Primal News Transmute [07/08/2007]

◊ Eej · 08/07/07, 1:42 PM

Thanks to Blizzcon, there's a crapload of information out but I'm pretty sure everyone has already seen it. So, I'm just going to summarize and describe changes I feel require reiteration.

2.2 PTR Summary

Originally Posted by Daelo, as quoted by MMO Champion

I wanted to update everyone and highlight some upcoming changes in the 2.2 patch for some of our raid encounters. Many of these changes are not on test yet, and this isn't every single improvement that's being made.

Archimonde

* Archimonde's Fear had a recast time that could be very inconsistent, which would cause problems for tanks who were waiting to react to the fear being cast. Along with making the fear more consistent, the minimum time between fears has been increased and the casting time will be 1.5 seconds.
* Grip of the Legion will not be able to target players who were just Air Burst, and it now has a non-infinite range.
* Red Soul Charges silence for 4 seconds instead of 6 seconds.
* The bug where Priests with Spirit of Redemption creating two Soul Charges on death is fixed.

Mother Shahraz

* The players targeted by Saber Lash now gain the immunity to Sinister Beam and Fatal Attraction, regardless of whether or not Saber Lash actually landed.
* Shahraz will now pick a new beam to cast after every 3rd cast, instead of every 5th.
* The first two seconds of Fatal Attraction now deals reduced damage.
* Prismatic Shield has been completely reworked. The shield is no longer adaptive. She periodically picks a random school to be resistant to, and the "opposite" school gets a bonus. Casters rejoice.
* In a later patch, we're blocking off some of the nastier places to get placed by Fatal Attraction, and the "Couches of Death" we'll be fixed. In the meantime, you should be able to mitigate a problematic Fatal Attraction teleport by tanking Mother Shahraz away from these locations.
* Also in a later patch, we'll be able to disable the "decreased melee swing time" effect caused by Mother Shahraz parrying a melee attack. The parry mechanic is exacerbating the already rather intense burst damage that Mother Shahraz can inflict.

Reliquary of the Lost

* Essence of Desire's Spirit Shock and Rune Shield will no longer be able to be cast nearly simultaneously. We added in a very small, but very significant delay in between the two.

Prince Kael'thas

* Completing Phase 1 of the encounter will now take considerably less time.

Heroic Dungeon Changes
The list is too extensive to go into here, but we have been monitoring the Heroic Dungeon Feedback thread and we've made some further changes to quite a few trash creatures and bosses. A more complete list of changes will be available as 2.2 testing on the PTR progresses.

Tempest Keep and Serpentshrine Trash ability tuning
We're making some further adjustments to several of the more punishing abilities on trash creatures in these two zones.

I'll see you all at the Raid & Dungeon panel at Blizzcon!

Just something the PvErs out there might be interested in. For the PvPers, you can read through this, at the time of this posting, 42 page behemoth of stupidity on the PTR forums regarding the Resilience change. Behold as Warlocks complain that it nerfs them too much and everyone else says it doesn't nerf them enough. Honestly, 10% less DOT damage at 400 Resil isn't going to do anything, especially with the gear changing... change.

EJ Discussion Thread

Blizzcon Stuff (oh god, this is going to be long)

First off, things you might actually see soon!

The Melee Off-specs Get Some New Talents

Paladins:
-Crusader Strike changed back to 6 second cooldown.
-Vengeance now lasts 30 seconds. Since it stacks to 5, I'm assuming you can just keep Vengeance up by critting once every 30 seconds, AKA it lasts forever.
-Improved Seal of the Crusader replaced by Sanctified Crusader
-Sanctified Crusader replaced by 3 point talent called Sanctified Seals, which apparently gives 3% spell and melee crit along with "reduces the duration of Sanctified Seals" which makes no sense because Blizzard is terrible at making tooltips, even well after content is released (hello Steady Shot!).

Shamans:
-Mental Quickness now gives Spell Damage equal to 10%/Talent Point of your AP. That's a damn good talent no matter how you look at it.
-Two Handed Specialization replaced by another 1-pointer Shamanistic Focus (Come on, you have alpha lorelol nerd Metzen on the creative team and this is the best name you can come up with?). Whenever you crit, you enter a focused state and all Shock spells cost 60% less mana. No idea if it interacts in wonky ways with Convection/Mental Quickness, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did.
-Shamanistic Rage now makes the Shaman take 30% less damage when active. This would almost be as good as Soul Link and might make Enh Shamans viable for PvP if it wasn't for the fact that it's a magic effect.

