Kaz'Rogal - Page 3

Khlysti · 08/29/07, 1:02 PM

Azgalor trash has the lowest dps requirements of any (or atleast seems to to me). The first wave is by far the 'hardest' and you may find some of it alive when you hit wave 2 if your dps is low, but even with 3 or so mobs up then you can clean wave 2 before 3 comes, and its clean sailing from there. With demons undead and humanoids on alot of waves its also very easy to cc a huge amount to make control far easier.

Aware · 08/29/07, 1:02 PM

Originally Posted by Kram

Did you have any problems getting through the trash with less dps? We're having a lot of problems with trash too as it is. Is single target a better idea for Azgalor trash in general? We generally destroy Rage-Kaz trash with predominantly AOE (melee on necros/banshees), but Azgalor trash is just causing all sorts of problems.

We have 2-3 tanks fling themselves into whatever comes in the front door with AoE sticking around for a while to give the melee a good start. Ranged go back with a couple healers to take out the flyers. With 8 healers, we were a bit behind in the middle, but we caught up quickly by hitting 2-3 heroisms. We killed the boss with the same group.

Tauftamir · 08/29/07, 1:10 PM

Originally Posted by Kram

Did you have any problems getting through the trash with less dps? We're having a lot of problems with trash too as it is. Is single target a better idea for Azgalor trash in general? We generally destroy Rage-Kaz trash with predominantly AOE (melee on necros/banshees), but Azgalor trash is just causing all sorts of problems.

Which trash waves specifically?

We are usually too slow on wave two with 2-3 mobs up at <15% but any wave with giant infernals is free catch-up time. 1-2 can be tanked next to the Tauren warriors who will kill them for you without dying, and at least 1 over at Thrall the same way. We have ranged finish infernals and I tank everything in wave 3, 4, and 7 since they do trival damage to the tank and let the melee DPS go crazy on them since they can't really hurt them.
Usually we have plenty of time left after any wave with infernals by doing it like this.
Wave 6 was a pain until we had a DPS warrior come up with running in with Shieldwall and Intimidating Shout to prevent any Shadow Bolt/Wail chaining on one tank and sheeping the rest so the damage is more spread out.
We use the same method as you for splitting ranged and melee and had no problems at all.

Lastly, Azgalor can be distracted so simply do that so everyone can drink and then Misdirect to the tank, if you are slow on waves.

TheDooft · 08/29/07, 1:26 PM

Originally Posted by Kram

Yeah, I mean, we definitely do all the obvious stuff. Is it just a case of us needing to get better healing/spreading out or are there some good "tricks" people use to minimize the damage from rain of fire coupled with silence on everyone. Does anyone run more than 7 healers? Dedicated healers? Fire resist (besides totem/aura)?

We always bring 7 healeur for Azgalor, I put 4 healeur on MT, 2 on raid (melee & range) and myself (shaman) on the 2 doomguard off-tank.
The only issue we got with this is when he's chain doom on healer. We got 8 healer one time because a mage was absent, it make the fight even more easy.

About Kaz'rogal, i tried it with full SR stuff yesterday (366), i never get burned. The only dmg i took was from a slacking hunter exploding near me.

Lansky · 08/29/07, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kram

Did you have any problems getting through the trash with less dps? We're having a lot of problems with trash too as it is. Is single target a better idea for Azgalor trash in general? We generally destroy Rage-Kaz trash with predominantly AOE (melee on necros/banshees), but Azgalor trash is just causing all sorts of problems.

Well due to the nature of RoF depending on how you allign your melee it can be quite unforgiving. When learning the fight we brought 4 tanks, 8 healers, and mainly ranged dps. Had our standard group of 3 rogues, 1 enhance shaman, and either a dps war or feral druid (i don't remember which but it was tanking during trash). This meant that while our AE was still more than adequate for the trash we were slightly low on focus fire power during the all Banshee/Necro wave. To make up for this we would just blow one bloodlust on our melee to help burn that group down. With 8 healers Azgalor only took 3 or 4 pulls before our first kill.

Amera · 08/29/07, 1:28 PM

How do you manage to heal the rain of fire damage with only 2 healers, especially with silences?

