Server [---casting---] [---casting
/ /
/ /
Client [---casting---] [---casting---
A B C
In 2.3, the proposed 'fix' to using stop-casting is to desynchronize the client and server cast bars. In other words, once you cast a spell, the client will be in charge of determining when it ends, rather than the server (for purposes of letting you cast another spell). Effectively, this results in the ability to chain cast in the same manner as using stopcasting, without the added risk of canceling your current spell by attempting to cast again too soon.
This would return the /stopcasting command to its original purpose, for when you actually wanted to stop casting something to use a different ability.
And no, this shouldn't increase network traffic, as the client shouldn't be actually sending the cast command when you spam it before you're able to cast the next spell; it doesn't do that right now either, or the whole stopcasting thing wouldn't be necessary on live.
I wonder what happens if your latency decreases in between casts. Let's say you have between 100-200 ms ping and it fluctuates throughout the night. If you're at the 200 end when you cast fireball, then go to the 100 end after you finish, won't the client start your next fireball but the server says not yet done?
Hokay, someone mentioned that the Duel-wield whirlwind change would only increase fury warrior DW dps by like 1.5%. While I will believe that WW currently accounts for 4-5% of fury PvE dps (no personal experience), I just want to make sure you've explored this angle too: currently, bloodthirst is the main attack and WW is the filler, rage-permitting. Does this buff to WW flip that? IE does WW now do more damage, or more damage per rage, so that it becomes a larger portion of a fury warrior's dps, making this a bigger buff than it seems at first?
There's also a second, far more subtle point: flurry uptime. I would assume that one extra attack every eight seconds (tops) isn't going to increase flurry uptime very much (which is already near 100%), but I would like an experienced person to actually confirm this.
I also notice some people making a mistake when talking about expertise: the talents are all in *percents*, not in ratings, just like every other talent, ever. Defiance giving 6% expertise means a flat 6% dodge/parry reduction (theoretically eliminating them on normal 73's?), not the 2-ish percent that 6 expertise rating would have given.
Which, by the way, means that the expertise part of defiance gives almost as much threat as the actual threat part =P.
EDIT That's assuming 6% each, not 6% total.
Hokay, someone mentioned that the Duel-wield whirlwind change would only increase fury warrior DW dps by like 1.5%. While I will believe that WW currently accounts for 4-5% of fury PvE dps (no personal experience), I just want to make sure you've explored this angle too: currently, bloodthirst is the main attack and WW is the filler, rage-permitting. Does this buff to WW flip that? IE does WW now do more damage, or more damage per rage, so that it becomes a larger portion of a fury warrior's dps, making this a bigger buff than it seems at first?
There's also a second, far more subtle point: flurry uptime. I would assume that one extra attack every eight seconds (tops) isn't going to increase flurry uptime very much (which is already near 100%), but I would like an experienced person to actually confirm this.
I also notice some people making a mistake when talking about expertise: the talents are all in *percents*, not in ratings, just like every other talent, ever. Defiance giving 6% expertise means a flat 6% dodge/parry reduction (theoretically eliminating them on normal 73's?), not the 2-ish percent that 6 expertise rating would have given.
Which, by the way, means that the expertise part of defiance gives almost as much threat as the actual threat part =P.
EDIT That's assuming 6% each, not 6% total.
There is no such thing as an "Expertise Percent." It gives one Expertise per talent point, which would alternatively take 3.96 rating from gear. One expertise, whether gained from talents, racials, or rating points on gear then reduces your chance to be dodged and parried by .25%.
I also notice some people making a mistake when talking about expertise: the talents are all in *percents*, not in ratings, just like every other talent, ever. Defiance giving 6% expertise means a flat 6% dodge/parry reduction (theoretically eliminating them on normal 73's?), not the 2-ish percent that 6 expertise rating would have given.
Which, by the way, means that the expertise part of defiance gives almost as much threat as the actual threat part =P.
EDIT That's assuming 6% each, not 6% total.
Where exactly are you seeing that the Expertise talents are percentage-based?
Defiance (Protection) now also grants 2/4/6 weapon expertise.
Weapon Expertise (Protection) renamed Combat Expertise, now increases expertise by 1/2/3/4/5 and total Stamina by 2/4/6/8/10%.
