Junpei

Where are you tanking the members for this to be possible? Generally for us if you are looking at the dias from the doorway we tank Veras far off to the left, Zerevor to the left but up on the dias, Malande is off to the right end of the dias and Garthor is way off to the right at the bottom of the ramp up. It seems a heck of a distance for a warlock to run to try and dot everything up.

 

vorda

Unless you run with 3 shadow priests or so, to me this seems to be a poor use of a spriest slot. How much do your flashes hit for in tank gear? (considering you swap a healing mace/shield in)
I'm not saying its useless, but the healers will have to manage without your healing when you are tanking anyway and your healer has all his focus to heal the poisoned target.

If everyone who has a good use of it (including hunters, locks, mages, healers) already has a spriest, it makes sense of course.

 

Yenadar

Initially, we put Veras out to the far left and Zerevor to the middle-left on the dias, but we found that during vanishes, running back to the raid to heal (me + my healer) involved too much time lost just from movement. A good balance I have found is tanking Veras almost immediately to the left of the door. It puts me in range of most of the raid for healing, my healer in range of all of the raid, and Veras definately in range of the locks. Zerevor also ends up nearly center on the dias, with Malande mid-right dais and Garthor walking back and forth from the far right to the door and back.


We actually have 4 shadow priests (3 occasionally). They all pump out really high DPS, and enable the raid to run healer-light, with a feral druid and myself always ready to start healing at a moments notice. Generally our tanking group doesn't get one, so I swap out of the tanking group and a hunter or our enhancement shammy (depending on who is in) is in that group instead. My group also generally has at least 1 Dranei as well, so the +1% to spell hit (caster group) helps mitigate bad misses.

Yes, my heals don't hit for much, 1k FoLs. However, the raid is always getting the flamestrikes, consecrates, etc... but when I am not tanking, they are also getting the poisons. So the raid healing is boosted when the raid damage is increased. Even 1-2 FoLs for 1k can keep someone up when they otherwise might not, (just like tossing everyone a healthstone or pot without a CD timer), until a big-healer can get to them. It works well.

I am never trying to top someone off, or heal them to 100% from 5%... but if they are taking poison damage, and would take 500 more damage than they have health, then my 1k FoL saved them, which is all I am trying to accomplish.

 

Papajan

I realize it's an easy-ish boss, but I figured I'd play around with council a little. The first thing is that I noticed Zerevor never got BoP when I tanked him a couple weeks ago, so I tried putting a hunter on Zerevor last night, and that drew the BoP onto Zerevor a lot, allowing for a lot more interrupts on Malande and reducing the frequency of seeing a BoP Veras. Part of me thinks that the idea is like the old Shahraz where the target taking the most magical damage (aside from Gath) gets BoSW and the target taking the most physical gets BoP. I couldn't think of an adequate test for that, but also I found it odd that Malande got BoSW a lot with so little magical damage on her (most was on Gath or Zerevor). Also, I'm wondering whether Gath's auras work in a similar way, cause this week it seemed that he used Devo more than the resistance one, but also I think we had more physical damage on him.

Anyway, food for thought, maybe it'll speed up farm kills a little bit.

 

Denogran

On our kill last week, I had the rogue BoP'd three times right as he popped out from vanish. We basically ignore him (I tank him way over at the base of the left ramp), and I certainly am not physically dpsing him more than any of the other bosses (save the mage). We've had other successful attempts doing the same exact thing where he'd not be BoP'd at all, so I think it's somewhat random.

 

vorda

I didn't say what you did doesn't help, I merely wondered if it was worth a shadowpriest spot in a more 'traditional' raid setup. But since you are so heavy on shadowpriests (we used to farm BT with 3-4 as well, going back to 2 in SW now), no one seems to be missing out on one.

 

Ambika

where do you guys tank the paladin? I've been putting him to the right of the door as I come in and moving left to right going toward the door and then away from the door. At max we've got them to 50% and last night I tried a full dodge set and that worked sorta well. Mostly y'all put 3 healers on the paladin tank? We've been using 2 paladins but at best I'm sucking wind at 50% health for 4-7seconds and then I'm dead from his 6-8k hits, not crushes. I tried a full block set and that didn't work as well as the dodge set.

What set do you use for tanking the paladin if any and where do you position him? Further 3 healers or 2 and what type?

thanks!

