It has been stated that the Red Dragonflight is siding with the mortal races, aiding them against the Blue's crusade. So, on the simple end, we might find an "Essence of the Red" sort of thing. On the complex end, it could be an event where you're aiding, say, Alexstrasza in her attempt to covince Malygos he's wrong (or aiding *her* in killing/deposing him).

We might also find that Malygos has been in some fashion influenced or enthralled by another power. Aspects have proven susceptible to the Old Gods in the past, and I believe it's been confirmed that the Forgotten One is an Old God active under Azjol-Nerub.

I realize this is firmly under "speculation", but I would doubt we're killing Malgyos (though it's possible there's a storyline to depose him so that Tyrygosa can ascend to the head of the Blue flight), more like defeating/stopping/freeing/slapping him around. And, in terms of "Blue Dragon = Anti-caster", you could look at it the other way - if Malygos is so magic-centric, casters might be playing unusual and crucial roles to keep his power in check. *shrugs*

Wow, don't know how I messed that up. fixed.

How about fixing it so that's it's not so horribly ugly and difficult to read?

Broken up into individual lists, ~20 items each; fixed some typos, etc. I could probably make it even easier to read by threading it, and grouping like themed ideas, but that would ruin the rambling flow of the conversation.

Wow, nice job on cleaning it up. Maybe some mod could edit that monster into the OP (since Teza most likely won't do it/read the thread)?

(Zul'Jin still wasn't a traitor >_>)

Hell, you don't even have to go that far back. Roll a male troll and do /charge

What about the Revantusk, who are very much a part of the Horde? You can chillax with them in Hinterlands. In one of the questlines the acting leader of the Revantusk says he wishes their real leader Zul'jin would come back and kill all of their feral cousins in the Hinterlands effortlessly, but you have to do it the hard way.

Either way Zul'jin swore an oath to Doomhammer and as Thrall was passed legitimate sovereignty by him Zul'jin should not willingly declare war on the Horde. Its that same oath that caused him to impose self-exile after he disappointed the Horde in the last days of the Second War.

Trolls are into voodoo.

Zul'Jin was thought dead for quite a while.

An undead Zul'Jin would be pretty abominable to everybody on all sides of the conflict.

Just saying.

It doesn't even need to be voodoo, for that matter. Hameya's Plea, a quest in EPL, indicates that trolls can fall under the influence of the Lich King by eating infected meat, just like the citizens of Stratholme who became undead from eating the tainted grain from Andorhal. Given Zul'aman's proximity to the Plaguelands, it could be a possible scenario for why Zul'jin is aggressive to everyone, and a tie-in to the Northrend expansion.

Sorry for digging this up but I figured some might be interested in
WoW-Europe.com Forums -> Info About 2.3/2.4 and beyond (Upd: 19-09)

WoW-Europe.com Forums -> Information About the Expansion (Upd: 19-09)

I found both threads very informative and it is a good compiliation of information, even if you happen to know most of it already.

One thing I'm curious about is whether or not they will keep Naxxramas the same in terms of having 15 bosses. My initial thought was that they would just go with a 'highlights' version with Horsemen, Maexxna, Heigen (b/c Loatheb is awful), Thaddius, Sapphiron, and Kel'Thuzad. That would be six bosses which is closer to the number of bosses in TBC raid instances.

However... while browsing the WoW expansion forum, I came across this from CM Bornak:

Source.

Anyone else think it's a bit odd to have a 15 boss raid zone right off the bat when the largest TBC had was 9? Of course, I suppose they could always just make Naxx 2.0 the only Tier 7 zone as opposed to the dual-zones you had in TBC.

Since Naxx naturally has a hub design, it fits with the (attempted) nonlinear model of SSC/TK and could certainly house the only T7 tokens. Plus there were complaints at the required mixing of 10- and 25-man content, so it's possible they intend to have a separate tier system (or no sets?) for the progression of 10-man raids.

