This thread is titled "Arena Weapons" but I had to reply to this quote. While Rogue gear may somehow be that much more optimized for PvE than a DPS Warrior, the next logical "upgrade" for my chest is the Krakken off of Vashj. Yet I can guarantee you that it will in no way be a 30% upgrade over my current. 3-5% at best. The problem with Arena gear is not limited to weapons. It's just that the weapon disparity affects more classes than what the armor does.
The warrior Arena set is abnormally good for PvE. Most other classes' sets aren't nearly as good.
Resilience is hard-capped at 493/494, its not something that stacks high into the sky forever, and its already fairly achievable. Making it easier to "clump" would just drive the trends in favor of the three or four "clumpy" spots and go for the high damage/crit frills of PVE all over again, once again destroying the intended "balance," just in the other direction.
If you're talking about just piling stamina over and over again to make up for plunging DPS, you just turn the arenas into retards beating on eachother with nerf bats. It would be a fundamentally bad, tedious change to a major part of the game.
I think this is the main issue. Certainly, changing the weapons to have lower dps and more stam would make them less desirable in pve, and with the right weighting on damage vs. resil, possibly more usable in pvp. However, the pvp metagame is already getting to the point, at least in 2v2 and 3v3, where most people at the top-end are sitting near the resilience cap with 11k+ hp. I can tell you that the shadowpriest/lock combo I 3v3 with are starting to put their frozen shadowweave back on so that we can actually kill something.
The statement "stam + resil = pvp, damage = pve" isn't universally true. There needs to be a balance between damage and surviability in pvp, and currently the overall pvp set has that balance, in my opinion. From a caster/healer standpoint I wouldn't mind if the weapons lost dmg/heal and that was then redistributed onto the armor sets. That would be a little harder to do with melee weapons, I think. The damage in pvp needs to come from somewhere, and if the weapons are nerfed, things with more damage will be swapped in somewhere, especially since overall survivability went up as well. Suddenly gib teams are nerfed, which is in my opinion not neccessary (please remember spriest/lock is getting toned down!), or forced to get pve gear to remain effective.
Right now, arena has a good balance between teams that outlast and teams that gib, in my opinion, and 4dps is relatively rare at the top level (call me out if that's not true), which shows that survivability/healing is quite competitive. Mana burn/outlast teams do very well in the lower brackets as well, where incoming damage is further reduced. My point? No, I do not think a change from high dps to lower dps and more stam/resil is needed/wanted in pvp, generally speaking. The balance probably isn't as precarious as I made it out to be, but the idea is there.
The harm comes from needing to PvP, and with Season 3 potentially needing to PvP at a very high level, in order to have the best gear possible. Raiding is (as someone else described) a competitive team sport. Who's going to get that last raid slot - the PvPer with the awesome weapons, or the PvE-only player who's gotten unlucky with raid drops?
Because Blizzard's PvE itemization team failed to account for needed slot upgrades we're seeing a ton of PvE raiders doing Arenas in order to acquire a few specific items. Additionally, as Gurg mentioned near the beginning of the thread, the Arena weapons have smart, useful choices made as far as their itemization - better or at least equally useful choices in many cases when compared to a PvE equivalent.
Now, am I happy that my guild's rogues were able to upgrade their DPS significantly by doing Arenas? Yes actually. I just abhor the idea that the ONLY way to guarantee DPS classes get their most useful, most impactful, most "here's why you bring me to raids" upgrades is... Arena PvP. As a class which has much less innate desirability on an Arena team, I am concerned that the future of raiding could turn into 'Arena or die' simply because Blizzard is stingy with non-2H weapon drops.
DISCLAIMER: I'm on a 5v5 team with a 1799 rating this week, so this isn't a "wah I can't get on an Arena team" post.
How can you compare those two items, feral AP is not valued like normal AP.
I value it like normal AP! And since I'm familiar with AP itemization values, I used that. Feel free to run the numbers with +heal or +dmg if you'd rather, and if you come up with a different answer then someone has a new issue to argue about!
If you offload DPS stats in a way that doesn't return equal value under the current itemization system, then you are in fact making the weapon weaker than it deserves to be.