 

Bula

1 druid and 1 paladin is more then sufficient to keep up a properly geared tank.

The paladin himself cannot crush so if you are getting continual problems perhaps move to a feral tank on the paladin?

Ferals get additional resistance to AOE effects in addition to being optimal for tanking mobs that cannot crush.

Just a thought however, as my guild uses a protection warrior to tank him each time with no issues in the same location that I believe you are describing.

Regardless, I would highly recommend putting at least 1 druid healer onto the MT as 2 paladins will have to move frequently and it will be difficult for them to keep you topped off at all times due to this.

 

• Chicken

Considering the fact that you can (and should!) Spell Reflect the Judgement of Command Gathios does, I don't think advising to put a Druid on it instead is a good idea.

We personally typically put three healers on the Paladin, one of which is instructed to only heal the Paladin tank no matter what, while the other two will typically throw around some other heals as well, though the Paladin tank is still their first priority.

It's also important to drill into the heads of any healers in this encounter that they should avoid standing near other healers, not only is spreading out good in regards to reducing the damage any of the AoEs will deal, it also means you won't have three healers all needing to move at the same time all of a sudden.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Bula

/shrug I'm not the first person to say that even in this thread. Resisting AOE and significantly less melee damage taken from the paladin would more then offset the lack of spell reflection.

It's irrelevant anyway, as I said simply put a druid healer full time on the MT and/or get healers that are more attentive to surroundings (highly recommend this regardless).

 

• Joanna

Hi folks, we had our first tries on council tonight, and I ran into something of a brick wall as the mage tank.

Zerevor decided to wait until I had fewer than ten seconds on stolen Dampen Magic to renew his own buff, and worse did it just after he received Blessing of Spell Warding. Nightmare Seed let me eat the first full bolt, but he decided to chain cast at me and I was dead long before the blessing wore off. I'd write it off as a freak coincidence, since no one else has mentioned this situation, but it happened twice tonight during 10 or so tries.

Is there anything at all we can do in this sort of situation, or is it just a 'Crap Happens' moment?

Nulla in Mundo pax sincera.

 

Ja7us

Is it perhaps occurring just in time for the first spellsteal once the fight has begun? If so, this might be due to stealing the dampen with only a partial duration left on it.

 

• Joanna

We were two or three minutes in the first time it happened, stole the buff (2min duration) fired a few frostbolts, checked on Malande, repeated a few times. Noticed my buff was ticking down and he hadn't renewed his yet, at about 6 seconds left on mine he got BoSW, two seconds after that he renewed the buff just as mine expired.

The second time it happened was indeed right on the pull, and I stole his 'pre casted' dampen, but my stolen version had a 2min duration anyway. I was just mashing my SS hotkey as the duration ticked down and seeing 'immune' 'immune' 'immune.' As I mentioned, having it happen twice in the one night gives me pause, since it seems like a no-win, and yet no one else seems to have mentioned it.

*edit* I stupidly forgot a 2min reported buff duration does not equal 120 seconds, so that could indeed explain the second one. Doesn't help me with the first though.

Nulla in Mundo pax sincera.

 

Nurru

He generally refreshes the buff multiple times during the duration of spellsteal's buff. I've had an elemental shaman dpsing Zae and just purge every other one because I didn't need it. You really shouldn't be having a problem with this, just stop slacking on stealing it when it's up rather than waiting until 10 seconds are left like you seem to be doing. It isn't as if you can't spare the mana cost of spell steal over the course of the fight.

< Aislinana> Why would it be my job to sleep with vontre? Don't I have standards?

 

• Joanna

I take your point, but given that I had gotten into the habit of stealing the dampen as soon as he refreshed it, it's not applicable here. I stole Dampen Magic. 114 seconds later, when he had NOT recast it, he received Blessing of Spell Warding. A few seconds after that he renewed the buff, which I could not steal due to the blessing.

Nulla in Mundo pax sincera.

 

Gofa

Never happended to me as I am the mage tank for our guild. Normally he refreshes his buff once every minute. Maybe a hunter's arcane shot dispelled the buff? Just a thought...

 

Sumie

Is there a better way to pull than having a mage respec frost for his frost elemental? We've had Council on farm for a month but we still run into pull mishaps every now and then which are frustrating.

Question, do divine shield pulls not work anymore? (ie. pally running in, popping Divine Shield when he has agro, and misdirects go out afterwards) or is it too dangerous because of the casters?

