kilt. I think everyone agrees that Judgement was the best set for paladins, and we wouldn't want druids and shamans to have all the fun.
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-In our country, any CBC reporter can dream of becoming head of state.
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04/16/08, 2:10 PM
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#2079
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Camaris
Although interestingly, they did once rename "Ancient Sin'dorei Longbow" to "Ancient Amani Longbow", showing they do care for details like this when there is time to fix it.
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I believe that was fixed also because there are no "ancient sin'dorei" as the blood elves are recent. High elves are quel'dorei. Although I agree that it is more appropriate for a dungeon's bosses to be dropping items that are related to the boss, in both thematic appearance and lore.
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04/16/08, 2:48 PM
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#2080
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Prinsesa
Ring - Stats requires 2 Void Crystals and 2 LPS. As a Blood Elf, my enchanting is capped out at 385.
The recipe is yellow right now and goes green at 400. That's 15 yellow skill ups. With a 50% chance for a skill-up per cast, that's 30 enchants, or 60 Voids and LPS each.
At 400, the recipe goes grey at 415. That's 15 green skill ups. With a 25% chance for a skill-up per cast, that's 60 enchants, or 120 Voids and LPS each, for a total of 180 Void Crystals and Large Prismatic Shards. For a non-Blood Elf, going from 375 to 385 required 10 orange skill-ups, upping the total to 200 Void Crystals and Large Prismatic Shards.
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I'm pretty sure that it doesn't go "yellow = 50%, green = 25%". I'm pretty sure that it was determined to be a linear drop from 100% on your last orange skill to 0% after your last green. That last point in green is **MUCH** more difficult then the first point, and is nowhere near 25%. I've seen data on this linear theory, but don't have a link handy. It has been pretty accurate in my casual observation while leveling several tradeskills on my army of alts, including switching a lock to tailoring this past weekend.
Assuming the linear theory is correct, a skill like ring stats that goes from yellow to grey over a 30 point spread will require on average 150 casts to cap it. Assuming 25g per shard or void, that is a cost of 15k. Personally I would feel that is a bit steep. Personally I would save my cash for purchasing Northrend greens "of the wolf" - I think you would get a lot farther.
(e) Whoops. Thats 450 casts, or 45k gold.
Last edited by oldmandennis : 04/16/08 at 3:47 PM.
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04/16/08, 3:13 PM
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#2081
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Don Flamenco
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Its always going to be cheaper and easier to level your professions using the Northrend materials/new recipes. I can't think of any case where making TBC recipes would be cheaper.
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04/16/08, 4:08 PM
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#2082
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Don Flamenco
Draenei Shaman
Earthen Ring
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Originally Posted by Kumar
Its always going to be cheaper and easier to level your professions using the Northrend materials/new recipes. I can't think of any case where making TBC recipes would be cheaper.
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I'll point out that while it won't be fast, you'll be able to level Alchemy for free for a while if you have made some of the right discoveries. For example, if you have "transmute water to shadow" and "transmute shadow to water", you can use one primal and shove it back and forth for a while. At currently maxed-out skill, the transmute is still orange.
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04/16/08, 6:22 PM
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#2083
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Great Tiger
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Originally Posted by Douglas
I'll point out that while it won't be fast, you'll be able to level Alchemy for free for a while if you have made some of the right discoveries. For example, if you have "transmute water to shadow" and "transmute shadow to water", you can use one primal and shove it back and forth for a while. At currently maxed-out skill, the transmute is still orange.
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On the flip side, I'm sure that the first alchemy recipes you get in WotLK use new ingredients very common to the starting area. (like felweed in HFP) As a bonus, you'll have pots/elixirs for leveling use. (Some new +All stats/+dmg pots, I'd bet)
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04/16/08, 7:42 PM
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#2084
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Piston Honda
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I sincerely hope consumables scale even less than they did from 1.0 to 2.0, even post-nerfing of flasks and such. Right now, flasks still give you an insane boost, near or over an entire tier's worth of gear upgrade. That or alchemy is just wiped from the memory of all denizens of WoW, per some crazy shit Malygos pulls. That'd be cool too.