The biggest problem with trading offense for defense on PvP weapons is that most classes do not gear purely defensively. I'm not just talking about warriors and paladins here -- mages will mix spell damage among their sta gems, hunters with AP, etc. If you suddenly added a +X stamina weapon enchant (x= 81 heal in item budget), how many classes would take it? Priests and locks perhaps, and maybe more defensive minded players of other classes, but I don't feel you'd see everyone replacing their enchants. I have absolutely no idea if, given a more defensive weapon, you could come out even by replacing your defensive gems/enchants with offensive ones. I'd wear the new vashj mace over my s2 mace as is.
My favorite solution is PvE/P oriented procs. The Illidan mace proc (if it worked) is an absolutely amazing PvP bonus. Replace the mace's proc with a really good PvE one or give it 75-100 more healing and/or a chunk of mana/5 more than the S3 mace, but give the S3 mace the proc. It's a lot more fun than resilience pierce (which will do what on healing weapons?) and doesn't have to deal with scaling issues with the res cap.
I'm heavily opposed to the best PvP'er or PvE'er needing to also do very well in the other gametype. More option? Sure. Very slight advantage? Ok. What we have now with BT raiders being better PvP equipped than "pure" PvP'ers and what we will have next season with entry-SSC raiders with BT weapons? No way. Add some useful new trinkets to the arena vendor, find some way to make weapons better at their specific task, etc.
The harm comes from needing to PvP, and with Season 3 potentially needing to PvP at a very high level, in order to have the best gear possible. Raiding is (as someone else described) a competitive team sport. Who's going to get that last raid slot - the PvPer with the awesome weapons, or the PvE-only player who's gotten unlucky with raid drops?
Because Blizzard's PvE itemization team failed to account for needed slot upgrades we're seeing a ton of PvE raiders doing Arenas in order to acquire a few specific items. Additionally, as Gurg mentioned near the beginning of the thread, the Arena weapons have smart, useful choices made as far as their itemization - better or at least equally useful choices in many cases when compared to a PvE equivalent.
Now, am I happy that my guild's rogues were able to upgrade their DPS significantly by doing Arenas? Yes actually. I just abhor the idea that the ONLY way to guarantee DPS classes get their most useful, most impactful, most "here's why you bring me to raids" upgrades is... Arena PvP. As a class which has much less innate desirability on an Arena team, I am concerned that the future of raiding could turn into 'Arena or die' simply because Blizzard is stingy with non-2H weapon drops.
DISCLAIMER: I'm on a 5v5 team with a 1799 rating this week, so this isn't a "wah I can't get on an Arena team" post.
The real problem appears to be lack of pve options. Raiders don't do arena just because it's superior, because the gear isn't that much better. Raiders do arena because it's guaranteed and not subject to the RNG (which a lot of folks are saying).
Making them comparable isn't a bad thing. Make the weapons more accessible in PvE raids and the complaints will go down. It doesn't necessarily have to be a token system either; the designers specifically stated they wanted that feeling of anticipation not knowing what would be dropped. However, another remedy to this would be what they did with the salamander-type bosses in MC, or the opera event in Karazhan... a shared drop table among all of them. Put more 'desirable' items like weapons on this shared drop table, so you don't only get the chance for the Talon off Morogrim, etc. In addition, they should try to make this loot table deeper as well. It would do well for Blizzard to try to create at least *one* of each type per 'tier' of raid, so as to avoid the itemization gaps. I expect they will help fill in the gaps with Zul'Aman and such for it.
Spread out the 'good' loot more, and you'll have fewer complaints about "having" to pvp to pve.
The real problem appears to be lack of pve options. Raiders don't do arena just because it's superior, because the gear isn't that much better. Raiders do arena because it's guaranteed and not subject to the RNG (which a lot of folks are saying).
Making them comparable isn't a bad thing. Make the weapons more accessible in PvE raids and the complaints will go down. It doesn't necessarily have to be a token system either; the designers specifically stated they wanted that feeling of anticipation not knowing what would be dropped. However, another remedy to this would be what they did with the salamander-type bosses in MC, or the opera event in Karazhan... a shared drop table among all of them. Put more 'desirable' items like weapons on this shared drop table, so you don't only get the chance for the Talon off Morogrim, etc. In addition, they should try to make this loot table deeper as well. It would do well for Blizzard to try to create at least *one* of each type per 'tier' of raid, so as to avoid the itemization gaps. I expect they will help fill in the gaps with Zul'Aman and such for it.
Spread out the 'good' loot more, and you'll have fewer complaints about "having" to pvp to pve.