Hokay, someone mentioned that the Duel-wield whirlwind change would only increase fury warrior DW dps by like 1.5%. While I will believe that WW currently accounts for 4-5% of fury PvE dps (no personal experience), I just want to make sure you've explored this angle too: currently, bloodthirst is the main attack and WW is the filler, rage-permitting. Does this buff to WW flip that? IE does WW now do more damage, or more damage per rage, so that it becomes a larger portion of a fury warrior's dps, making this a bigger buff than it seems at first?
There's also a second, far more subtle point: flurry uptime. I would assume that one extra attack every eight seconds (tops) isn't going to increase flurry uptime very much (which is already near 100%), but I would like an experienced person to actually confirm this.
I also notice some people making a mistake when talking about expertise: the talents are all in *percents*, not in ratings, just like every other talent, ever. Defiance giving 6% expertise means a flat 6% dodge/parry reduction (theoretically eliminating them on normal 73's?), not the 2-ish percent that 6 expertise rating would have given.
Which, by the way, means that the expertise part of defiance gives almost as much threat as the actual threat part =P.
EDIT That's assuming 6% each, not 6% total.
I for one believed Heroic strike was the main attack for fury warriors, with WW and Bloodthirst both as fillers every few cooldowns. At any rate, that's what i use on my warrior when i'm fury specced (probably because it's VERY similar to the 1:1.5 rotation for hunters)
So, for an ability that's only used every 8 or more seconds, it would seem fair that its total contribution to personal dps is low. Now, theoretically even a 100% increase in Whirlwind damage -assuming th offhand attack was identical to the main hand one- would still leave WW's contribution at a low level. What does change however is the chance of criticals, resulting from 2 attacks instead of one, that can benefit flurry and rage generation. BUT the benefit thus gained is only a random spike in dps.
As for expertise, i wouldn't worry abbout that. After all, it's a new stat that nobody has a clue how it will work. We can speculate, but all the theories here still need to be proven on the PTR.
EDIT: There is, indeed, no % on expertise. This leaves us with a question of the cap for it, though.
Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
- Soul Siphon: This talent has been renamed 'Improved Drain Life'.
yet? It only seems natural. :/
We'll have to see how things shake out for warlocks. I think the people worrying about SE, for example, probably don't have to worry about SE not affecting SS (rather, I think the fix being applied is to make SE not proc, say, Mark of Defiance or whatever on-harmful-spell proc items exist).
Maybe I'm being ignorant, but wasn't this patch supposed to fix Hunters in the arena? Yes you can dispel 1 magic buff every so often now, but that is the least of the Hunter's (In my opinion) problems when it comes to arena play... I mean I don't play the classes, but at the moment it just looks like Blizzard have been flat out lying to Hunters and Ret Paladins for the last 4-5 months regarding their rather huge problems.
Underwhelming patch notes to say the least :p
This patch was supposed to do many things. From what I've read so far, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, or something like that.
At this point I don't see how they could push this one live without some radical changes.
I for one believed Heroic strike was the main attack for fury warriors, with WW and Bloodthirst both as fillers every few cooldowns. At any rate, that's what i use on my warrior when i'm fury specced (probably because it's VERY similar to the 1:1.5 rotation for hunters)
So, for an ability that's only used every 8 or more seconds, it would seem fair that its total contribution to personal dps is low. Now, theoretically even a 100% increase in Whirlwind damage -assuming th offhand attack was identical to the main hand one- would still leave WW's contribution at a low level. What does change however is the chance of criticals, resulting from 2 attacks instead of one, that can benefit flurry and rage generation. BUT the benefit thus gained is only a random spike in dps.
As for expertise, i wouldn't worry abbout that. After all, it's a new stat that nobody has a clue how it will work. We can speculate, but all the theories here still need to be proven on the PTR.
EDIT: There is, indeed, no % on expertise. This leaves us with a question of the cap for it, though.
The paladin changes are dissapointing to say the least. Hopefully the 'fake/leaked' euro notes end up being added in later and these patch notes are just from an earlier 2.3 build or something.
It's a shame, I was actually looking forward to a patch for once. 8(
Oh well, the +heal -> +dmg change means 14 free shards at least!
This patch was supposed to do many things. From what I've read so far, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer, or something like that.
At this point I don't see how they could push this one live without some radical changes.
Speaking as an ele shaman I guess I'm meant to agree with you- I don't see why we're having our pve DPS nerfed, and there's nothing to help our pvp survivability issues- but two things:
1. A lot of other changes in this patch have been needed for a long time and will really fix stuff from the ground up. Levelling curve, dailies for dungeons and BGs and cooking instead of just for farming in obscure areas, finally sorting out weapon skill...