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04/16/08, 7:47 PM
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#2085
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Honorary Toastr
Night Elf Priest
Dragonblight
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Eh? There was already a dramatic decrease in how consumeables scale. I mean just comparing flasks alone... from 120 spellpower to 70 spellpower. And relatively compared to the gear, the different is massive. If 70 spellpower is an entire tier of gear, I can't imagine what 120 spellpower at 60 would of been.... 3 tiers of gear?
That said, Alchemy's forte is consumeables and thus it will remain relevant. It's what Blizzard wants. Alchemy needs a purpose.
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04/16/08, 7:49 PM
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#2086
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Ask about our dystopian future internship program
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Originally Posted by Tunch
I sincerely hope consumables scale even less than they did from 1.0 to 2.0, even post-nerfing of flasks and such. Right now, flasks still give you an insane boost, near or over an entire tier's worth of gear upgrade. That or alchemy is just wiped from the memory of all denizens of WoW, per some crazy shit Malygos pulls. That'd be cool too.
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Gurg did this post better, but with evidence and relevance to the current state of the game. Have you not played since 2.0?
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< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?
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04/17/08, 1:14 AM
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#2087
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Piston Honda
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Yes, hi, my point is simply that it remains a requirement. It was a requirement pre-TBC, its a requirement now. If they make new shit in WotlK, it continues to be a requirement (unless they grow some balls and create some actual raid gear progression that matters for gear checks). I was expressing my opinion that I dislike the requirement.
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04/17/08, 1:44 AM
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#2088
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Debitum Naturae
Night Elf Druid
Ravencrest (EU)
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While a Flask or 2xElixir is a better situation by a fair chunk than it used to be, Mana Potions have forever decimated all attempts at regeneration as a worthwhile raiding stat on gear (100MP5 > 1 Tier of gear in terms of Regen).
Think of a Mage in T4/T5/T6/T7* content for example, why should he need to gain any regeneration from gear when hes in T6/T7* content if he was fullfilled (albeit by a SP no doubt..) in terms of his mana requirement in T4/T5 gear.
His SP, mana-gems and Potions will continue to be there and he isn't increasing the cost of his spells so what further need is there for it?
Healers are the only real classes which continue to downrank, which is why regeneration on gear there is more accepted than for DPSers - because in the end even if its less efficient they can still increase their healing output by upranking and using more mana.
Haste is actually a clever stat to be introduced, it has the only potential way to allow these classes to consume higher mana as they progress (and in the case of healers, without loosing large chunks of efficiency)... and thus need better regeneration to sustain it (beyond their static amounts outside of gear).
I'll admit I hated the implementation of it for healers back when it came in (GCD changes pushed it over into being quite good), but I hope it becomes a more predominant stat in WoTLK if it will help break down the anti-regeneration stigma people have in their mind - and ideally this should provide a downplay on the significance of potions when that static amount just wont cut it in the end tiers of raiding and you will need additional regen (allowing a better balance of stats on gear).
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04/17/08, 1:57 AM
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#2089
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Liebestod
I wouldn't worry too much about skilling up on accumulated mats when WotLK will probably introduce a bunch of new recipes that cheaply use new mats. It's not only simpler, but it'll probably be straight-up cheaper as well. I mean, I don't think anyone skilled up their enchanting from 300 to 320 on 20 Crusaders when WotLK came out, not when you could disenchant a random green and get a skillup off of that.
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I went to both 320 BS and Enchanting before I swapped to outworld mats, Brilliant mana Oil like Zifna and something that used Nether Essence, for Blacksmithiing I made Obsidian belts using mats I had picked up in buik a month or two before, was it the cheapest option? perhaps not as I remember by 3 days later I could have resold those mats for quadruple what I paid for them. But it was cheap on time, plently of time to gather pre expansion with no raids and the only things to do was gather,level alts and PVP. As compared to fighting for every Fel iron spawn in Hellfire post expansion and the race to level.
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04/17/08, 4:08 AM
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#2090
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Don Flamenco
Blood Elf Paladin
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Originally Posted by Merple
It might sound WoW Forums-esque, but bring back the paladin battle-kilt. I think everyone agrees that Judgement was the best set for paladins, and we wouldn't want druids and shamans to have all the fun.