Hero Classes begin with Death Knights

Watch as I compile all the latest Death Knight information into one post:

Originally Posted by MMO Champion

Hero Classes

* The hero class will be created on a new character slot once you completed the quest, you won't lose your original character.
* The Death Knight should be the only hero class of the expansion, the devs want to see how the Death Knight works out before talking about new Hero Classes.

Death Knight

* This is a tanking/DPS class, you will be able to tank with a 2H or duel wielding
* Any race can become a Death Knight
* You unlock the ability to create the Death Knight when finishing the tough quest chain, your character will not be overwritten, it will be retained (so you are not losing something to gain something)
* Death Knight's will spawn into the world at a high level, they are still deciding which level you will start out at, 55,60, and level 70 have been discussed as possible starting points
* You will not be Kill on Sight from your own faction, so you will still be able to browse the AH, there will be flavor differences with NPCs however, expressing their distrust of Death Knights
* You get to choose your own type of Runeblade. You can choose from a traditional sword Runeblade or an axe variant
* Death Knight abilities are dictated by 3 runes : Blood, Frost, and Unholy.
* Your abilities will depend on how many of each rune you have. From what I saw from the demonstration, their are 6 slots for runes, so a balanced build would be 2 blood, 2 frost and 2 unholy. Spells will work like you use a spell that requires 1 blood rune, that blood rune is now on cooldown. Some spells will require like 4 of a rune for that ability to be used.
* There will be talents to reduce the cooldown on runes (Talent trees are Blood, Frost and Unholy)
* You will be able to summon minions but it is not the focal point of the class, it is just an accent to it, kind of like how Frost mages deploy their water elementals, summoning minions will not be integral to how you play the Death Knight
* You will wear plate armor
* The armor is said to be bulky and threatening like Arthas's armor. It will not look exactly like his. There were several different armor variations shown during the presentation that were definitely showing Death Knight look but also not looking like exact copies of Arthas's gear.

Known Death Knight skills

* Unholy Embrace
Instant Cast. 5 min cooldown.
Target is embraced by a silhouette of darkness for 6 seconds, corrupting any healing spells and effects cast upon or currently affecting the target to cause damage for 50% of their healing potential instead of restoring health. Any damage shields cast upon or currently affecting the target will also be instantly consumed, dealing 50% of their absorption potential in damage. Once afflicted with Unholy Embrace, the target cannot be afflicted with Unholy Embrace again for 1 minute.
* Army of the Dead
Raises several temporary minions (ghouls)

Now that the general info is out of the way, here are some blue posts about Death Knights.

Originally Posted by Vaneras, via World of Raids

There are a lot of things still being worked out with the Death Knight class such as specific spell abilities. Unlike a traditional caster type however, a Death Knight's spell power comes from runes that are etched into their blade. Think Warcraft III when you think about the possibilities of abilities for the Death Knight. I say possibilities because things are still in process for the development of the class and there will be (of course) a lot of testing for balance done. Given that this is our first Hero class we're unveiling, you can be sure we're going for the coolest of the cool for this class.

Runes and Mana pool

Is the Death Knight going to have a mana pool? The pictures from BlizzCon show spells using mana.

The runes they inscribe on their weapons are their mana pool (of a sort). As they use their abilities, the runes will be exhausted. After a period of time the runes will refresh. So, they don't have a traditional type of mana pool. You'll most likely see some screenshots of it, but the Death Knight (at current) has three different types of runes that they can inscribe on their weapon: Blood, Frost, and Unholy. Runes can only be inscribed out of combat ( all of this is subject to change as development continues.)

The rune types don't dictate a new damage type, they're simply a resource that spells and abilities will use when you activate them. The spells and abilities won't necessarily be "blood, unholy, or frost" damage.

Imagine it being three different energy pools which you can change the size of before you get into combat.

About weapons
There's no final decision or announcement on how multiple weapons would be etched, or how weapon switching may affect the etched runes. What has been discussed to some degree is that the main-hand weapon would be etched and that's it, but it's too early to say what would be allowed in the final game.