--S
The real problem appears to be lack of pvp options. PVPers don't raid just because it's superior, because the gear isn't that much better. PVPers raid because there is more variety and not subject to the arena point per week cap(which a lot of folks are saying).
Making them comparable isn't a bad thing. Make the non-armor/weapon slots more accessible in PvP and the complaints will go down. It doesn't necessarily have to be arena points system either; the designers specifically stated they wanted that feeling of anticipation not knowing what would be dropped. However, another remedy to this would be what they did with the old rep rewards from AV/AB/WSG... a reward for spending more time pvping. Put more 'desirable' items like trinkets/rings on this shared reward table, so you don't only get the chance for the low ilvl honor rewards, etc. In addition, they should try to make this loot table deeper as well. It would do well for Blizzard to try to create at least *one* of each type per 'tier' of pvp, so as to avoid the itemization gaps. I expect they will help fill in the gaps with S3 and such for it.
Spread out the 'good' loot more, and you'll have fewer complaints about "having" to pve to pvp.
See what I did there? Everyone is complaining about the same basic itemization problems and being forced to PVE to be good at PVP or vice versa.
The reverse is also a problem. We are a semi-casual raid guild, and we had 1 boss in SSC down when Season 2 came out...suddenly, we had access to weapons WAY WAY better then we could get out of PvE at the time. So this created the need to farm up another avenue every week to be able to raid to the best of our ability.
Our guild created 3-4 "scrub" 5v5 teams that only play 10 games a week.
The items aren't that great that they could be described as necessary. You can do the zones without them - their availability doesn't make the zones easy, but they do make it slightly easier for you to see new content. I don't see the problem. The fact that it enticed your guild into playing more arena games I see as a positive thing.
The harm comes from needing to PvP, and with Season 3 potentially needing to PvP at a very high level, in order to have the best gear possible. Raiding is (as someone else described) a competitive team sport. Who's going to get that last raid slot - the PvPer with the awesome weapons, or the PvE-only player who's gotten unlucky with raid drops?
Which is just as it should be. People willing to do more to benefit the guild = better selections for the spot. This has always been the case, this is just the newest manifestation. Before it would have been "the guy that mined enough DI ore for his whole 300 FR set" or "the guy that always buys his own flasks and never takes from the guild." People willing to go above and beyond always get the edge, thats just how it is.
Because Blizzard's PvE itemization team failed to account for needed slot upgrades we're seeing a ton of PvE raiders doing Arenas in order to acquire a few specific items. Additionally, as Gurg mentioned near the beginning of the thread, the Arena weapons have smart, useful choices made as far as their itemization - better or at least equally useful choices in many cases when compared to a PvE equivalent.
Ah, okay, so that is the real problem. The pressure, then, should be exerted on focusing on that issue, subpar itemization/inadequate upgrade paths, rather than on this symptom in particular.
Now, am I happy that my guild's rogues were able to upgrade their DPS significantly by doing Arenas? Yes actually. I just abhor the idea that the ONLY way to guarantee DPS classes get their most useful, most impactful, most "here's why you bring me to raids" upgrades is... Arena PvP. As a class which has much less innate desirability on an Arena team, I am concerned that the future of raiding could turn into 'Arena or die' simply because Blizzard is stingy with non-2H weapon drops.
Thats a bit of an exaggeration, I think. Arena drops give you a little boost up through SSC/The Eye (the midway instances.) You're gonna have to move on for BT/Hyjal/Sunwell, or risk becoming a burden. I could see a definite problem if the seasons weapons stayed good and never needed to swap out until the end, but as-is they're just nice little boosts for the first half.
Quite simply, weapons are to important. While it is often overlooked, the DPS on a weapon is basically 100% equal to just pure AP with the exception of rupture-like moves(where weapon dps isn't counted, but ap is) as long as both weapons are equal-dps. Another issue is balancing dual wield, currently the stats on both the MH and the OH are equal, and the value you get just gets cut up between the two through the dw penalty, stats wouldn't get cut but the dps loss would warrant it anyway.
So if I am in pve gear with 1700ap and two 99dps daggers, I essentially have 3185ap. If I put on my pvp setup and end up with 1400ap, it's still 2885ap. That's not that huge of a loss(the hit hurts, though!), and is certainly worth it for what you get.
