seminarca

It was in response to this. Threat doesn't necessarily have to be poor, Warlocks have been used to tank many encounters in past and have managed fine threat wise. Not to mention, the raid doesn't even need to DPS the Warlock's Flame at all (in which case threat is completely inconsequential), they can DPS the Paladin's Flame first, then once that dies, he can run over and taunt the other one off the Warlock .. all the Warlock would need to do is keep it occupied and not die. Damage intake would only be worse due to lack of avoidance, which Fel Armor and Soul Link can partially compensate for.

 

PsiVen

I stand corrected, if you have the other tank taunt off him for DPS I can certainly see it being useful to sub him in.

 

Blacksen

I would argue that the lack of avoidance is fairly significant and certainly outweighs any gains from Fel Armor and Soul Link. Soul link is a very poor example because it is an illusion. It's not causing less damage to actually occur. Every single bit of damage done by the flames must be healed through (doh), thus Soul Link actually does not reduce healer burden. There is a case to be made for Fel Armor, but again, it's not significant enough to really take a stand.

Fel Armor reduces healer burden by only 17.7% (20% that fel armor says is incorrect. If you get hit for 100, a healer has to heal you for 83.33333 dmg. 17.7% healer burden actually reduced. However, a tank who's avoiding 35% (which is what my avoidance is in FR gear without GoA or scorpid sting) is reducing healer burden by significantly more.

And let's not forget a threat issue here, especially in your example. You're citing a paladin tank on the flames, and why they can do it fine, we've always been forced to have our paladins tank the second flame. Paladins lose/gain the most threat from gear, so putting on FR gear causes significant changes. Not only that, but no holy shield is going to kill his threat. The warlock can't cast searing pain because the flames are immune. The result will be threat capped on both ends.

 

Denogran

But we can use exorcism, which definitely makes up a decent amount of the threat gap. We almost always kill my flame first, without any problems. Warriors lose a fair amount of threat with the items they drop too, so the key is to stress to your dps to watch their damn aggro. Ours has pulled off a warrior and myself by being idiots in the past, although getting more comfortable tanking the flames and avoiding eyebeams has helped my threat output considerably, and it's been a long time since they've pulled aggro off.

Also, the argument here isn't that it's optimal, but that it's a good fix. You already likely have a warlock with a decent amount of FR gear, so gearing them up to tank the flames will probably be a lot faster than completely gearing up a new tank. And it's certainly a better option than having one tank try to tank both flames (although that would be interesting, please frap if you do this).

 

seminarca

Honestly, don't read that much into my post =/

I'm not suggesting people go out and start replacing their current Flame tanks with Warlocks willy nilly. The suggestion given was for a very specific issue that was posted in regards to someone's unique problem, that's all. If it's a decision between A) having 1 person tank 2 Flames simultaneously (all sorts of chaos, I don't think you could do is successfully, but I'd be happy to be proven wrong), B) not killing Illidan or C) trying with a Warlock (not optimal, but not impossible either), then I'd probably pick C.

 

Anedris

Fun fact: I've actually successfully tanked a flame without any more FR than my aura. (No, it wasn't intentional, but my healers kept me up, heh.)

 

Tacitus

I just tanked the second flame on my warlock yesterday (only had one of our FR tanks online) and I was surprised how easy it was. One resto druid kept me and my puppy up (I had370 FR with a totem and 15k life + SL). Took it down on our third try after a summer break so the raid was kinda unfocused.

Threat wasn't really a problem since we killed the druid's target first and then mine. The opening threat was done with a quick deathcoil and then it was just dot's & DL.

Brotherhood, Peace, Unity

Welcome back, Comrade

 

• Chicken

I posted an image on the page before this one which is pretty much completely accurate based on my own testing. See here: The Illidan Thread (was "Flames of Azzinoth Question")

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

mhr_78

I'd never thought i'd ask such a question, but how do you know you are standing in a safe spot in phase2 beside watching your SCT/Parrot incoming damage for blaze ticks. Maybe because the visual clues of what the screen renders to me.

Basically very often i run out safe spots to move the flame, or notice that i am tanking it in a "safe" position, allthough still blaze ticks happen due to it's poor rendering. I tried spell details at minimum or maximum but i am really lost on this.

Asking from this screenshot: "Can i use more space for blazes, or is this the maximum"

 

◊ Penguin

I watch SCT, it's pretty trivial to figure out that that when it's in the 400-900 range, the damage is from blue flames, and 2000+ is Blaze damage.

You're under-utilizing the space you have available. Conservatively, the flame can safely be held anywhere in the shaded area:

which means that blazes could be even wider, as you yourself can stand slightly outside the leash area as long as the flame stays in.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

 

Gunn

be advised that in the aboved picture you will need to make sure that you stay within the shaded area as well or you are likely to go out of Glaive aura range.

 

Cranberry

To your former question, there's no good way other than watching the ticks. This seems like a good candidate for an addon, just a simple "YOU'RE IN BLAZE" in midscreen.