Which level?
Also, we haven't decided on what level you will start as your Death Knight, but it seems that it should be easy enough for someone who has leveled a character to level 80 and done the quest to be able to adapt to a Death Knight fairly well. It's not quite the same as handing it over to someone who is still learning the game. There are lots of opportunities for someone to solo and group to learn how to play the class.

Which race?
It's true that the current plan has been heavily discussed to go ahead with all races, but no final decision has been made. After talking to Chris he wasn't totally sold on the idea. Both are technically correct in that the current plan of some of the developers is to go ahead with all races, there's been no final decision made and no real work has progressed to force a decision just yet. The FAQ is more accurate at this time, in my opinion.

Lore-wise there's really no reason why a specific race couldn't become a Death Knight.

All races can be challenged mentally and physically, their will dulled, and be cast down into madness ... and darkness. Their souls drawn into the runeblade they wield.

Compared to other classes
They are not planned to be more powerful, them being a hero class simply means they're introduced at a higher level, and in general will reference the more powerful hero types of Warcraft history.

It's out intention to integrate them into the current classes, balance them appropriately, and have them provide an additional - but equal - role in groups and raids as compared to other classes.

Will there be other hero classes?
Yeah, well that kind figures in to the new definition of what a hero class is. It allows us to add new classes that start at higher levels, keeping players relatively kept up as we continue to release expansions and raise the level cap, and ultimately it really fits to use the heroes from past Warcraft games as inspiration. Some other hero classes could definitely be things like Demon Hunter, Blademaster, etc.

Basically, it's the same info that Drysc posted (because that's the info they're allowed to give out). The most worrisome thing I have heard about Death Knights, from multiple reputable sources, is that they're either a) not going to be eligible for Arenas b) purposely designed to be terrible at Arenas. Looking at the class I used to play, I can see how this can be a problem. Why should a class be specifically designed to be terrible in half of the game (if you consider the game to be split into PvE and PvP)? The only argument I've heard for this was that it would cause massive overpopulation of Death Knights (which is going to happen for the first few months anyways). Of course, if it was Warlock Epic Mount quest difficulty level, a lot of players won't even have access to Death Knights. Hell, most players don't have access to epic flying mounts.

According to Warcraft Realms, the most powerful Arena class (Warlocks) are only the fourth most popular choice. The worst Arena class (Hunters) are actually third in population, I fail to see why making Death Knights inherently weak at small-scale PvP would be a good choice in limiting their numbers. Of course, there could be another reason altogether, like "We don't want to see Hero classes in Arenas." which you just can't argue against.

PvP Stuff

I like MMO-Champion's summaries, so I'll be cribbing some of their posts again.

Originally Posted by MMO-Champion

Arena Changes

* Arena weapons will probably have a rating requirement in the future, for example you'll need 1500 points to buy a weapon, but won't be able to buy it if your rating is below 1750 (this is an example, there isn't any value for the moment)
* They might add a "Skirmish mode" to let you chose which team you want to face in Arena.
* Arena Season 3 is scheduled, with a new arena and new gear.
* Season 1 gear will be available through honor system when the season 3 starts.

Battleground changes

* In AV, players won't spawn in the cave until there's nowhere else to spawn. Players will have the ability to report other players for being AFK, like the spam reports. You can remove this debuff by going in combat. If you don't, you won't gain any honor.
* Honor gain will be more important at the end of a BG to make people stay.
* Guild battlegrounds might be added (let guilds challenge each other, join battlegroup as a guild, etc). The ability to join AV as a group will probably be reactivated.
* More items will be added to battleground's marks rewards.
* They're also thinking about letting people chose the size of a battleground (15vs15, 20vs20, etc)

So the Arena Weapon change is the greatest thing ever. I'm tired of seeing terrible players in terrible teams running around with an S2 Greatsword and Nagrand quest reward blues. This is also great news for good Arena players who want gold, because suddenly a high ranked Arena team is now more valuable because in addition to high points for that week, it also unlocks access to weapons.

Something that MMO-Champion missed out on about the Season 3 gear is that the Season 3 Pally Retribution set (lol) actually has Resilience on it now. Who knows, maybe they'll add more buffs to Ret Pallies than the talent changes above and make them viable, I doubt it though, but then again, they did make Enhancement Shamans/Feral Druids/Shadow Priests very useful in raids so who knows?

As for the BG changes, I'm sad that the Alliance days of playing a Caveman are coming to an end. Luckily, there's a cave near the Horde base full of Gnolls that you can get into combat with. Also, the competitive WSG bracket seems like it can potentially be a great idea for people who are getting a little tired of Arena and want something different.

