So, according to bosskillers (yeah, I know), Supremus's hateful strike happens every 5 seconds.
We had a little trouble with it eating our melee today, and when I checked the combat log, I see this:
8/6 22:52:23.265 Supremus's Hateful Strike missed Dragonguard.
8/6 22:52:24.937 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Dragonguard for 8543. (723 blocked)
8/6 22:52:26.203 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Dragonguard for 8280. (723 blocked)
8/6 22:52:27.265 Supremus's Hateful Strike was parried by Teckbot.
8/6 22:52:28.609 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Teckbot for 9375. (344 blocked)
5 hits within 6 seconds. And this was not an isolated incident - almost every single melee died to a combo attack where supremus would hit our offtank once or twice, move onto a second tank in melee range, hit them down and then 1shot the melee with another hurtful.
Is this normal behavior and bosskillers is just incorrectly attributing a 5sec cooldown to the ability, or is it a bug?
Here's supremus beating down the offtank, hammering away at a rogue and then going back to the offtank after a heal landed.
8/6 23:11:39.953 Supremus's Hateful Strike was dodged by Dragonguard.
8/6 23:11:41.265 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Dragonguard for 10206. (588 blocked)
8/6 23:11:42.312 Supremus's Hateful Strike was dodged by Daikirai.
8/6 23:11:43.562 Supremus's Hateful Strike was dodged by Daikirai.
8/6 23:11:44.765 Supremus's Hateful Strike was dodged by Dragonguard.
Here's our enhance shaman eating it
8/6 23:05:46.265 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Dragonguard for 8856. (723 blocked)
8/6 23:05:47.421 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Ruined for 18146.
I'm not entirely sure how the healers are supposed to patch the offtank damage in under 1.2 seconds.
Last edited by Whiteknight : 08/09/07 at 3:35 PM.
Reason: fixed the ability name (hateful, not hurtful)
We've had him do hurtful strike multiple times in a row with only a second or two in between casts. We've never had a string like that though. We actually have more healers assigned to healing the hurtful strike tank than the main tank because of this.
It's never been a problem for us, but I managed to find an old combatlog of Supremus. Generally, his cooldown is 5 seconds. Sometimes he does use it a lot more often though. This usually happens when Hateful Strike is being avoided (but not every time it is being avoided).
I don't really know how you could work around that, except by getting more hitpoints on your HS tanks. I still have more hitpoints than any melee DPS after taking a HS. Your offtanks on the other hand seem to be rather low on max HP, the paladin especially.
It seems to be HP based, so offtank 1 drops below any other melee (on hp) he is no longer offtank. Once he is topped back up he is then OT again.
I'm not certain on this, but we just have 2 druids in there, the rest of the melee dont usually have a problem, well until someone dies.
Our supremus tactic is terrible, we always lose loads of people which makes the fight last alot longer than it should, but the boss is so easy it really doesn't matter.
The question was about the frequency though, not how it worked. Sometimes it does look he does it more often though, but I can't tell for sure. I'm usually running around like an idiot trying to find people to heal in phase 1...
From what I can tell, usually we have the Hateful Strike hit every ~2 seconds and the only time it "looks" like it hits "less frequent" is when a tank parries twice or so. Obviously, that will mean he will keep attempting to hit the first tank -.-
We use two offtanks - and even if they were the first two players to engage, have aggro spots 2 and 3, have the top two hp, and are in melee range (which I think would cover any theory), our enhancement shaman and rouges tend to get instagibbed almost every week - being attacked before the tanks, especially later in the fight.
It basically seems broken to me - we just do what Stigmata described. I just think the fight is basically broken. Kind of a shame that the first half of this zone is basically wasted time on the developer's part.
Your offtanks on the other hand seem to be rather low on max HP, the paladin especially.
You may have been looking at my health when I had my healing gear on for arena - I was at 16k during today's fight before flask and without Imp. Protpallys are ~1.5k health below Warriors anyway, combined with lackluster itemization before Black Temple/Hyjal.
In any case, there were several times during today's fight that I would parry, dodge, and get missed by Hateful Strike several times in a row... then get creamed by two more. Highest I recall was 4 Hateful Strikes in a span of 4 seconds on only myself.
I'm not sure, but I doubt that's "working as intended."
We have not had that issue, the frequency seems a lot less than what you have experienced in our raids. We use a druid/warrior or 2 druid OT combo for supremus and do not have difficulty with the melee dying. We all have ~22k hp buffed, so that generally gives us a little leeway on getting the melee trashed.
Wierd.We basically just treat it more like Gruul's Hurtful Strike than Patchwerk's Hateful Strike (assumed it was purely agro based), and I can't remember our melee ever dying without going above our one OT on agro. It definitely comes more often than every 5 seconds though - he tends to do strings of them and then kind of stop hitting the OT for a while, in my experience.
Last week we used one hurtful strike tank (me). Most of the melee died to melee hits rather than hurtfuls, but the majority of hurtfuls didn't hit anyone but me (although I haven't tried filtering for dodges/parrys because there'd be too much).
