Why not? I'm not cutting edge. I'm not the best, nor do I pretend to be. I earn my way there slowly. If I and my team were more serious about it, I'd do better and get my gear faster. But we don't, so we get them slower.
There's a big difference between getting items slowly and not getting items at all. If they decide that because I'm not cutting edge, I don't deserve anything... that's fine. I'll just stop playing. The problem is that a lot of folks will end up making the same decision.
Except PvE requires a much bigger commitment and much more time to get those epics. In your situation, you can play 10 games a week, win 5, lose 5, and still get really good epics.
And the difference is that the bigger commitment also yields bigger rewards. At ~450 points per week, it took me 3 months to earn the points for the pieces I have. In 3 months of raiding, I've obtained far more gear overall than just 3 pieces.
It doesn't change this fact: If Blizzard removes the rewards, people will stop playing.
The whole point of a MMO is gear or character progression, but when that comes for free, whats the point? Most of the fun comes from the journey to get there, the obstacles you have to overcome, etc. At least the way thats the way I see it. And its only two items.
EDIT: and I don't agree that every item should have these requirements.
It doesn't come for free. I had to play for 3 months of real time in order to get what items I've obtained so far. You might not think 3 months is a big deal, but I do. I get my gear, and I pvp and pve better because of it. The journey was fun, but the reward is still part of it.
Why not? I'm not cutting edge. I'm not the best, nor do I pretend to be. I earn my way there slowly. If I and my team were more serious about it, I'd do better and get my gear faster. But we don't, so we get them slower.
Thats why you're only restricted from getting the shoulders and weapon. The weapon is a huge deal in pvp especially for certain classes, so its logical that you have to be good to a certain extent to get them. For example, you can't play 5 hours a week and expect to get a weapon from mount hyjal, so why expect to get a weapon from PVP that's equally as good? The shoulders thing, like blizzard said, is mostly visual and does not prevent you from getting 4 peice bonuses are are very minor stat upgrades. Remember that in 2.3, you can even get epic pvp gear from honor, so its not like casuals are completely getting screwed. Getting 2k rating for the shoulders gets you a couple stat points and a nice graphic. Thats it.
say what? I've been hunting high and low (pardon the pun) for any information on Hunter changes. The only thing with backing that I have found so far is stings and traps scaling with ranged attack power.
Arcane shot now dispels one magic effect from the target as well, which is a very nice change imho.
say what? I've been hunting high and low (pardon the pun) for any information on Hunter changes. The only thing with backing that I have found so far is stings and traps scaling with ranged attack power.
Uh, it's the next two blue posts in that exact same thread. Just click the "next blue post" button. Not hard.
Thats why you're only restricted from getting the shoulders and weapon. The weapon is a huge deal in pvp especially for certain classes, so its logical that you have to be good to a certain extent to get them. For example, you can't play 5 hours a week and expect to get a weapon from mount hyjal, so why expect to get a weapon from PVP that's equally as good?
For a sufficiently geared raid, yes you can. Gurgthock's gone on record saying he only raids about 7 hours a week now :P
The shoulders thing, like blizzard said, is mostly visual and does not prevent you from getting 4 peice bonuses are are very minor stat upgrades. Remember that in 2.3, you can even get epic pvp gear from honor, so its not like casuals are completely getting screwed. Getting 2k rating for the shoulders gets you a couple stat points and a nice graphic. Thats it.
I never once said that they are going to do more than limit it to two pieces. I have only been saying two things:
#1. The proposed system penalizes certain battlegroups. A more reasonable solution would be to give the top X% of ratings the opportunity to get the items.
#2. Applying the rating requirement to all arena items would excessively penalize many players, and thus likely cause many players to stop playing in the Arena.
Base casting time on Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning being reduced is quite an ironic way to nerf ele shaman. I'm sure many people reading the patch notes probably think it's a buff
We'll need to see if there's anything more in the pipeline. Currently there's an increase in sustainability (which is not the problem anyway), lightning overload changes are roughly a 5% increase to total damage (and a slight improvement in threat), but losing 17% of our spell damage co-efficient on lightning bolt is definitely more than a 5% total loss, so as it stands this is a nerf for ele shaman at the same time most dps specs seem to be being tuned up a bit. Perhaps we can hold a pity party with the shadow priests.