Why You Should Be Excited About Zul'Aman

You might remember me trashing Zul'Aman for being pointless over the past few weeks, aside from getting a Bear mount. Well fear not, they now have released more information that might actually make you want to go there. For example, this ridiculous enchant:

There are also two weapons that have been shown:

Jin'Rokh, The Great Apocalypse
Two-Handed Sword
380-570 Damage, 3.70 Speed
128.4 DPS
49 Stamina
45 Haste Rating
120 AP

Compare to, [Twinblade of the Phoenix] or [Merciless Gladiator's Greatsword].

Dagger of Bad Mojo
One-Hand Dagger
142-213 Damage, 1.80 Speed
98.6 DPS
21 Agility
40 AP
154 Armour Penetration

Compare to, [Fang of Vashj] or [Merciless Gladiator's Shanker]. Oh, it's not unique, by the way.

Apparently, Zul'Aman will also have a lot of Resilience gear in it that "Isn't as good as Arena gear" but will let you gear up alts to be somewhat competitive for Arena. However, looking at the loot I just linked above, I'm pretty sure this stuff will be better than Arena season gear. Dear lord, PvE2PvP m i rite?

BG6 and TFO are Champions of the World

Assuming you ignore the whole "Well, most of the top teams got DQ'd and the other teams didn't even have real 5v5 comps out there". Other than that, backseat PvPers can continue saying "lol power trip runs rogue in 5s?" to each other as if they could have done better.

Naxx Might Be Retuned As A 25-Man Instance For Northrend

Molten Core difficulty, 25-man raid? XI sums it up best.

[2:47:10 pm] <XI> 2.5 HORSEMEN

In Closing

Well, that's the most important stuff I have anything to say about, a full list of the changes can be found here at MMO-Champion. Finally, here's a list of the Blizzcon Panels and stuff you may have missed (I haven't seen all of them either).

By the way, if you didn't watch them on the live feed, look up Nal_Ra vs Iris and Nal_Ra vs Savior. Great SC games.

WoW Lore Panel - With the loudest "Lok'tar Ogar" I've ever heard in my life.
WoW Movie Panel - Haven't seen this.
WoW PvP Panel - Some BG9 people show up in this one. Oh god I want an Alterac Cave Trampoline.
WoW Expansion Panel - Haven't seen this one either.
WoW Raid and Dungeons Panel - If this is anything like the forum, stay away from it.
WoW Class Discussion Panel - Go go Muffin Factory! Also for Hunters, I think Sorren shows up in this one, or maybe it's another video. He's the Asian guy with the sleepy voice talking about Hunters.
WoW Items and Professions Panel - It's about as interesting as it sounds.

Congratulations for making it to the bottom of this post!

If you just scrolled down to the bottom for the Armoury link, this isn't directed towards you. Luckily, I'm pretty sure next week will be a lot shorter and be a lot less colourful, but who knows, maybe there'll be something hilarious to talk about by then.

Amusing Armoury Link of the Week

[This.]

People are very, very unoriginal. I fully expect another page of search results to show up by the time I post next week's PNT.

e: Oh jeez, I forgot to mention, they're putting in another 25-man raid instance that is after Black Temple. Currently rumour has it that it's going to be involving the Sunwell.

• songster · 08/07/07, 1:59 PM

I suspect the reason for leaving DKs out of Arenas is purely because there will be a PvE quest required to unlock it. If it's good at Arenas, ot even if it's passable, there will be a huge outcry from people asking why they should be forced to excel at one part of the game in order to participate in another part - similar to the whole raid gear / PvP gear shenanigans. Easier simply to label it as part of the "PvE content" and leave it at that.

However, if they do take that tack, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a PvP Hero class popping up in the future - you unlock it via extensive questing/achievement in battlegrounds, world PvP and arenas, and it's either bad at raiding or explicitly barred from it.

It makes logical sense, as much as anything does in this game.

• frmorrison · 08/07/07, 2:10 PM

Good recap of the past week's news.

DK may be banned from Arenas, but at least you can do the new Siege weapons BG and the classic BGs, and look cool in Dalaran.

The point about unlocking DKs is true, a majority do not have epic flying mounts, so it is likely that not everyone will have access to DKs.