I think they are very intentionally putting Naxx out there as a long starting zone so that we don't have the same problems as TBC release, where there were too few accessible bosses right away and even fewer were killable for most guilds. Assuming they keep the rough design and bosses similar, we're talking 4 very different entry-level 25-man raid bosses plus whoever ends up as the "Onyxia" of Northrend, versus most killing Maulgar and experiencing epic failure at the hands of Gruul and Magtheridon. The more paths at the entry point, the less likely it is that new raiders will become frustrated.

Exactly, Naxx 2.0 if well tuned to the level of a 2.1 Gruul or Magetheridon would help smooth the transition into the harder content. Progression guilds who likely saw a lot of Naxx 1.0 can progress through the zone quickly while the more casual players can experience something they might see a lot of.

The biggest issue with TBC was the initial (over)tuning of the raid encounters versus the loot quality if they pull this off it will be a win for Hardcore and casual raiders alike.

Another perk of having Naxxramas as the entry level instance is, if they so choose to tune entry level gear equal to Sunwell drops, the forefront guilds could just skim past Naxxramas, since it's likely they've already experienced the first incarnation.

(I'm aware Tigole said they wanted a similar gear reset to TBC since 'players like upgrades and like them fast.' One can dream though. Dream and suggest...)

The way it was talked about in some interviews really made it sound like a well organized, experienced guild wouldn't even need to clear Naxx 2.0, that it would be more of a training ground for the new or less agile guilds. They also said that many of the bosses would be reconfigured so that its not the same instance that you're clearing, 4H was mentioned in particular, I believe 2-3 other bosses were explicitly named as well.

I hope you're right Malan. I'm all for letting the other 99% of the population experience Naxx, but I spent enough time/money clearing that place to never want to go back.

Well, they have to tune down the instance so it fits with 25 man raiding and not 40. As mentioned, 4 horsemen would be impossible. The instance could turn out to be very different. It shouldnt be tied into any attunement process though.

Which ofc makes total sense lore wise/location wise. However in game terms its not so practical as you now have 2 of the major raid instances (and a new 5man) deep in Horde Territory which will be a nightmare on PvP servers for alliance players if there isn't some sort of change to the PvP flagging around the instances. Then also you have the fact that as its horde territory there will be no alliance flight points etc, there surely will have to be some sort of teleport system for alliance? Wont really find out till 2.3/2.4 hit the test servers I guess.

The Sunwell is ostensibly not right in the middle of everything there but rather off to the side. For all we know the plateau with the instance gates is an entirely separate zone reachable only by teleportation...

As for Zul'Aman, something tells me that if people can manage to zone into Kara, they'll figure it out. Remember, Horde territory just means they don't have to fight if they don't want to. It's not like you'll be unable to retaliate as they beat the hell out of you, just that you might not get to gank them later.

I could be mistaken, but I believe at some point Naxx was originally designed to be 25 man, and they had to retrofit the zone for 40 when they decided to push the 25man raid content to TBC. Really 4H wouldn't be too much of a stretch considering even a Holy Paladin could tank the back two with relative ease. So figure 2 Warriors, 2 Druids, 2 Paladins at least. You could even Hunter pet tank the back two. I remember using alt warriors with bad gear on some nights.

You're thinking of doing Naxx at level 70 when it was designed for 60. They will be redesigning it for level 80 now so you cant really say something like a hunter pet can tank the horsemen.

Its still possible to use 4HM, especially with a 4th tanking class available to people.

Adapt the marks and you have 1 man rotation moving through it (think the 6 tank strat), the benefit to adjusting the mark system too is it makes things easier for the rest of the raid too.

They didn't hit very hard on the tanks anyway.


The fight can be do-able for 25 people without having one of the 4HM having a sick day.

I would think that an area around the instances could be marked as contested territory, because I doubt the horde can (as of now) lay claim to the sunwell. So there could be a sort of mini zone border that PvP flags you. This would prevent the cases where an unflagged horde is hovering around the alliance just waiting for a soft squishy target. Or "gank squads" hanging around and insta gibbing an alliance player without them being able to defend themselves or attack their antagonizers first.

We have Arenas which are essentially small areas that flag players as they enter, as well as seamless zone borders to contested zones etc. I do not think it would be a big deal to implement.