It will be interesting to see if there's any healing items (particularly trinkets) which would end up as dps upgrades to lower tier DPS items under the new system.
For a sufficiently geared raid, yes you can. Gurgthock's gone on record saying he only raids about 7 hours a week now :P
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That's not including the time required to get to that point, your being disingenuous.
pvp to advance my character, and to have fun with friends. It is a means to an end. If they removed loot from raiding, do you think that people would continue to raid for the experience and fun? I think that some would, but many would not. It is similar with pvp. The joy of increasing your rating, and improving play is an incentive, to be sure. However, for most people, it is insufficient incentive.
There is no incentive for losing in PvE, none, there is, a stick, however.
That's what people are saying, raiding does not reward failure, at all, especially at the higher level, so, why should higher level arena rewards reward failure?
(We should probably discuss this in gurg's arena thread, though).
The one problem I see with the individual ratings is for people who have serious teams in one bracket, but play with less serious/skilled friends in other brackets. Wouldn't the lower rated team drag their individual rating down, possibly stopping them from buying weapons/shoulders?
Base casting time on Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning being reduced is quite an ironic way to nerf ele shaman. I'm sure many people reading the patch notes probably think it's a buff
Currently there's an increase in sustainability (which is not the problem anyway)
I would guess that many ele shaman do not have as much +damage as you, so reducing the base cast time is a dps buff to them, plus it is helpful to Resto and Enh Shaman.
Sustainability is a an issue to lower geared Shaman, especially ones that do not like to use Mana potions.
While the 2.3 change means it sucks to be a Dwarf, you still have your "overpowered" racial until 2.3 hits.
The incoming changes to Priest racials just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I thought the entire point of spreading Fear Ward around was so that racials would be less of a factor than today's "Being a Night Elf impacts your PvP performance so much that it might be worth it to just reroll a Dwarf and regear from the basement".
Not only are Dwarves* still retaining Desperate Prayer, but now that Fear Ward is finally getting spread around, it's getting nerfed quite heavily. I'm not sure this is going to help the situation at all.
*Stoneform is also a factor, but then that's not limited to Priests, and will definitely be impacted by Blind no longer being a poison.
The new ability deals holy damage, so one can only assume that it can't be used in Shadowform. Combine this with the fear ward nerf and the blind change, and I'm starting to regret my decision not to reroll Draenei (which is now indisputably the best race for both shadow and holy in both pvp and pve).
Base casting time on Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning being reduced is quite an ironic way to nerf ele shaman. I'm sure many people reading the patch notes probably think it's a buff
We'll need to see if there's anything more in the pipeline. Currently there's an increase in sustainability (which is not the problem anyway), lightning overload changes are roughly a 5% increase to total damage (and a slight improvement in threat), but losing 17% of our spell damage co-efficient on lightning bolt is definitely more than a 5% total loss, so as it stands this is a nerf for ele shaman at the same time most dps specs seem to be being tuned up a bit. Perhaps we can hold a pity party with the shadow priests.
It will be interesting to see if there's any healing items (particularly trinkets) which would end up as dps upgrades to lower tier DPS items under the new system.
They do. There are a depressing number of people in Shaman forums telling the people with the math to calm down because "The casting time after talents isn't changing so our coefficient won't change at all!"
I was so happy seeing the LO change but... man... after running the math it seems like I'll be looking at a 5% overall dps nerf next patch after everything comes together. Hopefully they rethink things... maybe add some +coefficient in at high levels of the elemental tree.
I'm not thrilled about the warrior changes, even the devastate change.
Here's why: I run what i consider to be the 'highest tps' spec, 11/5/45. 3/3 Improved HS, no improved SA, 3/3 Focused rage. There are so many talents in the protection tree that are more-or-less needed (toughness, shield spec, anticipation, shield mastery, vitality, focused rage, 1h spec, defiance), that it will be very difficult to make an 11/5/45 build that's cogent now that SA will be added to the list of required talents. It will be a "choose from tactical mastery, improved defensive stance, and sunder armor! You can't have them all!"