I think it is an interesting idea to be able to drop 15dps from both weapons, and in turn get ~450ap(or about 150resil, 175sta) points to turn into extra resil/sta, doesn't that seem a bit excessive? All of a sudden someone in pure pve gear and those weapons would be equal to someone in pure pvp gear and pve weapons, and someone in both pvp gear and pvp weapons would be completely gimped damage-wise.
Actually, that would be neat! Force the players to mix it up to maximize their stats.
The S2 weapons coming out and helping you progress through SSC/The Eye into BT could be considered intentional to help progress guilds through PVE, just like the increased loot tables in 2.2. If gear is holding too many guilds back from progressing, the options are nerf or increase gear availability. It is in blizzards best interest to push the kara guilds into SSC and the SSC guilds into BT before they release new zones.
At least for caster DPS, the spell hit on the S2 spellblade is very attractive. As far as I know, the ONLY caster one-hander obtained from raiding that actually has any spell hit is the blade that drops from Archimonde, and for many raiders, that's totally out of reach. Spell hit is a trivial stat in PvP (almost like penetration in PvE) and is only needed in miniscule amounts at the most (in theory anyway), whereas it's a core attribute for PvE. Surely it'd make more sense for Blizzard to put PvE-centric stats on PvE weapons, then there'd be no need for people to "abuse" arenas as such just to obtain weapons. This isn't a whine post, spell hit is availible in abundance in other slots, but it makes no sense to put a stat that's HIGHLY desirable for PvE yet trivial for PvP on a PvP weapon.
Which is just as it should be. People willing to do more to benefit the guild = better selections for the spot. This has always been the case, this is just the newest manifestation. Before it would have been "the guy that mined enough DI ore for his whole 300 FR set" or "the guy that always buys his own flasks and never takes from the guild." People willing to go above and beyond always get the edge, thats just how it is.
I'm fine with above and beyond. The problem is, the two examples you listed are attainable simply by spending extra time farming, as opposed to gearing up for PvP, becoming good at PvP, and finding a team structure which allows your class to win enough games to earn a lot of points each week. The tasks are not equal.
Originally Posted by Opioid
Ah, okay, so that is the real problem. The pressure, then, should be exerted on focusing on that issue, subpar itemization/inadequate upgrade paths, rather than on this symptom in particular.
Agreed - unfortunately there's a big lack of a dev saying "we realize that we missed a bunch of itemization spots, we're fixing that with X instance which will be out on Y date". ZA might, or might not, be this instance... no way to tell, and ZA (as the sooner to be released instance) is still months away and not even on the PTR for investigation.
Originally Posted by Opioid
Thats a bit of an exaggeration, I think. Arena drops give you a little boost up through SSC/The Eye (the midway instances.) You're gonna have to move on for BT/Hyjal/Sunwell, or risk becoming a burden. I could see a definite problem if the seasons weapons stayed good and never needed to swap out until the end, but as-is they're just nice little boosts for the first half.
You're right, people will have to move on - to S3 weapons in order to tackle BT/Hyjal/Sunwell content. Guilds who want to make progress aren't going to run T5 instances endlessly hoping for weapon drops from the RNG; there's an alternative via the Arenas and I foresee that alternative being forced upon raiders. Now that isn't the end of the world; Arena can be a lot of fun, and rewarding top PvPers is great. I just dislike Blizzard appearing to decide that players must compete in both PvE and PvP to maximize their effectiveness for one or the other. The RNG and weapon rarity sounds to me like a decision, made much earlier, which has become "unquestionable" and Blizzard refuses to change it due to pure hardheadedness.
To Celandro: I'd rather see increased gear availability, as opposed to nerfs. I suspect most readers on EJ would too. What I don't understand is why Blizzard isn't making PvE weapons more attainable by PvE raiding. I don't mind at all that PvP weapons are good for PvE raiding, it's cool to have an alternative.
Overall I'd say that my biggest current issue with endgame raid design is that players are required to 'touch 'em all' - 10-mans/5-mans/25-mans/Arena. The removal of the keying process for TK:The Eye and SSC was very welcome for guilds trying to make progress in those zones, allowing for a much larger pool of potential raiders. Fights like Vashj and Kael'thas, being the gatekeeper bosses for Hyjal, are DPS races and short of an entire guild of rockstar players need the absolute best gear they can possibly acquire to win those fights and get to the reportedly great BT.
