Omen gives the '90% of MT threat' based on who he is targetting, so if he turns and targets a priest or something for a parasite it will give you the warning. Mage agro is probably because of water elementals - all mages get credit for agro for all of the elementals according to threat meters.
It was saying our MT's name, not someone he was targeting, I've used threat meters for a while now. I'm formatting before the next illidan, so hopefully my folders which I've never deleted before are the problem.
So we got through phase 2 once tonight, the rest of the times the primary issue seemed to be tanks dying. We had a few attempts that people pulled aggro off of our feral druid, even after getting a MD, not sure what was up with that. Below is WWS from tonight, the flame tanks are Aurica and Norfin. To me it looks like they are taking way too much blaze damage but I would like some others input as well.
Below is WWS from tonight, the flame tanks are Aurica and Norfin.
Comparing that to our last Illidan - both fire res tanks took ~150 total "hits" for fire damage. Comparing that to your druid on your longest attempt (~5.4mil damage) and he took almost double that. Either your p2 is lasting a lot longer, or your druid is doing something wrong. On that attempt your warrior took 129, which is fine I think (at least for that attempt). Comparing it with this Illidan which is from quite a while ago, but I know I got _all_ the eye beams on my side on, shows that even then I took ~290 total ticks of fire (and our other FR tank - Qruz - took ~100). What may help is making sure they are using the max-zoom command which allows a much better overview of the area (I think it's /console SET "cameraDistanceMax" 250 but I'm not certain).
Sasugaa: this post has a fairly decent layout of gear, which I'm still using now.
So we got through phase 2 once tonight, the rest of the times the primary issue seemed to be tanks dying. We had a few attempts that people pulled aggro off of our feral druid, even after getting a MD, not sure what was up with that. Below is WWS from tonight, the flame tanks are Aurica and Norfin. To me it looks like they are taking way too much blaze damage but I would like some others input as well.
The best way to judge an Illidan Flame tank's performance is by comparing the ratio of damage from "Flames of Azzinoth" melee to "Blaze", the green fire. After judging my own performance, I consider a ratio of 4:1 to be "great", 3:1 is "good", and 2:1 is "not good" (but acceptable on a single attempt if you have bad luck with eye beams).
Norfin is doing a good job. Across all attempts, Norfin took 2.88 million damage from Flames of Azzinoth melee and .74 million damage from Blaze. This is a ratio of 3.9:1.
Aurica needs improvement. Across all attempts, Aurica took 2.23 million damage from Flames of Azzinoth melee and 1.03 million damage from Blaze. This is a ration of 2.16:1.
I would talk to Aurica and see what he is doing different compared to Norfin. Make sure that Aurica is not standing in Blaze to make things easier on the melee. An extra few seconds of melee DPS is not worth risking a tank death, especially when the healing burden in P2 is already very high. Until Aurica's performance improves, I would also encourage you to focus on killing Aurica's flame first.
(E) Woops, .74 million not 7.4 million =) Thanks snape.
The best way to judge an Illidan Flame tank's performance is by comparing the ratio of damage from "Flames of Azzinoth" melee to "Blaze", the green fire. After judging my own performance, I consider a ratio of 4:1 to be "great", 3:1 is "good", and 2:1 is "not good" (but acceptable on a single attempt if you have bad luck with eye beams).
Norfin is doing a good job. Across all attempts, Norfin took 2.88 million damage from Flames of Azzinoth melee and 7.4 million damage from Blaze. This is a ratio of 3.9:1.
Aurica needs improvement. Across all attempts, Aurica took 2.23 million damage from Flames of Azzinoth melee and 1.03 million damage from Blaze. This is a ration of 2.16:1.
I would talk to Aurica and see what he is doing different compared to Norfin. Make sure that Aurica is not standing in Blaze to make things easier on the melee. An extra few seconds of melee DPS is not worth risking a tank death, especially when the healing burden in P2 is already very high. Until Aurica's performance improves, I would also encourage you to focus on killing Aurica's flame first.
Yeah, part way through the night we did swap over to killing Aurica's first which seemed to help. Thanks for the advice, I'll be sure to talk with him some.
The best way to judge an Illidan Flame tank's performance is by comparing the ratio of damage from "Flames of Azzinoth" melee to "Blaze", the green fire. After judging my own performance, I consider a ratio of 4:1 to be "great", 3:1 is "good", and 2:1 is "not good" (but acceptable on a single attempt if you have bad luck with eye beams).