◊ Malan · 08/07/07, 2:13 PM

Heck there's still people that can't make it through a normal mode Arcatraz.

◊ Eej · 08/07/07, 2:14 PM

Originally Posted by songster

I suspect the reason for leaving DKs out of Arenas is purely because there will be a PvE quest required to unlock it. If it's good at Arenas, ot even if it's passable, there will be a huge outcry from people asking why they should be forced to excel at one part of the game in order to participate in another part - similar to the whole raid gear / PvP gear shenanigans. Easier simply to label it as part of the "PvE content" and leave it at that.

However, if they do take that tack, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a PvP Hero class popping up in the future - you unlock it via extensive questing/achievement in battlegrounds, world PvP and arenas, and it's either bad at raiding or explicitly barred from it.

It makes logical sense, as much as anything does in this game.

No, just no. This PvE content is like the Warlock Epic Mount quest and no one ever complained about that. All it required was to get like 400g, which I suppose was a lot back at 60, and a group of people who weren't retarded and you'd unlock it. Unlocking a DK does not require raiding, so the argument that "it's gained from PvE" does not apply here.

Then again, look at the Zul'Aman loots, the Resil rings from SSC/TK, the Shadow Resist gear and weapons from BT and tell me that there isn't already precedent for very good things for PvP coming from PvE content.

e: Added the Sunwell comment to the bottom of the post. Also retuned Naxx.

Teza · 08/08/07, 10:49 AM

I have found better urls (quality, screen size) to watch the different panels in this thread: Worldofraids forums :: BlizzCon 2007 Video Wrapup

◊ Malan · 08/08/07, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Eej

No, just no. This PvE content is like the Warlock Epic Mount quest and no one ever complained about that.

Actually a lot of people complain about it. For a lot of players the Warlock epic quest is really frigging hard because it relies on 4 other people to get it done for them. Similar to why a *lot* of shaman never did the epic helm quest from Scholo, that shit was hard to pug, and that's the only option for the vast majority of WoW players.

Think about how many pugs right now cannot complete a full run of Arcatraz on normal mode. Now imagine if the DK quest required an Arcatraz-equivelant instance run with maybe some summoned bosses to go along with it. That's a crap ton of players that would never unlock that class.

Zaphid · 08/08/07, 11:27 AM

Originally Posted by Malan

Actually a lot of people complain about it. For a lot of players the Warlock epic quest is really frigging hard because it relies on 4 other people to get it done for them. Similar to why a *lot* of shaman never did the epic helm quest from Scholo, that shit was hard to pug, and that's the only option for the vast majority of WoW players.

Think about how many pugs right now cannot complete a full run of Arcatraz on normal mode. Now imagine if the DK quest required an Arcatraz-equivelant instance run with maybe some summoned bosses to go along with it. That's a crap ton of players that would never unlock that class.

I think you underestimate the lure of having a DK. I know that about a month after BC release, Shattered Halls and Arcatraz were almost unpugable, but now ? As the general level of equipment gets better, people learn to react faster and generally know what to do when boss X is engaged. Because DK quest will be something that almost anyone will try to complete, people will adapt.

• Haphnet · 08/08/07, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Zaphid

Because DK quest will be something that almost anyone will try to complete, people will adapt.

I think that this is the key difference that separates the possible Death Knight quest from the Warlock epic mount and Shaman Epic helm. You could not complete the Epic lock mount quest with only 5 warlocks. However, since the DK quest, as you said, is something everyone and their grandmother is most likely going to want to at least try you're going to get a ton more interest in it. This means that it should ideally be a lot easier to field balanced groups all searching for the same goal. Even as time progresses and less people "need" to do the DK quests more and more people will have a fundamental understanding of what it entails thereby making it easier to complete.

Kirion · 08/08/07, 8:12 PM

Originally Posted by Haphnet

I think that this is the key difference that separates the possible Death Knight quest from the Warlock epic mount and Shaman Epic helm. You could not complete the Epic lock mount quest with only 5 warlocks. However, since the DK quest, as you said, is something everyone and their grandmother is most likely going to want to at least try you're going to get a ton more interest in it. This means that it should ideally be a lot easier to field balanced groups all searching for the same goal. Even as time progresses and less people "need" to do the DK quests more and more people will have a fundamental understanding of what it entails thereby making it easier to complete.

Make it like pre-heroic nerf Tempest Keep attunment and we wont see inflation of Death Knights.