The situation is much worse for Shadow Priests and the one one-handed caster weapon available in all of BT/Hyjal. To make matters worse it drops off of Naj'entus so it's power/ilevel is no where near the higher end drops having about 20 less damage than the Archimonde sword. Couple that with the fact Shadow Priests don't even have an off-hand upgrade better than the badge reward Orb and you have the icing on the cake of flawed itemization.
I'm going to be quite unhappy when the Season 3 dagger/mace is better than the Naj'entus dagger. And, unless Tier 6 gets buffed like Tier 5 it clearly will be since the Season 2 is only about 10 damage worse.
See what I did there? Everyone is complaining about the same basic itemization problems and being forced to PVE to be good at PVP or vice versa.
While I agree with what you've stated, this isn't really on topic. The topic was about arena weapons and how they affect the PvE game.
Gurg's original topic: Arena weapons are affecting the PvE game.
Gurg's hypothesis: Change arena weapons so they increase survivability instead of damage potential, to make them less attractive to PvE players, while retaining PvPer interest.
My hypothesis: Make appropriate PvE gear more readily available, so that players don't feel that they have to pvp in order to get it.
Discussing the PvP's reliance on raid gear in various slots is a whole different discussion. I agree that it needs looking at; it sucks that there are a lot of missing slots that PvPers should be able to reliably fill without needing to raid. However, that's neither here nor there. It isn't part of the discussion in this thread.
To Celandro: I'd rather see increased gear availability, as opposed to nerfs. I suspect most readers on EJ would too. What I don't understand is why Blizzard isn't making PvE weapons more attainable by PvE raiding. I don't mind at all that PvP weapons are good for PvE raiding, it's cool to have an alternative.
And I completely agree with you (except i do think they are making PVE weapons more obtainable). More availability and options for PVE and PVP gear would be great. PVE non-token itemization has always sucked due to RNG. The biggest draw of arenas is the ability to pick what you upgrade.
The focus of this thread should be on what Blizzard can do to make PVErs not feel like they have to PVP. Focusing on the fact that a mediocre team can get a main and offhand in 10 weeks is not a big deal IF that main and offhand didnt impact overall performance so much. If BT can not be done due to SSC not dropping enough weapons or the fact that weapons are weighted too heavily in total dps then the focus should be there, not on the alternative advancement route given by arenas.
I think a lot of the complaints here are by people who are dissatisfied with the loot in SSC OR upset that their own dkp system is punishing them for not doing arenas. The first is being addressed somewhat with increased drops in 2.2. The second is not really Blizzard's concern.
A long long time ago in another game I did raid at the very highest level and I (or any other serious pvper) can tell you that the coordination and skill required to get to the top 1% in 3v3 (top 75 players) of a battlegroup let alone top 10 or #1 is just as high if not higher than that required to raid in the top guilds for the battlegroup. Don't begrudge these very good players their epics or belittle their accomplishments. They deserve their gear just as much as any of you do.
Focus on how to make PVP gear better for PVP and PVE better for PVE so we all don't feel obligated to do both.
Agreed - unfortunately there's a big lack of a dev saying "we realize that we missed a bunch of itemization spots, we're fixing that with X instance which will be out on Y date". ZA might, or might not, be this instance... no way to tell, and ZA (as the sooner to be released instance) is still months away and not even on the PTR for investigation.
Actually, they mentioned this specifically in the items & crafting and the R&D panel at Blizzcon. The new batch of heroic gear and gear from Zul'Aman is specifically targeted at shoring up holes in itemization.
SSC/Eye weapons are being buffed to match or bypass S2 in level, so that helps even things out a bit.
I wonder what they're planning to do with all the other weapons in BT/Hyjal then. Current stat allocation still leaves BT/Hyjal weapons to be generally superior to the new SSC/TK weapons but nowhere near the discrepency of armor, rings etc.
Actually, they mentioned this specifically in the items & crafting and the R&D panel at Blizzcon. The new batch of heroic gear and gear from Zul'Aman is specifically targeted at shoring up holes in itemization.
Yes, I know it was mentioned at Blizzcon. What's missing is the date of when said gear is going to become available. Seems that the best-case scenario is patch 2.3, which is probably months away and does not alleviate the right-now gear issues.
Has anyone gotten a list of new Heroic badge gear, or loot tables from ZA, to determine whether Blizzard has actually fixed these itemization holes? Because a standard response to "when will this be fixed" is "later".