TheDooft · 08/29/07, 1:49 PM

Originally Posted by Amera

How do you manage to heal the rain of fire damage with only 2 healers, especially with silences?

Raid is totally spread out, so there isn't lot of people with fire at same time, 1priest and 1pal are enough. If rain is on melee the resto drood can help with HoT and MT's resto sham can use instant chain heal. MT's healer should be alone to minimize risk of being under rain but beware of doom. We put 3 differents healthstone well near a bunker for people using them every 2min. If someone have very big trouble, he can run to me, out of range, and I heal him.

I don't really know how many SR raid healeur wear cos i don't wear any SR on this fight (i'm out of range from silence), but they have at least neck & back SR items.

Russta · 08/29/07, 2:04 PM

We found on a lot of our kills that our melee were just getting obliterated by rain of fire far too easily. One of the things I did to combat this was to put an icon on one of our Rogues and whenever rain is on them they all run to that shape. Making this simple change to prevent chain heal being split among the "wrong" people along with their Shaman dropping FR totem made a big difference.

One of our other problems that emerged recently was every healer being silenced and me dying. Let me tell you, it really sucks to do 25 minutes of trash only to wipe to Azgalor after 47 seconds because they're all playing russian roulette with the main tank's life. Since killing Reliquary of Souls last week and crafting up our SR gear, just one of our Paladins wore the full set and we one shot him with ease.

As the person tanking this horrifically uncomfortable fight, I can't stress enough how much both those changes helped in not having to repeat it all night.

Levidian · 08/29/07, 2:09 PM

We stop him once for first silece where the path T's which agros the cows and thrall. Then we back him straight up the hill about 40 yards so that the next silence hits the trolls. This puts all the cows and thrall toward his back out of the cleave arc. some of the trolls get cleaved but the spear throws stop out of range of it.

We just OT all the demons. This puts max dps on the boss.

Edit: Removed quote, I quoted the wrong post LOL.

Kram · 08/29/07, 2:10 PM

It's generally around wave 4 or 5 that things start to slow down. I'm not really sure why, I just pew pew ankles. We have had a lot of trouble with tanks getting destroyed on heavy necro/banshee waves. We've used a couple different things to varying degrees of success such as paly tank bubbling and fearbombs to scatter them. We'll get better at the trash, I'm just wondering if we'd be able to get through it at this point down another DPS or two or if we should try some fancy switching during wave 8 or something to get a couple more healers in. Though we are still losing random people during the waves anyways, so maybe another healer or two would keep everyone up and our DPS would increase anyways.

TheDooft · 08/29/07, 3:06 PM

If MT have some problem dying during silence, check if he had all HoT and Earth Shield. If threat is good, MT can untarget Azgalor during silence, avoiding any parry, and check if no npc face Azgalor. Melee should be aware of not facing the boss and hiting him with auto attack while moving away from rain.

A problem we got on Azgalor yesterday : a doomed one sucked, and release his doomguard near the boss... the doomguard war stomp melee under a rain of fire... deadly

. It was longer than usual but he died.

Tauftamir · 08/29/07, 4:20 PM

Originally Posted by Kram

We have had a lot of trouble with tanks getting destroyed on heavy necro/banshee waves. We've used a couple different things to varying degrees of success such as paly tank bubbling and fearbombs to scatter them.

I hope this doesn't sound patronising but you do know that you can run back during the trash waves if you die, since it's just trash?

Wave one, stand with everyone behind the NPC's at the gate and let the Necros target them first before the tanks move in to grab the abominations.
Wave six, have a shield wall tank run in to fear bomb healed by a bubbling Paladin.
Both of these will buy you enough time to make sure no one gets chain casted.
It's just a case of practice.

We also assigned 1 healer to each tank who's job it is to keep them up on the trash (Priest or Paladin) and have the rest raid healing.

Kalince · 08/29/07, 4:45 PM

We actually prefer they chain cast the tank as a ton of stuff gets spell reflected then. A trick we use for wave of Azgalor is to have a felhound banished at the front from wave 5 so all the npcs (mostly tauren) stay at the front beating on it. Then wave 6 comes and they rush the wave and just stun the crap out of all the casters pretty much nullifying the damage they can do.

