Rockem

I haven't looked over the "whole" thread but this isn't a "Huntard" issue. Pre BC I've ran with
extremely respectable Hunters and extremely unskilled Huntards. BUT, this goes with EVERY
single class/spec in the game. Hunters (BM mainly) have taken a lot of heat over the years
for being easy mode in solo PvE. But until you've rolled every class/"spec" from 10-70 it's
really not fair to pass judgement on one class.

The reason I posted today (first time poster) was a conversation I had with a IRL friend. They
take 2 Shadow Priest with them on 25 man nights and both are usually in the middle/lower of dps.
Recently they just recruited another Shadow Priest with pretty much same talents/gear. Guess
what, that guy blew up the damage meters like no tomorrow. That is a pure example of someone
how takes the time to learn/try/test the best rotation and maximizing their DPS vs some scrub
who thinks it's cool to be in Shadow Form.

With all respect due, Hunters (MM) are the rare exception with little room for error when trying to
max out their damage. They're not quite as easy vs other classes/specs who can just sit there and
spam one button on boss fights. But their not the only class that need special attention in this area.
Personally if you're going to make a successful guild, instead of slamming someone for poor rotation,
wouldn't it be better to explain/teach them a better way of dealing damage?

Final Though: If those people don't want to change then maybe it's time to /gkick.

 

Elvandir

How to tank 101:

1) Keep Sheild Block up
2) Use everything else when the cooldown allows
3) Get heals
4) Loot

I'm not trying to be an asshat troll, but I can't see how staring at a latency bar trying not to clip shots in the 0.5333333' seconds you have to get your next shot off is in any way comparable to the "watch cooldowns, spam ability" that is tanking.

 

Drunkmunky

Well I have both classes and I'm telling you it is way harder, you only need to use the abilities when they have cooled down for tanking. So long as you know the order of importance for all your moves it becomes mindless really quick, I mostly zone out once I have 5 sunders up for tank and spank encounters. Hunters need to pay attention to the timing the whole time for perfect dps, I'm definitely not saying that tanking is easy but it's nowhere near as hard as being a good hunter.

 

Grogzor

Just saying, if you want to argue over which class is "harder", you can go to the WoW forums. Nothing productive comes from that kind of posting and its immature.

But when it comes time for me to remove your wings, and you, you must try to fly...

Click Here to see what makes me tic(k).

What Are You Going to Roll for Warhammer Online?

 

Elvandir

My intent wasn't to get into the whole "X class takes more skill than Y class" argument, it is, as you said pointless.

That said, the comparison still holds, as a tank, by using your abilities you cannot drop below a base value of x threat (basically autoattack +/- assiciated modifiers), using sunder, shield block, revenge etc only serves to improve your treat generation. This can be expanded to rogues also, the baseline is auto attack, using specials only improves upon this. Granted SS spam may not be the best idea, but it's still higher than autoattack.

Classes that DPS via cast times (Mages, Warlocks *sorta*, Elemental Shamans and Balance Druids) can happily spam a nuke until the end of time and not suffer a net loss of damage, granted, it may not be optimal, but there is still no net loss. It is only when you attempt to combine these two systems that you get the horrible system that is Hunter DPS.

As far as my limited knowledge of casting/melee-ing goes, casting anything other than an instant resets the swing timer. So casting a spell essentially functions as if you had swung your melee weapon, this is a system where melee is dependant upon the cast timers. Instants do not effect the swing timer, so your Fire Blast, SS, Revenge, Stormstrike, Shred, Swipe etc will not in any way affect the timing of your melee weapon damage.

Where this all falls down is the 0.5s "cast" that Autoshot has, which is intended, assumedly to prevent the use of a constant stream of ranged damage whilst moving which is understandable, (though with practice this can be achieved by stopping every [attack speed - 0.5 seconds] to fire an auto and resume running. This 0.5s cast is affected by anything the player does, any action that causes a GCD supersedes and pushed back this invisible cast timer, which is completely contradictory to the experience with any other "melee" ability (Slam excluded *shakes fist at special cases*).

In any case, the ability of your damaging specials to actually lower DPS below a baseline of doing nothing is counter-intuitive at best, making Steady an instant would alleviate a lot of the drama with clipping, but ultimately I believe the only solution is to remove the 0.5s cast on auto and be done with the whole argument, that way Blizzard gets to keep their "weaving" which whilst it was originally unintended, they seem to have fallen in love with, and allows the general hunter population a shit-ton more leeway as far as learning curve and latency goes.