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I don't think plate skirts are the way to go. Judgement look was good, but would be better with leggings instead of kilt. 
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04/17/08, 9:18 AM
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#2091
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Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Kul Tiras (EU)
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I wonder if they will be creating new 'old' Tier sets for Deathknights. I guess they can just take the paladin sets and do some gothic coloring to it, but I assume that Molten Core bosses would need to drop Tier 1 Deathknight armor pieces, even if no-one will actually bother to go there. The alternative would be saying "Deathknights can only do new instances!". I'm really looking forward to DK sets. Warlocks and Paladins have gotten a few of the best designed pieces of armor, so imagine what a deathknight will get.
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04/17/08, 9:31 AM
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#2092
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Bald Bull
Gnome Warrior
Earthen Ring
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Originally Posted by Camaris
I wonder if they will be creating new 'old' Tier sets for Deathknights. I guess they can just take the paladin sets and do some gothic coloring to it, but I assume that Molten Core bosses would need to drop Tier 1 Deathknight armor pieces, even if no-one will actually bother to go there. The alternative would be saying "Deathknights can only do new instances!". I'm really looking forward to DK sets. Warlocks and Paladins have gotten a few of the best designed pieces of armor, so imagine what a deathknight will get.
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Lack of tier pieces doesn't actually prevent a class from entering the instance. It just means they don't get that particular loot type. For MC and BWL this means a nearly complete lack of armor pieces, but that doesn't really actually matter in any way. For BC instances, there are non-tiered armor alternatives for most if not all slots if anyone cares about obsolete raids.
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04/17/08, 10:51 AM
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#2093
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Von Kaiser
Dwarf Priest
Shadowsong (EU)
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I really like what I see in the interview notes with Chris Robinson and J. Allen Brack. Some pages ago many posts circled around how TBC (at least to quite alot of people) failed in being a coherent continent where quest lines, graphics and story crossed the zones. I am one of those.

Insider: Speaking of Wrath of the Lich King -- How is Northrend progressing? What are your feelings about going from the world style of Outland to the very different Northrend setting?
Chris Robinson: Coming up with the high concept look of The Burning Crusade was a great experience, and as a team we really enjoyed working in this style. For a designer, it’s always a breath of fresh air to have some new elements to play with. So naturally it’s great to now have this opportunity to go back to the more traditional elements of fantasy that comprise the look and feel of Wrath of the Lich King, even though this poses new challenges in and of itself. Northrend has a very Nordic, gothic fantasy feel that’s a departure from the wild scenescapes of Outland.
One way we’re attempting to reflect these new visual themes is by making sure all the item rewards of Northrend faithfully embody the new style. From the get-go, players will earn trophies of war that are very “Northrendy” -- for example, say, a two-handed axe that’s made of a dragon jaw, covered with spikes, leather, and other traditional materials. We want players to see the new gear and think, “Yeah, that guy’s been to Northrend.”
Insider: What sort of challenges are there in this artistic transition from The Burning Crusade to Wrath of the Lich King?
J. Allen Brack: [...] Another challenge was how to balance Northrend’s cold northern climate with the need for diverse environments. We can’t just cover everything in snow and ice, because players would get bored of that quickly. But if we approach the snow and the ice as environmental clues for the player, we can actually use it as a powerful storytelling tool. There’s a story arc that ties all the zones of the expansion together, and the snow becomes a visual component of this common theme. The relatively green and “temperate” starting areas will be fairly densely populated, but as the story progresses we expect players to get more spread out. By slowly adding more and more snow, we can enhance that growing sense of isolation and dread. It’s very much what Arthas must have experienced when he wandered the wastes of Northrend after destroying Mal’Ganis.
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I believe that is as close as it gets to admit that Outland failed in those departments and that Blizzard is trying very hard to do better in Northrend. Good news imo.
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04/17/08, 12:00 PM
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#2094
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Abbi
Lack of tier pieces doesn't actually prevent a class from entering the instance. It just means they don't get that particular loot type. For MC and BWL this means a nearly complete lack of armor pieces, but that doesn't really actually matter in any way. For BC instances, there are non-tiered armor alternatives for most if not all slots if anyone cares about obsolete raids.