Cesar2000 · 08/29/07, 5:30 PM

We've just had a pally in the front, blowing his bubble as the bolts are in the air, usually works very well.

The totem idea sounds like the best option tho, we'll probably try that next week.

Skulli · 08/29/07, 6:46 PM

Just use spell reflect, since the npcs start to cast at the same time it will reflect all incoming spells. A priest can also use pws on target that got initial aggro and cause the mobs to move to that priest and can fade if needed.

elba · 09/03/07, 8:48 PM

Is the Mark of Kaz'rogal actually a little buggy? We were trying today all evening long and on our final try had him down to about 20% or so and was looking quite good as most of the raid still lived. I (feral druid) shifted out of cat to innervate a priest, got the mark, shifted back. When I wanted to battle-resurrect a warlock who had been nuked by a mage exploding I noticed some mana had been drained. I got the mark again, shifted into cat once more and though I still didn't think of anything suspicious it ended up with me nuking all other melees - as cat. This is rather strange as when I get the mark as cat it would not drain any mana at all.

Other than that, I think that the trash waves before Kaz'rogal are veeeery difficult to master. We somehow end up with all tauren dead, and we needed about 2 minutes more for the last wave with our rogues distracting kaz'rogal to win some time. In most cases it works out fine until wave 3-4 and then we sometimes don't even get ooc before the next waves. As far as I noticed some tauren died because of mobs breaking through the first npc defense lines and going straight for them when sometimes we didn't have a tank ready to get them. In other cases they were just standing next to too many abominations and were just killed by their aura in notime. What's the key to success? The boss himself doesn't seem that hard yet the trash is just pain

Ribeye · 09/03/07, 9:17 PM

As a druid, your best bet healing on Kazrogal is spending most of your time in cat dpsing. Just after marks and before the next, pop out and drop rejuves on all the locks and tanks, then shift back and dps. Somewhere around 50pct toss one of the priests your innervate and don't officially come out of form to heal unless most of the other healers are dead. Thats when you can clean up spam healing the MT to a victory.

Junakit · 09/03/07, 9:17 PM

I had exactly that happen elba. Shifted with the mark and exploded while in catform. Shifting once during the fight is okay but multiple times seems to be pushing it -- druid mana mods are great here, of course.

As for your trash -- mobs that go straight for the tauren (assuming they're upfront due to slow waves?) shouldn't kill them, they're fairly hardy, though tanks should be watching them and prepared to taunt off at low health. Shackling abominations except the one being killed helps with the aura. But waves 3-4 aren't particularly tricky, try to pinpoint why your dps is falling behind -- is it because people die? mobs are too spread out to AOE? gargoyles don't land? or are you simply tank/healer stacked and low on DPS?

On the subject of trash, we used the pally bubble for wave 6 of Azgalor trash last week, but this week we banished a fel stalker and it worked so beautifully it nearly made me weep.

elba · 09/03/07, 10:07 PM

Well I dunno, today we had 7 healers and 4 tanks of which 3 were prot warriors. Since regarding most encounters by now this hasn't been a real problems for us (though my guild is not too far advanced in the game, recently downed akama and gorefiend so still a whole lot of work ahead of us

) I didn't really see that big problem regarding the raid setup. Although 3 prot warriors is almost a little overkill we sometimes had difficulties with tanking the whole lot of mobs and we didn't have another feral or else available. To be a little more specific, we had 2 rogues, 1 fury warr, 4 locks, 3 mages, 1 shadow, 2 bm hunters, 1 elemental shammy as dps. Had been thinking of little more melee dps for kaz'rogal himself maybe as they don't get oom but wasn't really sure if that would be very clever concerning the stomp. Our tauren warriors were able to outrange this, but neither i nor the rogues :<

What I don't really know yet how to handle is getting Thrall and the tauren to interact on the waves. Getting some mobs and running to Thrall and back to the raid is rather easy even as tank but kiting some mobs to the tauren often ends up with them stunning the mobs for ages so you'll sometimes not make it back before the next wave emerges. Pulling Gargoyles from where they do spawn often makes the tauren (unless they're not already in combat somewhere else) go for the gargoyles thus stun them in stupid positions far away from the raid and without a real possibility for the hunters to regain aggro and kite them the rest of the way. Suggestions?