It's certainly not on a 5 second timer anyway. Some things like:
00:02'31.955 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits dukes for 8983
00:02'33.193 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Boomkat for 17915
00:02'35.567 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits dukes for 8907
and
00:04'36.447 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits dukes for 8833
00:04'37.022 Supremus's Melee hits Odis for 4473 (438 blocked)
650 Supremus's Hateful Strike hits Cännings for 19740
Either have one OT and spam them loads, or two offtanks with one being spammed and one healed reactively (the lower health of the two).
Normally we don't have a problem with 2 druids soaking - we both have a lot of health and plenty of dodge, and I don't think I've ever seen a melee get gibbed from Hurtful when both of us have been there.
We had an attempt last week where all the melee were instagibbed by hatefuls basically how Quigon described. The next try it didn't happen for no discernible reason. There does seem to be at least some bugged element to the mechanic.
You may have been looking at my health when I had my healing gear on for arena - I was at 16k during today's fight before flask and without Imp. Protpallys are ~1.5k health below Warriors anyway, combined with lackluster itemization before Black Temple/Hyjal.
Thats is still very low, but like you said, your class and it's itemization is the reason.
We treat him just like Patchwerk. I'm OT1 at almost 25k HP when I bother to flask, OT2 is a druid around 21-22k or so. He is sometimes in the melee DPS group, so he doesn't always have Commanding Shout or an imp.
I don't think it is aggro based, I hardly even attack the guy. Though it did feel like I could 'drop off the list', much like on Patchwerk, when I stopped attacking him entirely. But that is purely anecdotal.
Just a guess, but it looks like he will recast hateful if it gets parried / dodged / missed. Now the problem is, looks like he's doing the same thing if it's blocked too, even though it's only partial.
Therefore you have no problems with the bear off tanks, but if a warrior is trying to be helpful and spam shield block he could take a pumelling.
BTW sorry to be pedantic but it's Hateful Strike, not hurtful. It uses the HP mechanic like Patch, not threat like Gruul.
You may have been looking at my health when I had my healing gear on for arena - I was at 16k during today's fight before flask and without Imp. Protpallys are ~1.5k health below Warriors anyway, combined with lackluster itemization before Black Temple/Hyjal.
In any case, there were several times during today's fight that I would parry, dodge, and get missed by Hateful Strike several times in a row... then get creamed by two more. Highest I recall was 4 Hateful Strikes in a span of 4 seconds on only myself.
I'm not sure, but I doubt that's "working as intended."
This is pretty much my experience. Also, he seems capable of these flurries on some attempts and not others, with no pattern that I've discerned.
It's certainly not threat based, because I'm not doing much in the way of threat when I eat them.
The only answer pretty much is that it's horribly bugged and can randomly do whatever the hell it wants sometimes. Most of the time it attacks the person with the most health...not all the time. Most of the time it only happens every 5+ seconds...not all the time. People haven't really complained because the fight is just so easy. Still, it's not great having glaring bugs like that in any raid encounter.
Just because it makes no sense to you doesn't mean its a glaring bug. The targeting seems to be pretty much the same as Patchwerk. Not sure what's the deal with the timer. It might be as bad as being the original HS with a minimum cooldown instead of a delay and he simply waits a bit a lot of the time. Patchwerk's HS delay was 1.2 seconds, that actually fits, looking at the OPs combatlog.
I'm surprised that the trend on this board keeps going towards blaming bugs and RNG for pretty much everything.
Are you going to back that claim up with some evidence?
I'm surprised that the trend on this board keeps going towards blaming bugs and RNG for pretty much everything.
Are you going to back that claim up with some evidence?
Yes? I already stated it above. How is that blaming RNG? It's just a bug.
I'm still surprised when people talk about patchwerk incorrectly - but whatever.
We use two offtanks - and even if they were the first two players to engage, have aggro spots 2 and 3, have the top two hp, and are in melee range (which I think would cover any theory), our enhancement shaman and rouges tend to get instagibbed almost every week - being attacked before the tanks, especially later in the fight.
I'd say he takes a swing at players with less HP, less aggro, and with tanks in melee range for us at least once a week. He swung at a rogue who just entered melee range tonight. It might be due to lag on heals on the tanks - but the tanks were definitely full a few times when he's killed others - it could be that they were healed instantly and then wasn't reported on raid frames, but I seriously doubt it. It might be due to tanks getting on some list, leaving aggro range somehow, and getting back in range - but that wouldn't explain the rogue dying the moment he walked into range with both tanks at full.
Yes? I already stated it above. How is that blaming RNG? It's just a bug.
That was a general statement, I didn't say you blamed the RNG here.
Your statement sounds a bit anecdotal. Never happened to us, just like no melee ever died when the tank gets feared for a split second on Archmonde, etc. Maybe we are just lucky all day long.
I will gladly stand corrected if there is some real proof, but I don't really care either. Supremus is very easy, with 2-3 high HP tanks, you will never wipe here.
I'm not sure the point of these discussions is to provide exacting proof for every bug and situation we've run into. I didn't screenshot it or fraps it when Al'ar exploded 15 times in a row - people can either believe it or not I guess.
I will see if we can't fraps our next Supremus.
As for the shot on archimonde - I believe just like Supremus we aren't the only ones who reported that behavior - and I believe the explanation for what was happening was likely determined there.
08/07/07, 3:11 AM
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