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Speaking of Tier pieces, how are they going to fit the Death Knight onto the existing Tier Tokens (Assuming they still use them)? Especially if the Death Knight isn't the last of the Hero Classes to be introduced into the game, either they are going to have to give a lot more bosses token drops or put a lot more competition on existing tokens.
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04/17/08, 12:05 PM
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#2095
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Co-starring: The Egg
Blood Elf Paladin
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Originally Posted by Univirsul
Speaking of Tier pieces, how are they going to fit the Death Knight onto the existing Tier Tokens (Assuming they still use them)? Especially if the Death Knight isn't the last of the Hero Classes to be introduced into the game, either they are going to have to give a lot more bosses token drops or put a lot more competition on existing tokens.
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Well, there's three basic solutions I see that are likely to happen to that issue.
The first would be to decrease the amount of different tokens to two. Less chance of not getting your token, but more competition on each individual token. The second would be to increase the amount of different tokens to five. More chance of not getting your token, less competition on each individual token. The third option would be scrapping the idea of class specific sets, and instead going for role specific sets (With roles being things like tanking, healing, physical DPS and caster DPS). Downside here being that it makes each class lose some of it's uniqueness as you wouldn't be able to tell them apart by the looks of their armor, and of course the fact that even within a role there's variations on the stats preferred (Rogues, Hunters, Feral Druids, Enhancement Shamans and DPS Warrior might all be physical DPS, but the latter two want Agility far less than the first three do).
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buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
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04/17/08, 12:15 PM
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#2096
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Don Flamenco
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Or Deathknights could be governed not by a tier amor pieces but an armor upgrade system from the level they start with, they just keep upgrading their current armor in terms of stats without actually replacing it.
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04/17/08, 12:26 PM
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#2097
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Don Flamenco
Undead Warlock
Wildhammer (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kumar
Or Deathknights could be governed not by a tier amor pieces but an armor upgrade system from the level they start with, they just keep upgrading their current armor in terms of stats without actually replacing it.
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That would work statwise, but it would be horribly boring. Just ask the druids how happy they are with staring a bears ass since level 10.
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04/17/08, 12:30 PM
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#2098
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Co-starring: The Egg
Blood Elf Paladin
Azjol-Nerub (EU)
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Originally Posted by Tacitus
That would work statwise, but it would be horribly boring. Just ask the druids how happy they are with staring a bears ass since level 10.
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It'd also cause some other issues, quite apart from being boring. That is assuming we're implying here that they won't need to loot anything to upgrade their gear, of course if they need to loot something for upgrades, we're back on the first point of discussing how we add this loot for Death Knights.
As for the kind of issues I see if the upgrade is "automatic" for your progress, well, even if the class itself isn't as strong as other classes in specific roles, there's a pretty big advantage in basically always having the best gear you can get at any point of progress.
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buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
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04/17/08, 12:38 PM
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#2099
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Chicken
It'd also cause some other issues, quite apart from being boring. That is assuming we're implying here that they won't need to loot anything to upgrade their gear, of course if they need to loot something for upgrades, we're back on the first point of discussing how we add this loot for Death Knights.
As for the kind of issues I see if the upgrade is "automatic" for your progress, well, even if the class itself isn't as strong as other classes in specific roles, there's a pretty big advantage in basically always having the best gear you can get at any point of progress.
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I'm really doubting the idea that Blizzard would remove obtainable armor for the Death Knight considering that would only cause problems with future Hero Classes. Who knows maybe bosses will end up just dropping a lot more of everything to try to even out all the classes. Maybe they will involve another "Sunmote" type situation where a Death Knight can exchange, say a Warrior token for the Death Knight one?
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04/17/08, 12:48 PM
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#2100
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Debitum Naturae
Night Elf Druid
Ravencrest (EU)
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Saw this from a blue post today:
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The challenges for hardcore players will remain though, because Naxxramas is a big dungeon that will not be easy to complete all the way through. The hardcore players can push into the higher content from there.
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Perhaps wing bosses, and atleast the Frostwyrm Lair will remain fairly aloof from the rest of the instance then, im happy there is some information that it wont all be a complete walk-over atleast..
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