P.S: Thanks for feedback already, guess I'll just have to stay in cat and wait for the mark to target someone else so it's not me getting drained to death. still it's ridiculous :>

woo-haa · 09/04/07, 3:51 AM

For the boss himself, I suggest wearing SR gear. You eventually have to craft them to Mother Shahraz, so you might as well start and use it now. Full SR gear on your mana users makes this fight quite trivial.

Since you are mentioning wave 3-4 I'm assuming it's the gargoyles that give you trouble. We have all ranged single target nuking them and a couple of kiters to involve Thrall and Warriors. Melee and a couple of tanks stay and kill on the ground and help kill gargoyles afterwards. We never make a big deal of pulling every gargoyle to the ground.

Giske · 09/04/07, 5:12 AM

We only tried Kaz'rogal trash once with 23 people to see what its like, we got overwhelmed at the start, but once we had some warlocks just dot up the gargoyles and drag them down to the other mobs we simply aoed everything down and managed to catch up and get out of combat by wave 5. Unfortunately communication errors made the tanks run in and instadie on that one, the trash didnt seem particularly hard once you get the gargoyles to land. Didnt get to see a Frost Wyrm though.

Quigon · 09/04/07, 6:28 AM

Originally Posted by Skulli

Just use spell reflect, since the npcs start to cast at the same time it will reflect all incoming spells. A priest can also use pws on target that got initial aggro and cause the mobs to move to that priest and can fade if needed.

I know why you worded it this way, but it has been my experience that spell reflect does not match the tooltip, and most of the time it reflects for its full duration - up to 10 reflects in 1 press sometimes, over 5 full seconds. Other times it appears to disappear as the tooltip indicates it should, but this seems less common. In fact the same mob has cast on me twice and both have been reflected... so I don't think it is a channeled or in-cast issue.

woo-haa · 09/04/07, 7:22 AM

Originally Posted by Quigon

I know why you worded it this way, but it has been my experience that spell reflect does not match the tooltip, and most of the time it reflects for its full duration - up to 10 reflects in 1 press sometimes, over 5 full seconds. Other times it appears to disappear as the tooltip indicates it should, but this seems less common. In fact the same mob has cast on me twice and both have been reflected... so I don't think it is a channeled or in-cast issue.

Did the first shadowbolt get reflected before the second got cast (eg. leave his hand)? If the first bolt was still in mid-air then it's possible to reflect both.

elba · 09/04/07, 7:33 AM

Originally Posted by Giske

We only tried Kaz'rogal trash once with 23 people to see what its like, we got overwhelmed at the start, but once we had some warlocks just dot up the gargoyles and drag them down to the other mobs we simply aoed everything down and managed to catch up and get out of combat by wave 5. Unfortunately communication errors made the tanks run in and instadie on that one, the trash didnt seem particularly hard once you get the gargoyles to land. Didnt get to see a Frost Wyrm though.

Haha same thing happened to us yesterday ^^

I would suggest our healers to wear shadow resist gear too but we've only been to BT twice and managed to kill 4 bosses there, so we don't really have massive amounts of hearts of darkness to craft that much sr gear yet. But I didn't think shadow resist gear was the big problem coz most of the time we were fighting trash waves, not the boss

, at least until the very end were we had quite a "solid" strategy although it took so long for wave 8 the rogues had to distract kaz in order for us to reg and rebuff. Will try it this evening once more with and think of the some of the advices here, hope we'll manage to bring that bastard down :>

Giske · 09/04/07, 7:39 AM

Well, green shadow res items could probably do the trick until you get enough hearts, we're in the same situation and only got 8 hearts this reset. We're going out of our way to kill every single trash pack from Supremus and onwards though to get as many hearts as possible in preparation for Shahraz, so hopefully we'll get a lot more next reset as we kinda plowed through Supremus and Akama to get them down for the first time.

Kaz'rogal trash does seem a bit crazy for the first few waves, but its not nearly as bad as many people have hyped it up to be. Unless the waves got adjusted or something since I read about it. I dont really see much of a problem on it once you get a good setup for handling the gargolyes.