I think they still need to do something in terms of awarding some base mana regeneration to all mana-using classes, preferably based on INT, because the zero-regen thing that most mana-using non-healers having going for them is really pretty atrocious.
Not to mention Paladins! In a mana burn match we get owned pretty bad, whereas a Priest or Druid has a fair chance at regaining quite a bit of mana.
For people who play half assed in teams with friends and only play one competativly, then you will most likely get screwed abit
This is definitely a concern for many players with that mindset. I only really play 3v3 as a semi-competitive setup (slowly aiming for 2000, 1820 at the moment if my memory serves me well), and removing the chance to play 5v5 (for example, I used to play a 4 ele shaman/1 sp setup in 5v5 just for amusement) or 2v2 with friends - for fear of ruining my personal rating - seems a shame indeed. A lot of the 'poorer' fun teams will just be unable to play given this change, meaning of the high ratings necessary for s3 gear upgrades will be harder to attain. Especially so in smaller battlegroups. I'm not about to start wailing about the "Sky Falling", but it's a frustrating proposal for players in my position all the same.
Regarding changes to Meditation and PS at 41-point Discipline - Meditation is definitely a huge buff, nobody can deny the change to regeneration (and rebalancing of spi vs. mp5 for holy priests) will be quite a substantial change and has been long overdue. As a shadowpriest, considering the change to Mana Spring & the new 30% Meditation it will be a significant buff conducive to aggressive casting. Adding an additional ~30mp/5 via Meditation from raidbuffed spirit is equivalent to roughly +220dmg were you to get that regeneration via VT - it's a welcome change.
PS at 41-point Disc seems more of a gimmick to me, and while nobody is denying that a mini-shieldwall on a short cooldown is invaluable for raids, I can't see large numbers of priests converting from holy to disc raid healing builds due to the loss of crucial holy talents. Looking at some of the mid-tier Disc talents (+10% mana anyone?) will ultimately be the way to make Disc more attractive as a raid spec, and while raiding guilds may take the odd Disc priest for spike-heavy encounters, as a raid healing spec it just has too much 'chaff' mixed in with the rather spread-thin 'wheat' to be considered anywhere near as robust as holy/disc.
Pain Suppression (Discipline Talent) is now usable on friendly targets, instantly reduces the target's threat by 5%, reduces damage taken by 40% and its cooldown has been reduced to 2 minutes.
Worded that way it appears to be a bit more clear that it's reducing total threat accumulated to that point by 5% as opposed to 5% less threat generation for the duration of the buff. Implemented that way it's still something that can be used as an 'oh shit' button, or at times when you know the tank will be taking a spike in damage, but not something you'd want to use on the tank on every cooldown seeing as how it would screw over threat-capped DPS classes.
Originally Posted by Rockstar1
This is definitely a concern for many players with that mindset. I only really play 3v3 as a semi-competitive setup
According to the link in songster's post, there will be seperate personal ratings for each team, so I would assume that it would work in the same manner as arena points where only the team that would give you the highest amount of points counts.
Last edited by Sarutobi : 09/27/07 at 12:12 PM.
Reason: clarification
Originally Posted by DeeNogger
Every time I bite into an oatmeal raisin cookie mistaken for a chocolate-chip an angle loses its wings. Fucking trani's of the cookie world!
Worded that way it appears to be a bit more clear that it's reducing total threat accumulated to that point by 5% as opposed to 5% less threat generation for the duration of the buff. Implemented that way it's still something that can be used as an 'oh shit' button, or at times when you know the tank will be taking a spike in damage, but not something you'd want to use on the tank on every cooldown seeing as how it would screw over threat-capped DPS classes.
A small threat adjustment like this would be awful nice for BoP!
On a side note, does anyone think this patch will be in testing for a few months (either on PTR or on live;) ? Maybe there are no significant code changes like the new sound system or voice chat, but there's a new dungeon and the amount of small changes is staggering.
The point with the rating requirement is as Sillia says: If there is no chance of progression then people quit. Elitist things don't pay the cost of the game so you have to keep the average player happy. And those average players play less than 10 hours a week. If you turn this into a game rewarding excellence too much, then you close the door for 90 to 95% of the players.