Yes, I know it was mentioned at Blizzcon. What's missing is the date of when said gear is going to become available. Seems that the best-case scenario is patch 2.3, which is probably months away and does not alleviate the right-now gear issues.
Has anyone gotten a list of new Heroic badge gear, or loot tables from ZA, to determine whether Blizzard has actually fixed these itemization holes? Because a standard response to "when will this be fixed" is "later".
It was also mentioned (in the same panels) at Blizzcon as coming in patch 2.3, along with them putting heroic badges in Karazhan and Zul'Aman. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to find transcripts somewhere; I am going from memory since I actually attended those panels. There's no new list of gear yet, because it's not in this patch. It's coming in 2.3, alongside Zul'Aman.
The big problem is that the arena system is so open to abuse, and frankly unbalanced. Such a system being the only alternative to raiding to get high level epics is bad enough, let alone the fact that the are often better itemised and have a much greater coverage.
If the pvp stuff can be that good, I see no real reason why they couldn't make as wide a range of rep or crafted rewards that match them, and would be far more realistic at modelling the skill+time investment than either the current raid drop model, or the arena system.
Why are PvP weapons roughly as powerful in terms of pure offense as their PvE equivalents, given comparable item levels?
<snip>
It's because of a simple decision made by Blizzard regarding how they itemized their weapons.
I think the biggest mistake here is to see "Blizzard" as one entity.
The MMO Gamer: First of all, for those of our readers who may be unfamiliar, tell us a little bit about yourself, and what it is you do for Blizzard.
Jeffrey Kaplan: Of course. My name is Jeffrey Kaplan, I’m a lead game designer on World of Warcraft. We have two lead game designers on World of Warcraft, one is Tom Chilton, the other is myself. I’m responsible for the world side of game design for World of Warcraft, that includes things like quests, dungeons, raids, and everything that goes along with those things, and then Tom handles things such as PvP, game systems, and class balance.
As you see, there is one of the two game designers responsable for raiding, and one for pvp. I would assume that both designers work in their own team. I bet that the cooperation inside a team is a lot stronger than between teams. That's how it works in larger companies.
So we have a raiding team, and we have a pvp team. Who do you think decides on the itemization of gear ?
I bet that each team does their own itemization.
As a result, I'm not surprised to see that all raiding gear is reasonably balanced amongst itself. And that pvp gear is reasonably balanced amongst itself. But the balance between raiding gear and pvp gear is something else. That can only be balanced if the two teams are working together perfectly. And as we all know, inside any company, two teams will never work together perfectly.
Besides this factor of miscommunication, there might also be another factor. The factor of competion between two teams. I bet that Tom Chilton's team will be very excited if they see a large increase in people doing pvp. They can go to their bosses, and say "look ! our customers enjoy the content we just made for them". Do you think the pvp team will want to make their gear useless for raiders ? Nope, they will be cutting into the perceived popularity of their own content. They are not gonna do that.
Why is T5 gear being buffed now ? And why is arena gear not being nerfed ? I think a large reason is that Blizzard realizes that nerfs on X are gonna get much more resistance from their customers than buffs on Y. But another factor might be that Kaplan's team has the power to buff pve gear, but not the power to nerf pvp gear. Pvp is outside their jurisdiction.
I think this might be not far from the truth because of something I saw in another game. I've played Vanguard for 2 months earlier this year. One of the (many) problems was the balance between crafted gear, and gear you could get from adventuring. Basically crafted gear was a lot better. A lot. Adventurers would put all their money into crafted gear. Adventurers were poor, and could not afford anything besides some gear upgrades now and then. Crafters got rich fast. They could afford anything they wanted. They were not depending on adventuring. (Except that they needed them as customers).
I was an adventurer-only. Not fun. No quest reward was any good. No dropped items were any good. There was no feel of accomplishement when I bought something from the AH.
Then it turns out that the whole crafting sphere of Vanguard was done by a different team. And there was little cooperation between the team that did crafting and the team that built the world, made all quests, and did all adventuring. The crafting team wanted to make sure that crafting was "meaningfull". As a side effect, they messed up adventuring. They also insisted that crafted gear would not be soulbound after wearing. That way their crafted gear would have more value.
No communication between two design teams inside the same game.
Could this be the case in WoW too ?
08/28/07, 6:56 PM
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