That would be true if people got one single life-time rating.
But they don't. They can form teams whenever they want. They can leave their sub-1500 rating behind, and start at 1500 again. This causes a constant injection of points into the ranking system. The average rating of players therefor is above 1500. Also, you get to pick the best out of 3 ratings (2vs2, 3vs3, 5vs5). As a result, the individual player'
I have seen this assumption several times. But do you have any proof?
Here are some numbers from Bloodlust 2v2.
So their are approximately 17500 teams below 1500 and 12500 Teams above 1500. If I spent a bit more work I could find the average ranking team of 15000 but its pretty obvious their rating must be below 1500.
So their are approximately 17500 teams below 1500 and 12500 Teams above 1500. If I spent a bit more work I could find the average ranking team of 15000 but its pretty obvious their rating must be below 1500.
This is mean vs. median. The average team in the sense of summing all team ratings and dividing by the number of teams is the mean. This is what inflates the average from poor teams starting over. The middle ranked team on the other hand may or may not be near the mean rating.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."
Basically teams which win tend to stay together, those which go below well below 1500 tend to be retired. There are numerically more teams below 1500, as if you lose once you are likely to lose again. Maybe they mothball the old team, but save the name for next season to reduce the cost, maybe they keep playing all season as at least eventually the games become reasonably challenging and fun.
Typically two thirds of listed teams tend to be below or at ~1500. What this "means" is open to debate.
It's called ELO inflation. In any given ELO system, points will always skyrocket upwards in due time. It's less apparent in chess, but very apparent in WoW. People leave their original rated teams to form new ones. It's made even worse with smurfing and arena power-leveling. I don't think anyone can say as a definitive fact what the "median" score is in any given bracket, except that it's higher in 2v2 than 3v3 than 5v5.
Originally Posted by sadris
Adding useful defensive stats to PVP weapons has nothing which REQUIRES them to function or even be useful in PVE.
Cloak of Rogueslol
Equip: You have a 10% chance to avoid gaining the Mortal Strike and a 30% to avoid gaining the Wound Poison debuffs upon potential application.
Relentless Gladiator's Gavel of Healing
Equip: Every time you take damage, the attacker has a 5% chance to be stunned for 3 seconds.
Etc, etc. Defensive bonuses which have no benefit in a PVE setting.
A little off topic, but: what PvP/PvE needs is less of a "% chance" to do "insert overpowered ability that can drastically change the outcome of a match" type of thing. Although randomness is in-escapable, having a small unstackable chance (eg, entirely luck based) to do something that can potentially win the match is utterly retarded.
That kinda ruins the whole "Only need to Pvp to be able to compete in Pvp" thing.... I don't think any1 who actively participates in the arena wants to see Pve on any lvl become required to compete again,
Uhm actually that one was ruined from day 1 of BC.
Well, I guess to some extent, how hard you worked leveling and instancing to get good gear prior to the start of season 1 gave PvE some impact on arena PvP.
However, someone who pvps a lot will eventually obtain their arena gear and their veteran's gear, and that gear is better than PvE gear for engaging in PvP, because the defensive superiority of the PvP gear is much larger than the offensive superiority of the PvE gear. Maybe it doesn't matter as much for certain matchups, but by and large, having a large pool of HP and high resilience will do more for you than a bit more AP/crit/spelldamage.
It all boils down to one thing: People who start doing *anything* sooner and put in more time will typically hold an advantage over people who start later and/or put in less time.
On top of it, there's all that spell haste equipment from BT / Hyjal. Also superior to the rather low itemleveled veteran's ornamented stuff. Ideally, you'd wear 4 T5 pieces, S2 gloves, full spellhaste set and MG Salvation + MG Redoubt + Medallion of the faction + Veteran's neck / ring of salvation + Band of the Vigilant.
That's still 147 resilience, enough to avoid being bursted down in seconds, and you'll probably have almost twice the healing output a paladin in 5/5 S2 with full Honor gear would have.
And it does go both ways - just not as extreme. PVP trinket on Archimonde? That's a lot of PVP required for a PVE boss, at least for someone who really dislikes PVP. Let's not forget how many people are using MG substitutes because their items don't drop in PVE, I ran around with a Gladiator BP for months because lightbinder wouldn't drop.
and this is just my perspective for the breach of PVP vs PVE. I know also that in 2on2 mirror matches warriors often switch to PVE DPS because that way they'll deal more damage to the paladin while the other warrior is busy whacking their paladin.
How about introducing a new offensive, PvP-only stat?
