Someone told us to not cast totems in phase 2, we did so but still had one flame charge a random person.
I read somewhere that if you casted the totems before the elementals spawned they wouldn't charge them.
Tried it some week ago and they still charge even if you casted them before they spawned.
I'm pretty sure the way it works is that the blades each have a buff which protects everyone around them (in what people are calling the safe circles) making those people untargetable by the charge. When someone is combat ressed, they don't have the buff and are immediately charged. It's also obvious that totems currently don't get the buff (even if they are down before the blades come down). This also means you don't need to worry about player distance from the elementals, but rather player distance from their nearest blade.
I think all they really need to do is make the buff hit totems, and make it pulse faster than the elementals "Can I charge anyone?" pulse, which should allow for combat ressing (with a little luck)
I'm pretty sure the way it works is that the blades each have a buff which protects everyone around them (in what people are calling the safe circles) with a buff that makes untargetable by the charge. When someone is combat ressed, they don't have the buff and are immediately charged. It's also obvious that totems currently don't get the buff (even if they are down before the blades come down). This also means you don't need to worry about player distance from the elementals, but rather player distance from their nearest blade.
I do not know if this is the exact mechanic but this behavior does seem to accurately model what is observed.
It is somewhat upsetting that totems are still such a mess after all of this time.
We have ranged on the SR tank side and melee on the other. Learn the timing of fireballs and you should know when to spread from each other and it'll be cake.
Do you guys do anything special to deal with p3? Such as ranged up closer or anything to help DPS the demons down quick while managing to stay spread?
We try to keep people way at the back but also spread in a reasonable manner, with dpsers on the front row so they can immediately react to the demon spawn. The idea is to keep the demons coming in a parallel line (as much as possible at least) and actually going through the raid, having to travel a great distance to reach their targets, which allows enough time to dps them down.
We have ranged on the SR tank side and melee on the other. Learn the timing of fireballs and you should know when to spread from each other and it'll be cake.
What he said, but we have all DPS in front of healers except for the lock healers. We do tend to stack our two hunters near the warlock tanks side to kill demons as they come up. Our setup is ranged DPS is closer than melee DPS which is closer than healers. Melee can move up to the demons in between flame bursts.
Phase 3 and 4 are fairly easy. In our case, phase 3 and 4 are the still hard depending on how many people freak out and panic when the boss gets closer to death. This week it was 2 hours of phase 2 wipes since we decided we'd like to bunch up to kill ourselves and we let the add tanks die for an hour, followed by another wipe in P3 because everyone lost their brains around 30% and let 2 people die to demons and let parasites go rampant.
I honestly think that the trap is a mechanic designed to wipe raids because DPSers are so excited about the 2x damage that they forget to manage the parasites. It's wiped us twice so far on otherwise fine kills.
For demon phase, everyone spreads out as far from Illidan as possible (>50 yards at the least), with the closest people being the lock tank and healers. Frost traps are laid in the path of the lock tank, rogues with crippling take care of the rest.
I honestly think that the trap is a mechanic designed to wipe raids because DPSers are so excited about the 2x damage that they forget to manage the parasites. It's wiped us twice so far on otherwise fine kills.
Another Problems with the traps is the positioning. In one of our first P4 Trys I pulled Illidan into a trap on the middle of the plateau. After he came out of the trap he became Demon and our postioning was fucked up. We wiped very quickly, because we couldnt handle the shadow demons and the Flame Burst.
Our healers managed to heal the "enrage" very well, so we´ve never tried to use a trap again.
Another Problems with the traps is the positioning. In one of our first P4 Trys I pulled Illidan into a trap on the middle of the plateau. After he came out of the trap he became Demon and our postioning was fucked up. We wiped very quickly, because we couldnt handle the shadow demons and the Flame Burst.
Our healers managed to heal the "enrage" very well, so we´ve never tried to use a trap again.
We use the traps if they are in a convenient position (i.e. it won't all get messed up when he goes into demon form), but otherwise we just ignore them.
We use the traps if they are in a convenient position (i.e. it won't all get messed up when he goes into demon form), but otherwise we just ignore them.
Yes so was our plan after the wipe, but in the killtry we decided not to use any traps, because we thought it would cause to much trouble (for Example healrange problems while pulling him) and could wipe us.
But the biggest Problem is Maievs stupid KI. In 4 Kills i´ve seen only one Trap near Illidan, all other traps were placed at a minimum of 20 Yards away.
The chance you take using the traps is quite worth the reward. Our kill last night is probably the worst Illidan kill ever (drawing soul from 15% to 25% and killing the lock tank in that next demon form and then shearing and killing MT and then shearing the OT) and using the traps at the end saved us. Getting that extra damage and lowering the time of the fight and being able to skip a demon form phase can be the difference between a kill and a wipe.