WoW is much more something social than a sports game with competition. Do you think that even 1% of the battleground actually knows who is the top arena team ? I don't think so. The reward for excellence should be there but the difference shouldn't be to big. Weapon rating requirements will increase the separation between teams over and under 1850.
For many WoW is easy entertainement not some ProAm stuff, that consumes endless hours. Ignoring this fact would hurt the game way more than badly balanced classes, poor itemisation or unbeatable bosses. If too many people quit with this change you can except it to be taken back in no time.
Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde
Don't expect any non-ret buffs for a long time Deris.
Hey its nice to dream isn't it? Every patch has other healers getting buffs, and Paladins only get nerfs (minus the blessing change, which is so nice I uninstalled PallyPower)
However this is just speculation not a given fact about how it could work.
Aye. The only quote we have is that it will work exactly the same as the team rating. From this it sounds to me as though you will have three separate player ratings - 2v2, 3v3 and 5v5.
However, take someone who is on a team that wins 7 and loses 3. If they are in all 10 games, their personal rating is the same as the team rating. If they are only in 3 of the games and lose them all, then their personal rating will go down even though their team rating goes up.
That means no smurfing - yes, you can get people in to boost your team's rating, but your personal rating won't go up unless you personally participate in the winning games. It also means no team buying. If your personal rating is 1300 and you buy a 2200 team, your personal rating will stay at 1300, and will even go down further once you start fighting (and losing) in the new bracket.
And the point of stealth/shadowmeld becomes......?
You realize that you can't target someone if they're more than a few feet away when they are stealthed, right? Inferring team composition based on the auras that someone has up is not really an advantage since most high-rank teams already know the matchups that they will be facing after their first fight against that team.
Originally Posted by CheshireCat
Eh, my nostalgia goggles aren't as good as they used to be.
Worded that way it appears to be a bit more clear that it's reducing total threat accumulated to that point by 5% as opposed to 5% less threat generation for the duration of the buff. Implemented that way it's still something that can be used as an 'oh shit' button, or at times when you know the tank will be taking a spike in damage, but not something you'd want to use on the tank on every cooldown seeing as how it would screw over threat-capped DPS classes.
Actually an ability like this is also tremendously useful for tank swapping in a fight like Gluth or Huhu (particularly "mortal wound" fights where the boss isn't tauntable). It saves you a half hour wall and can help reset the stacking debuffs in addition to facilitating a tank swap. I expect to see discipline priests as a requirement for a couple fights down the road.
I really like the devastate change. It frees up a spot on my action bar and should help my solo dps quite a bit.
You realize that you can't target someone if they're more than a few feet away when they are stealthed, right?
Well I think he means you can't shadowmeld / steath to hide what your team consists of:
Shadowmelded priest + warrior. Check out the warriors buffs, he's got fort, you know theres a priest hiding somewhere. It doesn't help you FIND the people hiding, but you know that they are there and what class they are, or aren't.
[E] Dam you moogle for editing your post!
Originally Posted by Sebudai
Addons aren't a crutch, they're tools to be abused by skilled players to increase performance. Like a carpenter using a hammer, a fisherman using a lure, or Xi using curse words.
In a PvE context, I like the Detect Magic change, but I really don't like it for PvP. A large part of PvP is not knowing the buffs the other person has - Shamans Purge blindly in PvP at the moment, next patch it will be laughably precise.
It just takes an element of the strategy and completely does away with it - I don't think that can ever be considered a good thing (reducing complexity is generally a bad idea to me).
Ogri'la Faction Vendor: This vendor now sells potions useable anywhere for a large number of Apexis Shards. 50 shards, as good as super mana/heal pots.
! I was just going to start thrasing them as I have like 6000 stored on my bank + 20 stacks of flasks. I wish the pots were super ones, and not "equal to super" so I could use injectors with them :S
Or at least let's hope they make them tradeable so I can supply my guild healers with a hundred mana pots :p
What the hell am I going to use to mark sheep with now dammit! Bah, back to silly raid icons I suppose.
Hmm, I will miss my swirly ball though and expect great threads to come from it's removal.