Basically what i'm saying is that this just fills the tree with too many 'needed' talents to be fully effective, and so many of the talents are just underwhelming. Take shield specialization: i would have LOVED to see that reduced to 2 or 3 points instead of 5.
The change to tactical mastery (improved threat for mortal strike and bloodthirst) sounds great. It's a brilliant idea, EXCEPT: What serious dps warrior has tactical mastery?!
If you 2h, you go 33/28 or like 20/41, or (if you're a fool) 31/30.
If you DW, you're 17/44.
The ONLY spec this really helps is for pvp warriors with a 33/25/3, and i'm not exactly going to be dps'ing in a raid with that (no flurry at all, no blood frenzy).
The 'increased threat in defensive stance' should have been part of another talent in Arms or Fury tree, in my opinion. This simply is not going to help any serious dps warriors offtank. It's a good idea, but should have been usable by more reasonable specs.
At least my devastate dps will moderately increase, though it pretty much forces whirlwind out of my prot dps rotation, (thrice the rage, a third more damage).
The change to weapon mastery IS a pretty big nerf though. I'm not looking forward to having to put a f*(cking weapon chain on my soon-to-be-crafted stormherald.
I'm all for having devasate apply sunder armor, but i don't like having to spec improved sunder armor for it...even if it is an improvement.
They do. There are a depressing number of people in Shaman forums telling the people with the math to calm down because "The casting time after talents isn't changing so our coefficient won't change at all!"
I was so happy seeing the LO change but... man... after running the math it seems like I'll be looking at a 5% overall dps nerf next patch after everything comes together. Hopefully they rethink things... maybe add some +coefficient in at high levels of the elemental tree.
It's rediculous that they took the damage tax away from mages and gave (a harsher) one to shaman.
What, do they not learn from their mistakes at all?!
And ...poor arcane mages. Already require 2-piece T5 to compete. Now arcane will be completely inferior to fire.
I
Here's why: I run what i consider to be the 'highest tps' spec, 11/5/45. 3/3 Improved HS, no improved SA, 3/3 Focused rage. There are so many talents in the protection tree that are more-or-less needed (toughness, shield spec, anticipation, shield mastery, vitality, focused rage, 1h spec, defiance), that it will be very difficult to make an 11/5/45 build that's cogent now that SA will be added to the list of required talents. It will be a "choose from tactical mastery, improved defensive stance, and sunder armor! You can't have them all!"
Or you could drop improved thunderclap, which is garbage for threat, and in any fight where threat is an issue should always be done by the offtank or dps warrior. I only thunderclap on fights with no second prot warrior nearby and that's only because our dps warrior hates losing rage. If threat is a concern make the fury warrior who's most likely to pull aggro spec imp tclap and lower his threat by switching to use it, or if you have a MS warrior, have him pick it up and swap, he won't lose that much most likely.
Personally I need to find one more point for imp sunder after patch, and 1 point shouldn't be too hard, and I might not even bother.
Or you could drop improved thunderclap, which is garbage for threat, and in any fight where threat is an issue should always be done by the offtank or dps warrior. I only thunderclap on fights with no second prot warrior nearby and that's only because our dps warrior hates losing rage. If threat is a concern make the fury warrior who's most likely to pull aggro spec imp tclap and lower his threat by switching to use it, or if you have a MS warrior, have him pick it up and swap, he won't lose that much most likely.
Personally I need to find one more point for imp sunder after patch, and 1 point shouldn't be too hard, and I might not even bother.
I'm typically the prot warrior dps'ing on a boss that has to keep thunderclap up.
And thunderclap is very valuable in multi-mob tanking. For example, I tank two of Hydross' adds. Thunderclap makes it very easy.
Likely i'll pull points out of tactical mastery, but I won't enjoy doing so.
It's rediculous that they took the damage tax away from mages and gave (a harsher) one to shaman.
What, do they not learn from their mistakes at all?!
And ...poor arcane mages. Already require 2-piece T5 to compete. Now arcane will be completely inferior to fire.
Nah the new arcane end game dps is AM spam. With some spell haste and most importantly the new change to how AM procs the Mystical Skyfire Diamond metagem, arcane will be competitive still dps wise.