The only issue with traps are the fact he can use an ability after the trap. That makes me very nervous. The chance of him nailing the raid with draw soul and healing up to who knows what is the one I'm most worried about. First kill he destroyed a DPS warrior, this weeks kill I yelled at the melee to back out just to be sure. I suppose if you did get aggro and he did cast draw the melee could react and it wont be that much of an issue, but with them not dealing with it normally I know it's going to happen sometime and it's going to hurt. If the first trap was ever in the center of the raid I'd think twice about using it, however it shouldn't be taking you more than 2 traps to kill him so if not the first trap, I'd use the second no matter what.
As far as the parasites go, usually it's a transition phase that we mess up the parasites. Normal form to demon form when we're spreading out. Then we have the times where our mage stands on top of nova and it starts to go downhill. At least 2 wipes this week due to that stuff.
The chance you take using the traps is quite worth the reward. Our kill last night is probably the worst Illidan kill ever (drawing soul from 15% to 25% and killing the lock tank in that next demon form and then shearing and killing MT and then shearing the OT) and using the traps at the end saved us. Getting that extra damage and lowering the time of the fight and being able to skip a demon form phase can be the difference between a kill and a wipe.
MT didn't get shear; he got triple demons. Illidan did shear the OT twice after that, but he survived. Yay, lucky dodge streaks.
The chance you take using the traps is quite worth the reward. Our kill last night is probably the worst Illidan kill ever (drawing soul from 15% to 25% and killing the lock tank in that next demon form and then shearing and killing MT and then shearing the OT) and using the traps at the end saved us. Getting that extra damage and lowering the time of the fight and being able to skip a demon form phase can be the difference between a kill and a wipe.
I dunno we only get 2 demon phases anyway on each phase 4. A trap here wouldn't have much to improve on.
We've only used 1 trap in 4 or 5 kills... the rest have literally all been in the raid, or in the wall...
We've yet to wipe in phase 4, and I think changing that just for some big crits is silly.
Finally took him down tonight. We didn't even dare use any traps either, things were going pretty smoothly and there just didn't seem any reason to rock the boat.
Do you guys do anything special to deal with p3? Such as ranged up closer or anything to help DPS the demons down quick while managing to stay spread?
I wouldn't suggest this but this is what we did. We had Illidan tanked next to one of the pillars, then we ran back as he went demon. Then after the initial aoe fire attack (can't recall the name). We had people run back even more and possibly be in range of 2 people, get the demons then move up. It was really nice having ~100 yards to kill a demon. Never had any issues killing them. Our warlock would get aggro and 4-5 sec before the demons also run back.
I'm not sure what the downside to using the traps is, but maybe that's because we've never had them bug out or anything odd along those lines -- Maiev ports, tank runs to trap, clicks as Illidan arrives, then we DPS. Illidan ends up at 10%-12% after one trap, turns into a demon once, and then promptly dies.
For us the vast majority of traps are simply inaccessible. We tank near the right pillar (if you are the raid looking at him toward the wall). Maybe its a bad spot - but they end up either in the middle of the room, behind the pillar, or completely inaccessible near a wall (without antikiting and probably healing).
And only had 1 trap that was essentially reachable in roughly 10-15 traps.
Moving the boss when a demon is imminent, and a risk of the heal hitting the raid when it is over seems to not make it worth using necessarily. I'd think you're far more likely to wipe due to illidan being in a bad position - or moving out of healer range - or having the warlock tank be forced too close, than doing double dps for a few seconds, with risks of buggy effects after.
Remember when guilds didn't flip Nefarian on phase 2 during rogue calls? I think this is worse by a lot.
We use a strategy of having Illidan at the left pillar, then get him to ~32% before a demon phase, deal with that and then when he switches back we drag him to the back wall directly between the pillars. The traps are normally in good positions - if they aren't we just ignore them. The main problem with traps is that people lose their heads when parasites come. I could certainly see ignoring them as being a perfectly viable strategy, especially if you don't tank it in a trap-friendly area.
The only downside to the traps is sometimes you'll catch people in a draw soul if they don't move fast enough.
In our first kill, we had a bad draw soul while moving to a trap, and he healed about 5%. Even still, we killed him in only 2 traps. If you lust in P2 on elementals, they should be back up again by the time you do the first trap. It's really crazy to me to consider not using them.
We always try to use the traps but usually miss one of the two because she drops it next to a wall and our MT is a fatass tauren who forgets to use a Nogginfogger's.
We killed Illidan for the first time on monday, and i was wondering if any of the other tanks had noticed him instantly shearing sometimes once the trap fades?
By the looks of it we got really lucky with traps.
08/26/07, 4:29 PM
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