Short answer to the latter question: Yes.

Longer answer: The key thing to remember here is that the blaze will spawn where YOU are, and not where the flame is. Thus, the flame might move back and forth along a thin area, but as long as you're in different places, you won't stack them. See the following MS Paint diagram:

http://img523.imageshack.us/img523/9217/azzinge0.jpg

 

◊ Cathela

SCT can display an icon next to incoming heals and damage (I think I got this by default, so I'm not sure if there's something that needs to be done to turn it on, or what). Blaze, the fire breath, and the eye beam trails all have different icons, so it's pretty easy to figure out.

One subtle point here is that while the flame breath and the blaze start off synchronized, they occur on slightly different coldowns, and as the fight progresses the blaze spawn will gradually fall a few second behind the breath. So don't start moving on the breath; start moving when you actually get a tick of blaze damage.

My comrades are my weapons, and I am their shield.

 

Turgid

Got our first kill on the "Thanks for staying late, we promise this is the last attempt of night!" attempt about 40 minutes past our normal raid end time. I think it was our third time to reach p5.

Thanks to everyone for all the help in the thread.

 

• moz

Honestly, taking a tick or two of blaze initially is far less important than properly spacing your blazes and not screwing up your path, keeping it in the 'safe zone' and not roasting people when you turn it. I've seen folks who try to do this try to move immediately and/or avoid a single tick of blaze and as a result screw up their path to the point that they end up having to sit in blazes when eye blasts happen or double or triple stacking blazes, which is pretty undesirable for a number of reasons. Turning spell detail down a tad and using whatever combat log to detect a blaze is by far the best method I've found. Another point which was brought up in this thread earlier for raid leaders or even tanks tracking their progress on this phase of the fight is to constantly look at the blaze:flames damage ratio for attempts, if your tanks are not at least clearing 1:2, there may be something wrong with how they are doing it -- definitely puts unnecessary stress on your healers if you're trying to learn the phase.

 

clavarnway

Had a tank death during Illidan's Enrage.

06:12'46.700 Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Okragos for 10473 Physical damage (414 blocked)
06:12'46.763 Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Okragos for 5586 Physical damage
06:12'47.794 Illidan Stormrage's Swing hits Okragos for 11417 Physical damage (414 blocked)
06:12'48.278 Okragos's Death misses Okragos

(edited out anything that wasn't hits, to make it brief)

Are those numbers too high? I am wondering if Illidan was fully debuffed, mostly Demo Shout and also wondering if the tank was using Ironshield Potions. Just wondering how big those numbers compare to other tanks when they take hits during Enrage.

And yes shit luck that he didn't avoid any of them.

http://sigs.guildlaunch.net/sig.php/1424974uXyta.png

 

◊ Penguin

Looks like no Demo Shout and no Thunderclap, with a 1sec swing on that MH hit.

There's not some hidden "but he tries really hard" variable built into the game. -Slake

I always love the "it doesn't fit my style of play" line. There are only two styles of play; Correct, and Incorrect. The only people that ever use this line are people with the incorrect style of play. -Sebudai

 

kadi

In tanking the Fires.. I am FR capped but not too sure on the Armor cap, if needed on this fight as well as def capped. DO you need to be Armor & or DEf capped to tank the flames?

 

Denogran

Armor won't do anything. Defense cap is helpful.

 

kadi

So ur saying dont worry about the armor, just say socket stam if im def capped ?

 

Lyssa

They're dealing magical damage; armor only helps against physical damage. Ignore armor altogether - go for stamina and threat after you've got both FR cap and def cap.

 

Quosit

When I tanked the flames, I took around 40-50% (if i remember correctly) more dmg than our druid flame tank. We also had the druid taunt the flame off me, so, like someone already said, my job was purely to keep the flame hitting me while they killed the other flame. So, threat isn't an issue with this tactic. Although, it is ofcourse better to use two proper tanks for the flames due to avoidance.

However, there is one point in your post, that you do not take in account. Healers continously spam heals for the tanks, even though they might have avoided most of the attacks and are around 100% in HP. Thus, even though I took more dmg, the healers spent the same amount of mana healing me as they did healing the other tank. In my case they just didn't waste so much of their mana due to over-healing.

 

emoon3

I wrote a simple addon to alert you when you are standing in Blaze.

WoWInterface Downloads : Ace: Combat : Blazed

I know you don't need an addon to do it and there are other addons that can be set to do it. I just wanted a small addon that only did that.

Hope it helps.

 

Moonblaze

ooh nice one. I'll be sure to relay this to our FR tanks
So far this thread has helped us a lot, so we managed getting to phase 4. Hopefully killing the guy soon now

 

2Cute2BeStr8

i wondering if the flames of azzinoth actually had any armor value becuase we put curse of recklessness and weakness up on them, and i thing that CoE would bet better. I had heard that they have 0 armor and was wondering if there were any post verifying this?