It must be a conspiracy against swirly balls, first detect traps and now detect magic, it makes you wonder what these innocent creatures have done to deserve the drive to extinction that Blizz is imposing on them.
What the hell am I going to use to mark sheep with now dammit! Bah, back to silly raid icons I suppose.
Hmm, I will miss my swirly ball though and expect great threads to come from it's removal.
My rogue still hasn't got over it.
Anyway, I think that the healing-to-spelldamage ratio can unbalance combat healers in arenas. In my usual holy-healing setup I'd have around 600 spelldamage (which isn't that far from the 800ish I have in my shockadin gear). I can probably beat warriors/rogues that don't severely outgear me with that, while still retaining all my healing power (and if you check my arena ratings you'll see that I suck at pvp)
In a PvE context, I like the Detect Magic change, but I really don't like it for PvP. A large part of PvP is not knowing the buffs the other person has - Shamans Purge blindly in PvP at the moment, next patch it will be laughably precise.
Ehm, snape, you do know about the combat log spouting off "playerXYZ gains Power Word: Fortitude" etc, right? All you need is an addon that matches the gaining/loosing message up with the player name and "emulating" the buffs and you've got essentially the same thing (OK, for people getting buffs prior to you being within 200 yards there is a difference, but in Arena PvP I'd "risk" the cooldown on a Purge).
I hope it was more of a PvE convenience thing that sort of just bled over to PvP, though, but then I'm a carebear at heart.
What the hell am I going to use to mark sheep with now dammit! Bah, back to silly raid icons I suppose.
Hmm, I will miss my swirly ball though and expect great threads to come from it's removal.
This is the real "nerf" imho, currently Paladins can only remove one debuff at a time, using this they could only remove detect magic if they were unlucky and if the mage had time on his hands he could reapply detect magic if that was dispelled and so keep said target sheeped alot longer. This is no longer possible for mages (thank god for rank 1 ff & rank 1 moonfire )
At this point, I really want the patch notes. It was fun for the first few posts to see information on 2.3, but now everything is so spread out and then recompiled in various locations that it's difficult to find out exactly what's going on
I am excited about the daily quests for dungeons, arenas, and heroics. I just hope they give out enough gold to entice guild members into running them. I like dungeons a lot more than flying around on a mount and bombing random stuff.
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Daily quests have been added targeting a random battleground for that day. Look for Alliance Brigadier Generals and Horde Warbringers near your faction's battlemasters in all major capitals. The battleground daily quests will reward gold, experience, and honor. You’ll be able to begin these as soon as you’re able to enter the battlegrounds themselves. So if it’s a WSG day, and you’re level 11, you can take the quest.
New daily dungeon quests found in lower city for both the heroic and non-heroic five person dungeons. These are one random regular dungeon AND one heroic dungeon per day. The non-heroic dungeons these will be available for are Shattered Halls, Steamvault, Shadow Labyrinth, Black Morass, Botanica, Mechanar, Arcatraz. All heroic dungeons have an associated daily quest. If a non-heroic and heroic happen to fall on the same dungeon in a single day, one heroic run will allow completion of both quests. The non-heroic quests will reward an ethereum prison key, gold and Consortium faction. The heroic quests will reward 2 Badges of Justice, gold and Consortium faction.
For raids when I'm at 600 spirit the intensity change will net me around 50 mana per 5 while casting if my math doesn't suck. That's a pretty big deal.
In light of this, they had better not change innervate to be a % of mana. I like being able to get 8000 mana from an innervate. Even more fun is casting it on a priest who has the earring trinket and giving them 12,000 mana.
Also the healing into spelldamage is pretty crazy.
I could spec full balance and have about 700 spell damage and 2000 healing, along with massive regeneration. Those numbers are in my pve gear and would come down a lot to switch to pvp gear if I wanted resilience, but that'd be pretty fun in 2s arena. Cyclone spam their paladin while dropping starfires and treants on their dps while maintaining a 150+ a tick lifebloom would be sweet.
At this point, I really want the patch notes. It was fun for the first few posts to see information on 2.3, but now everything is so spread out and then recompiled in various locations that it's difficult to find out exactly what's going on
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09/27/07, 11:48 AM
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