I am very much looking forward to what other changes they have in store class balance wise. Meanwhile 2.2 has left a very bad taste in my mouth as far as raid content unannounced changes.
The 'increased threat in defensive stance' should have been part of another talent in Arms or Fury tree, in my opinion. This simply is not going to help any serious dps warriors offtank. It's a good idea, but should have been usable by more reasonable specs.
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It sounds as though it is a good idea, but it seems pretty narrow viability to me. The main problems in 5-mans or off-tanking as a non-prot warrior (from what I've seen with my alt) are:
a) getting the threat up quickly
b) having enough rage
MS and BT both need quite a whack of rage to use. So they won't help with a) and they'll have to generate a huge amount of threat in defensive to make up for b). ie. compared to grabbing a shield, blocking, and spamming revenge and sunder -- neither of which rely on having high AP for their threat.
The change to tactical mastery (improved threat for mortal strike and bloodthirst) sounds great. It's a brilliant idea, EXCEPT: What serious dps warrior has tactical mastery?!
I think this change is aimed at Warriors who are willing to sacrifice maximum DPS potential for the chance at being able to tank some 5 mans for guildies on off days, or as you said ...
The ONLY spec this really helps is for pvp warriors with a 33/25/3, and i'm not exactly going to be dps'ing in a raid with that (no flurry at all, no blood frenzy).
... I'm sure our MS Warrior would love being able to tank some instances for us without having to blow 50 gold after we do our 10 games for the week.
Base casting time on Lightning Bolt and Chain Lightning being reduced is quite an ironic way to nerf ele shaman. I'm sure many people reading the patch notes probably think it's a buff
We'll need to see if there's anything more in the pipeline. Currently there's an increase in sustainability (which is not the problem anyway), lightning overload changes are roughly a 5% increase to total damage (and a slight improvement in threat), but losing 17% of our spell damage co-efficient on lightning bolt is definitely more than a 5% total loss, so as it stands this is a nerf for ele shaman at the same time most dps specs seem to be being tuned up a bit. Perhaps we can hold a pity party with the shadow priests.
It will be interesting to see if there's any healing items (particularly trinkets) which would end up as dps upgrades to lower tier DPS items under the new system.
Perhaps the boost to Lightning Capictor procs will help? It's a shame, but I can't say it's a surprise considering how fast Ele Shaman scale. They may still need a buff or two though (I assume their damage isn't obscene just yet).
I would guess that many ele shaman do not have as much +damage as you, so reducing the base cast time is a dps buff to them, plus it is helpful to Resto and Enh Shaman.
Do you understand the math behind this at all? It is a net nerf, no matter WHAT your spell damage is.
Full prot warriors are already the de-facto main tank class of the game. We don't really have anyone else against whom we currently compare unfavorably to and we don't really need to be stronger at tanking in any given fight since we're most people's first choice in the majority of them already. Suddenly getting a free action bar slot and the option to speck for extra rage in addition to this and for no particular reason isn't exactly reason for us to complain, I'd say. On the same note, off-tank specks like 0/44/17 (which, yes, may not be very useful raiders but can be handy enough for generalist alts, casual play and the like) getting buffed isn't really bad for anyone either, situational or not. Let's not look our gift horse in the mouth.
So they took the main OP racial from 2 races nerfed it to hell and then gave those same 2 races a Racial ability that is possibly even more OP in Pvp? Hell that exact same nuke w/out the incapacitate is possibly about in-line w/ most the other priest racials in the game.
I would guess that many ele shaman do not have as much +damage as you, so reducing the base cast time is a dps buff to them,
No, see, they reduced the base cast time but then decreased the benefit from lightning mastery, so all ele shaman still have 2 second lightning bolts. The only effect of that change is to reduce the DPS of ALL elemental shaman (however much +damage they have) and to reduce the base cast time of lightning bolt by0.5 seconds for resto and enh shaman who feel a need to throw lightning bolts.
09/26/07, 9:52 PM
There are a depressing number of people in Shaman forums telling the people with the math to calm down because "The casting time after talents isn't changing so our coefficient won't change at all!"
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