Norfin is doing a good job. Across all attempts, Norfin took 2.88 million damage from Flames of Azzinoth melee and 7.4 million damage from Blaze. This is a ratio of 3.9:1.
Aurica needs improvement. Across all attempts, Aurica took 2.23 million damage from Flames of Azzinoth melee and 1.03 million damage from Blaze. This is a ration of 2.16:1.
I would talk to Aurica and see what he is doing different compared to Norfin. Make sure that Aurica is not standing in Blaze to make things easier on the melee. An extra few seconds of melee DPS is not worth risking a tank death, especially when the healing burden in P2 is already very high. Until Aurica's performance improves, I would also encourage you to focus on killing Aurica's flame first.
I just sat here dumbstruck trying to figure out your math (because as written it's just not right), and I found the problem. I believe you meant 740,000 damage from Blaze on Norfin, not 7.4 million.
It's not really necessary in order to tank Illidan. I make sure my dots are ticking when he falls to the ground and just hit him with Searing Pain a couple times. His threat table is reset at the start of each demon phase. Searing Pain is rather difficult for anyone to out-aggro.
So we nudged into p5 last night, but had way too many people down. We are getting clean p2s and I'm sure he'd be dead if it wasn't for Canadian thanksgiving on Sunday which caused us to lose a night of raiding.
Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions on cleaning up p3/p4 -- specifically when the melee run in to kill demons, there is a fairly high chance that they chain the fire onto each other + other raid members. Currently, we have 2 melee covering the left, middle, and right sides each. Is it a simply a spacing issue? It really turned into a game of attrition for us, and 1 raid member or so would drop each time. Keep in mind, this only happened when we were trying to kill demons.
So we nudged into p5 last night, but had way too many people down. We are getting clean p2s and I'm sure he'd be dead if it wasn't for Canadian thanksgiving on Sunday which caused us to lose a night of raiding.
Anyway, does anyone have any suggestions on cleaning up p3/p4 -- specifically when the melee run in to kill demons, there is a fairly high chance that they chain the fire onto each other + other raid members. Currently, we have 2 melee covering the left, middle, and right sides each. Is it a simply a spacing issue? It really turned into a game of attrition for us, and 1 raid member or so would drop each time. Keep in mind, this only happened when we were trying to kill demons.
We only have 1 or 2 rogues on the front lines. Their priority is to apply crippling poison and DPS the demon with the shortest travel time. Ranged DPS is up front and does the majority of the damage.
There's really no reason for your melee to clump up to kill a shadow demon because ranged DPS can handle it just as easily (and more safely). This also lets ranged DPS hit Illidan a little bit.
We just tell the melee not to kill demons until after the second flame burst. By the time the third is out the adds are all dead and people have spread back out.
We only have 1 or 2 rogues on the front lines. Their priority is to apply crippling poison and DPS the demon with the shortest travel time. Ranged DPS is up front and does the majority of the damage.
There's really no reason for your melee to clump up to kill a shadow demon because ranged DPS can handle it just as easily (and more safely). This also lets ranged DPS hit Illidan a little bit.
Our melee dps is not at the front at all.
We all start in the back, and run in when the demons spawn. And we make sure the melee are assigned a specific side to attack on in order to avoid clumping up too much. It's just when we have demons + fire we lose people.
I guess it depends entirely on what works best for your raid comp. For P4 we have our meele lined up on the grate (2 rogues, 1 dps warrior) and then all the ranged + healers way back behind the grate. We dont put any dps on Illidan at all during his demon phase. We just tank Illidan, move the raid way back behind the grate area and we all just focus on staying alive and killing demons. Having the 3 meele up front is great for us because they get on the demons and make quick work of them. I can see a big problem if you're doing this with a meele heavy raid though.
As for advice for cleaning up your P3/P4 what worked for us was to focus on control and survival during this phase. Whole raid moves way, way back when he moves to demon form. No DPS on Illidan, people need to bandage/healthstones/fire potions after the first flame burst. Fire potions are the big thing here, we went through over 500 of them on our first kill night. Make sure if you don't need to be taking super manas people are slamming fire potions on cooldown. We bring 4 shaman and assign one to plop earthbind right on top of Illidan when he's shifting from P3-P4. That snares all the demons immediately, then the other 3 shaman spread their earthbind totems out in front of the raid. Another thing is that it's not so much the demons need to be burned down ASAP, it's that they need to be snared ASAP. Get them snared and then work on killing them. You can put a ton of dps on the demons but if they're moving at 100% speed you're probably going to lose some people. When people go to kill demons they HAVE to keep in mind they cant clump up while killing them. You will lose people to flame bursts if they're clustered up trying to finish demons. Make sure no one gets within ~15, ~20yrd ? near your shadow tank or they're going to eat a massive nuke. Illidans room is quite massive, take advantage of the space we're given for this encounter.