 

• Chicken

We've always had our (fire) mages just run in while spamming spellsteal after they got Blessing of Protection cast on them. Works fine for us. No shenanigans with pets.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

predd

we are about to attempt council and i was wondering if it is possible to heal through the dps and tank through consecrate if you use a few shammys chain healing,plus should i use our druids to raid heal we usually have 2 of them,any input would be really appreciated thanks

 

Bunnyz

Consecrate is around 2k dmg / tick so if you use a few shammies you may stay and heal through it IF you don't get flamestrike/blizzard there - which is very likely will happen. However, I don't think it will be a good choice since there are a lot of raid dmg already, there is no need to get more unneccessary dmg to stress your healers :/

Why don't you just move out of it if you can?

 

• Insom

Im the mage tank for my guild, and ive never come across this issue.

Ive always had about 1.10 > 1minute remaining on my debuff when i rebuff it (sometimes i have to wait while hes spell immune, but i've never come across him not casting it until theres only seconds left on my debuff.)

I'd call it a one off thing, the debuff couldnt've come and gone whilst you were looking at Malandre? I know it sounds silly but funnier things have happened.

Any extra healing strain on the healers is bad for this fight, its long enough as it is, and im sure the healers will love you if your raid is taking less damage overall, also there is more chance of an instagib if a flamestrike or a blizzard spawns on you whilst you're taking damage from the consecrate, i'd just tell your melee to move out of it.

 

Vitae

I was tanking Veras as a protection paladin for the first time yesterday, and something rather odd happened. Of the last 15 or so deadly poisons of the fight, 14 of them were on me (and one on a random rogue halfway across the room). It seemed to really stretch the bounds of coincidence. Has anyone else noticed this sort of behavior since the patch?

 

Putts

We've had 2 different mage tanks for Council (one of them being myself), and we've never pulled with the elemental before (both of us are arcane frost spec). We just get the BoP, run in, and Spellsteal (no Blink, no POM, nothing like that first). I will, however, point out that it seems like I ran into more issues trying to Spellsteal when I kept running forward instead of stopping during the pull. The one time that I died on the pull, I was almost at the stairs before I hit Spellsteal for the first time, and that ended up giving me a LOS issue (and I'm a Blood Elf). The best strategy for me was to just run forward, stop slightly after I aggroed the Council, and hit Spellsteal after I stopped. Never had a single issue doing it that way.

After the Spellsteal, I typically POM Frostbolt the mage, CS the priest (to get her off the stage), and blow all my cooldowns to get my threat as high as I can on the mage so that other people can DPS him if needed.

 

Jebraltar

Over our six Council attempts, I think I ate a total of four Deadly Poisons, pally tanking him in the center with priest left, nethermancer at his starting spot, and the pally on the right.

 

khel

The pull: Have a paladin run in with divine shield on, mage right on his heals with bop, and hunters behind the mage misdirecting after the two shielded guys get initial aggro.

Interrupts: We run with 2 mages generally, 3 resto shamans, one enhancement shaman. 2 rogues and enhancement shaman go on Lady Malande, one rogue interrupting every heal, the other every divine wrath. All shamans set her as focus targets, and both mages also. Mages and resto shamans interrupt the heals (shamans aren't hit capped so we stack them) and enh shaman interrupts divine wrath. Let the smites go through, all other dps on the paladin.

Heals: Pick two raid healers..they need to be the best healers you have really. Both priests and paladins work fine here, though pallies will need a shadowpriest most likely. Have them set their raid frames to display "Deadly Poison" and use that as priority for heal targets...and be looking for it at every vanish. Nobody in the raid should ever take more than 1 tic of aoe damage, the divine wrath isn't stacking with the aoe dmg to kill anyone since it's always interrupted, so the only things left that can kill the raid are stupidity and envenom. You can't fix stupid, so fix the envenom! I use 1 shaman on each offtank (mage tank, Veras tank, Malande tank), 3 healers on the MT (one druid allowed to crossheal a bit), and 2 raid healers.


I ask that everyone equips battlemaster trinkets, and has healthstones, healthpots, and bandages ready. Play the survival game and "stay out of the fire" and win. It's pretty similar to the Archimonde encounter in that everyone needs to be very situationally aware, focus on their personal survival, and stay focused until it's over.