The idea would be that you take away 10 DPS (or whatever number) or spelldamage from a weapon and add "Equip: Your attacks and spells ignore 100 (or whatever) of your target's resilience."
Lo and behold, an awesome stat for everyone, since now you crit more, your crits do more damage and your dots too.
Now, this is for offensive weapons. Leave the healing mace unchanged, I think.
Edit: I just saw that this has been suggested previously in the thread. I'll keep this here though, as I think it's a good idea.
My guildies keep calling me a noob for thinking the Gladiator's healing mace isn't very good. The concept of a weapon with no regen makes me a sad panda. I can't help it. D:
Honestly, I'm kinda glad it's like that. It's not a superior healing weapon to most stuff attained through PvE (at least IMO) unlike the other weapons.
Relentless Gladiator's Gavel of Healing
Equip: Every time you take damage, the attacker has a 5% chance to be stunned for 3 seconds.
You're probably on to something with this.
As a healer, I would go nuts about something similar to:
Equip: Chance (rather large) on cast to ignore all healing debuffs on your target. This effect only occurs if you are currently involved in PvP, or in a battleground or arena instance.
with a corresponding 4 piece set bonus on the armor of
Equip: After being successfully stunned, feared, incapacitated, or having control of your character taken away by any other means (or some term thats less wordy) your next Holy Light (this is obviously the paladin version, was having a discussion of this not 10 minutes ago with a rogue friend about what could make PvP armor more attractive for some classes) is instant cast. This effect only occurs if you are currently involved in PvP, or in a battleground or arena instance.
Would probably make PvP gear more attractive for use in arenas, keep it less attractive for use outside of arenas, AND such effects (tweaked a bit) on weapons, with correspondingly lower DPS / Stats (330 +heal, 170 spellpower, 87-89dps 1handers, ect ), would keep them powerful in arenas, without making them a "must-have" for PvE.
"Equip: Your attacks and spells ignore 100 (or whatever) of your target's resilience."
The biggest downside of something like this is that it will actually encourage people to use PvE gear rather than PvP. If you know your resilience can be penetrated, why not just go ahead and wear the better DPS/healing/whatever PvE gear?
The biggest downside of something like this is that it will actually encourage people to use PvE gear rather than PvP. If you know your resilience can be penetrated, why not just go ahead and wear the better DPS/healing/whatever PvE gear?
Because while 100 Res can be penetrated the other 300 -> 400 can't be. Curse of shadows penetrated 75 shadow resist yet people still ran against Warlock teams w/ a Shadow resist set.
Well to start we'll just let everyone know that the arena ratings required for the season 3 items will be 1850 for the weapons, and 2000 for shoulders. Now, most people have expected the weapon rating since we announced it at BlizzCon, and it's a bit lower than we had initially said, but the shoulders are obviously going to raise some questions. The shoulders for any set are commonly the most visually representative, they're the most visible at any distance, and as they allow a lot of space compared to say a leg or bracer item, we commonly take them and really create something visually impressive. We want that visually impressive item to represent what a player has achieved, and so the achievement of being a contender in the arena at a higher level will be visually distinguished. The shoulders are also average in the benefit they provide, as compared to a chest or leg item for example, and without them the set bonuses can still be completed.
This raises the question of a player finding a team that is of a skill level higher than their own, and simply buying the item with points they've gained at a lower rating. To restrict this we're implementing a personal rating system in patch 2.3. This is an additional arena rating that is unique to each character for each team they belong to. This rating rises and declines using the same formula as the arena team rating, but only in games that character participates in. You'll also be able to track this rating through the PvP interface. The personal rating will be used for purchasing items that require a specific rating, and also be used to determine eligibility for the end of season rewards. So, a player will have to achieve a specific rating, and not just get into a team to see the rewards that are meant to visually distinguish the high-rated players.
Because while 100 Res can be penetrated the other 300 -> 400 can't be. Curse of shadows penetrated 75 shadow resist yet people still ran against Warlock teams w/ a Shadow resist set.
because you resisted Curse of Shadows with full SR
Just a quick question regarding arena, not important enough to start its own thread...why do you think Blizzard doesn't have organized Team Competition for Battlegrounds? Sort of arena for Eye of the Storm if you will.
Just a quick question regarding arena, not important enough to start its own thread...why do you think Blizzard doesn't have organized Team Competition for Battlegrounds? Sort of arena for Eye of the Storm if you will.
Except there is no rating or anything, I personally think it would be rather cool if they had organized teams competing against each other in the same fashion as arena. With rewards much akin to the arena stuff for having a higher rating.