• Haphnet · 08/09/07, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Kirion

Make it like pre-heroic nerf Tempest Keep attunment and we wont see inflation of Death Knights.

I'm saying it would be a GOOD thing if getting a Death Knight is not too difficult. Why do some people feel the need to exclude sections of the player base from enjoying something like this?

I would much rather see a lengthy lore filled series of quests that make the process not only enjoyable but in the end provide something that is new and fun.

• Fogbug · 08/09/07, 1:51 AM

Death knights being excluded from arena to prevent too many people from rolling DK's would be really dumb and I have trouble believing Blizzard would do that

but I probably won't play one if that ends up being the case so mission accomplished I guess?? :I

◊ Malan · 08/09/07, 8:47 AM

I don't think the idea of arena exclusion is to prevent people from rolling a DK, the idea is so that they can have an easier time of fitting the DK into PvE.

Kirion · 08/09/07, 8:56 AM

I just hope that Blizzard learned from SWG failure with jedi class and have their own vision on accessibility of heroes classes that will not change suddenly mid-game. I want it to be real accomplishment (thats why i mentioned The Eye attunment) but don't want to exclude most of playerbase from it either.

dukes · 08/09/07, 9:04 AM

I don't think the DK questline is going to be a major acomplishment, more of a lore-backed story questline that makes you travel a lot. The idea is for it to be a 10th class, not for it to be the first "uber"-class. They said in one of the presentations that the idea of the "hero" class is merely meant as a tie-in to WC3, along with allowing them to do things that otherwise may not be construed as "fair" (i.e. starting them at level 60 or 70, having a completely different power system).

The fact it's not arena enabled is, I would assume, just to make sure that it doesn't significantly imbalance the arena system when it's being used for e-gaming tournaments. It's going to be a tough call to get the arena system even back to where it is (which isn't perfect, but works well enough) with new talents and skills, without adding a 10th class to the mix that may not be very heavily played in the first place because of first having to do a significant amount of work (whether that be purely time based, or skill/execution/gear based) in getting to it on top of then having to throw away all that time you spent on your "main" character to level/gear it.

Avellyr · 08/09/07, 7:39 PM

There really wasn't anything in the Tempest Keep attunement line that arbitrarily excluded casual raiders. Anyone who seriously wanted to attempt TK should at least have the resources to run Magtheridon. The issue was difficulty, which is exactly how it should be. I think they made the right choice by removing an attunement quest that essentially blocked off half of TBC's raid content, but there was nothing inherently wrong with the questline itself, it was fun and difficult. Sure it couldn't be pugged, but even people who only play 5-10 hours a week can find a group of coordinated players that can run heroics. I sincerely hope that they make the death knight quest something along those lines.

According to Warcraft Realms, the most powerful Arena class (Warlocks) are only the fourth most popular choice. The worst Arena class (Hunters) are actually third in population, I fail to see why making Death Knights inherently weak at small-scale PvP would be a good choice in limiting their numbers. Of course, there could be another reason altogether, like "We don't want to see Hero classes in Arenas." which you just can't argue against.

I think that this is in large part due to the fact that the populations of different classes were more or less set before the release of arenas. People do roll new characters expressly to play them in arenas, but it's not enough to skew the overall population of the class by much (either in arenas or in general, I'm not sure which statistic you used).

Axanor · 08/09/07, 10:44 PM

There really wasn't anything in the Tempest Keep attunement line that arbitrarily excluded casual raiders. Anyone who seriously wanted to attempt TK should at least have the resources to run Magtheridon. The issue was difficulty, which is exactly how it should be. I think they made the right choice by removing an attunement quest that essentially blocked off half of TBC's raid content, but there was nothing inherently wrong with the questline itself, it was fun and difficult. Sure it couldn't be pugged, but even people who only play 5-10 hours a week can find a group of coordinated players that can run heroics. I sincerely hope that they make the death knight quest something along those lines.

Not to derail, but the issue wasn't difficulty, it was the fact that forcing people moving from SSC to TK to run 5 man heroics was just ridiculous. When raiding starts for people, their primetime hours are normally slotted off for raiding, and for players with limited playtime (due to work, school, etc), it made getting the time and appropriate groups for those instances near-impossible. Most people I know are playing their alts when they're not raiding.

moowalk · 08/11/07, 12:01 PM

Originally Posted by Zaphid