Having four warlocks casting four Seed of Corruption on Illidan when he starts summoning the demons makes killing them trivial. They have below 30% hp left after 8 seconds, unless they are dead. Melee are not needed. (Totems and Hunter trap slows them down of course.)
We have everyone run far back the closest anyone should be is the middle of the grate. If melee stand closer and they should get a demon there isnt time to kill it. The first AoE is simply eaten by the raid all standing apart. Then the melee run foward when the dmeons pop. They each have an assigned target left, next leftmost etc. There are 4 ranged nearish the lock to take out fast any demon that happens to target the lock. The demons are slowed by crippling poison, frostbolts etc. When the 2nd AoE occurs the melee are spread apart, its on an exact timer so we know when its about to occur. The healers simply stand at the back healing up the AoE damage during this time. After the the 2nd AoE most of the healers and the tank run forward ready for the pickup. The 3rd AoE occurs with the healers spread near the tanking spot about 20 yards out, the dps spread behind them, all the demons should be dead by then. Illidan wakes up and the melee move in. The initial slow on the demon can be done with traps or EB totems. I always drop an EB totem close to him on transition. It lives long enough to still be up when the demons pop and slows them at the start before the melee arrive.
Then its onto the next phase. Spamming the tank with heals to ensure he lives even when illidan is enraged. If a trap is close we use it, if its far we ignore it and heal through the enrage to prevent having to move the raid. Parasite people run out of the raid group into space followed by 2 mages who FN and take down the parasites. If you get parasited when illidan is enraged then pop a HS or pot since you will take 4.5k per tick from the parasite debuff. If the MT gets parasite then melee run out and the mages FN the parasite as they come out.
Rinse and repeat. Be careful when taking him to 30%, control your dps, since any parasites up will still be up when the shield ends and can cause problems.
Parasites up when the shield ends can be instagibbed it seems - also on our last kill they seemed to magically despawn (perhaps fixed?).
I would add that control on the phase 4 transition is paramount, seeing as how if it is done while he is lurched over, or demon form, will cause his aggro table to become buggy - generally killing your warlock tank, etc.
For killing demons, we send some heavy hitters in - and it isn't a problem. We tend to let Edgewalker suicide/reck when more than 1 are on the warlock tank.
We've also had them despawn on a couple of occasions, before 2.2.2. It's unpredictable and just one of those quirky things. The better approach is to not have any parasites up to begin with.
We've also had them despawn on a couple of occasions, before 2.2.2. It's unpredictable and just one of those quirky things. The better approach is to not have any parasites up to begin with.
We slick our hair back and live dangerously. Caution is thrown to the winds with parasites.
But I can honestly say that we tend to instagib them before they cause any damage since they seem to be up more than half of the time on our transitions. I'm not sure they are a huge concern, but if they do get out of control, especially in phase 4, you're looking at a world of hurt. Perhaps as the encounter-control freak that I normally am, I'm going to simply nod and say this is good advice to all those learning this encounter.
With the hardest part of the fight over (phase 2), and everyone not wanting to "blow" their good attempt, then being careful on the transition seems quite appropriate.
I'm not sure how taboo this is on these boards as I've never seen something like it posted, but we killed council on monday and we worked on illidan tonight.
I feel like we're maybe a full flask timer ahead of where we would be without this video:
It's basically a tank's perspective with commentary about their phase 2 and how they do it. We're not doing it exactly the same way but it really feels like it helped us a lot so I figured I'd put it in here.
This video has already been posted in this thread. Together with the explanation of Flame of Azzinoth charge mechanics a very good preparation for all those first time Illidan guilds.
I am very curious how my intense preparation for Illidan, with the help of this thread, will work out (hopefully this sunday). We are planning on letting the blizzards and SoC take care of the demons though i am not sure how to handle a situation where 3 or 4 of the aoe classes get stunned (since they are already very close to Illidan). Is this just a "I hope this doesn't happen next try" kind of thing or is there any advice on how to not be this dependant on luck using aoe on the demons?
10/05/07, 10:26 PM
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