Just because they have a goal other then just "kill your opponent" doesn't mean that skill is less important.
Except there is no rating or anything, I personally think it would be rather cool if they had organized teams competing against each other in the same fashion as arena. With rewards much akin to the arena stuff for having a higher rating.
Just because they have a goal other then just "kill your opponent" doesn't mean that skill is less important.
Take a page from CTF leagues and use a ladder system and WSG is pretty much perfect for an organized competitive BG.
Although it'd get boring, since there's only one map to CTF on... new CTF maps, that's the solution to the BG doldrums!
(Maybe not.)
Melador> Incidentally, these last few pages are why people hate lawyers.
Viator> I really don't want to go all Kalman here.
Bury> Just imagine what the world would be like if you used your powers for good.
"This raises the question of a player finding a team that is of a skill level higher than their own, and simply buying the item with points they've gained at a lower rating. To restrict this we're implementing a personal rating system in patch 2.3. This is an additional arena rating that is unique to each character for each team they belong to. This rating rises and declines using the same formula as the arena team rating, but only in games that character participates in. You'll also be able to track this rating through the PvP interface. The personal rating will be used for purchasing items that require a specific rating, and also be used to determine eligibility for the end of season rewards. So, a player will have to achieve a specific rating, and not just get into a team to see the rewards that are meant to visually distinguish the high-rated players."
This fixes very little, people will still buy the rating.(just do so early in the season) The cure seems worse then the disease to me. If players wants to stand out and look amazing, simply have gladiator only textures/models for armor. Mostly players would love black armor for example. On one hand they say they want fair competition...and to have skill decide...yet they need to give players with higher ranking an unfair advantage over those with lower ranking. If anything this system is going to increase team churn which is a large part of the problem.
Basically they seem to be overcorrecting for every minor issue, they first have an unbearable void of weapons, yet when players learn with 1500-1700 rating they can afford a weapon(s) in 7-10 weeks as a backup ...
"It all boils down to one thing: People who start doing *anything* sooner and put in more time will typically hold an advantage over people who start later and/or put in less time."
Yes but we do not have to exacerbate the problem and make artificial barriers to fair competition.
I'd buy into the whole "shoulders are a wonderful piece of armor whose distinctiveness should be reserved for the best players" if Gladiator sets weren't reskinned tier sets.
Meh. I hear a lot of people complain that the Gladiator gear looks like the Raid gear. I think it would be cool if they looked different. It would certainly allow for people that Raided or people that PvP'd to be recognized for what they really did. But I can't completely disagree with the change for the reason that a lot of people buy the shoulders first just because they're the biggest asthetic change to your toon. And people think it's cheap that they're so easy to get and cause such a change.
On the flip side, it probably hardly matters in most cases since, if you've played on your server for any length of time, it's pretty obvious that Joe in <Death and Taxes> is probably a raider. And Bob in <STUCKCAPZLOCKKEY> is probably...not.
The easiest solution would be to lower the base dps of all weapons, or spell damage/healing for casters, and add a scaling modifier equip: effect. The equip effect would add either AP, spell damage, or healing, and would scale with the amount of resilience you have equipped.
For example, [Merciless Gladiator's Spellblade] has 225 spell damage, if you dropped it to 150 base spell damage, and gained 1 spell damage for every 5 resilience you have equipped would give you 230 spell damage for a character equipped with 400 resilience.
It would give an advantage to those who excel in PvP by having a large amount of resilience, and making it equally worthless in PvE, so you pick up items in raiding environments to raid.
This would also alleviate the need for point requirements, because if you don't have say 2k points, your weapon would be relatively terrible so you'd want to upgrade your armor first anyway.
In all seriousness, I think they should make more pve items available through arena points. If people would be looking at 10k arena points to get equipment upgrades as opposed to a mere 2,6k-3,8k for a weapon set, I'm sure they'd view it more as an "alternate advancement" instead of a "painful necessity".
I won't debate the lack of weapon choices in raid instances, it's painfully obvious when looking at offhand swords. That problem however isn't solved by making the choice even poorer.
I'd buy into the whole "shoulders are a wonderful piece of armor whose distinctiveness should be reserved for the best players" if Gladiator sets weren't reskinned tier sets.
You know, you could also say that Tier sets are just reskinned Gladiator sets. Damn Blizzard, lavishing all that care on the Arena system and not bothering to make new art for the raiders...
For what it's worth (nothing whatsoever), I can't stand the look of almost any of the shoulderpieces, and wish there was a UI option to hide them.
09/23/07, 10:29 PM
Similar Threads