2. There's obviously more stuff to come. It probably won't be the magic fix for either shaman or hunters, but there is still more stuff.
This patch shows Blizzard finally getting on top of stuff that's been needed for a long time, though, so it's a pretty awesome patch IMO.
Okay, my interpretation of the changes seem to be against the consensus; I thought the .25% they mentioned was per rating, not per "point" or percent or whatever. I will say, it seems rather dumb that one "point" of expertise has a quarter-percent effect. If that's the actual ratio, I would prefer they just rename 6 points to 1.5%. A second layer of conversion seems silly and unnecessarily complicated.
Heroic strike adds static damage to the autoattack, and removes its ability to generate rage. BT and WW's damage scales with AP, and WW scales with base weapon damage. HS's only scaling comes from the theoretical 19% hit it adds to that attack. I think they also programmed it not to benefit from flurry, but I'm not sure that change ever went through. Heroic Strike also adds non-negligible amount of threat, making it just plain bad as a primary attack, except as a last-resort rage dump.
2H dps weaves slam into the autoattack cycle, using BT and WW as rage-dumps. DW spams bloodthirst first, then WW rage permitting, then HS if available. My idea was that WW and BT would flip preference.
An extra 2-weapon attack every eight seconds could be 20% or more of your damage, if your flurried weapon speed is around 2.0 and you don't bloodthirst. This puts the WW change at like, uh, 8%? of your total dps. This is totally rough-and-dirty first-order estimates though, totally ignoring important things like bloodthirst (lowers WW contribution) and DW miss rate (raises it).
Wasn't it always a common knowledge that each weapon skill reduces parry chance by 0.04?
They certainly haven't just changed names. They figured weapon skill was getting too over-complicated and that it was not efficient enough to counter dodges and parries and now are changing it.
Anyways, Haven't read the entire thread but judging from the first 2 pages it seems like people forgot that this new skill also will have a very positive effect on yellow attacks as well, unlike the old weapon skill. It's a nice addition in my opinion.
A long time ago weapon skill was changed from 0.04 percent from parry, dodge, miss, block to values much larger.
Something like 0.6% parry, 0.2% dodge, 0.1% miss - something along those lines, per point in weapon skill. This was according to a blue post. It basically increased the worth of weapon skill 10 fold.
Here is the page where its discussed: http://elitistjerks.com/f33/t11100-b...discussion/p7/
For instance the gauntlets of enforcement were supposed to give nearly a 2.4% reduction in parry with the new values.
However, the reality is weapon skill does not appear to be reducing your chance to be parried. It appears broken.
Therefore, unless they fix the code, and not just change their coefficients and names from weapon skill to expertise, then expertise will NOT reduce parry chance.
I'm just guessing the devs and programmers are not aware that parry reduction is broken (as indicated by countless WWS reports), and blue posts around TBC launch indicating how it was supposed to work (and isn't).
We're still looking at the possibility of a passive threat reduction, but we want to see how the changes we have look and play before making any final decision.
We've given Retribution Paladins some nice damage increases in 2.3, and we're going to be keeping an eye on those changes and what other adjustments they may require. We're still looking at the possibility of a passive threat reduction, but we want to see how the changes we have look and play before making any final decision.
I never saw, nor believe there was any mention that any threat reduction changes were promised, or specifically said to be coming in 2.3. Aside from that, not all of our plans to make game changes are "right now" or "the next patch". I know it's easy to make those assumptions because that's what's convenient, but it's just not always the case. Things can change, game development does evolve, especially in an environment such as an MMO.
I think I'm getting a bit pessimistic, that doesn't necessarily apply here, but I'm trying to impress upon you that things can and often do change. Saying we agree with something doesn't mean the change can be made right away, and looking into something certainly doesn't mean we're making a change.
Sometimes we do need to be able to express that we'll be looking into something without being verbally assaulted when the outcome doesn't meet chimeric expectations. If there's any question on why we may take various tactics in communicating with everyone, including limiting how and when we do so, this would be a great example.
This naturally was followed by lots of people quoting his post asking relevant questions to the topic at hand such as "why was ice block nerfed" "grounding totem ????" "you lied to hunters, you liars"
Speaking as an ele shaman I guess I'm meant to agree with you- I don't see why we're having our pve DPS nerfed
The damage scaling drop in DPS should be more than compensated for by LO proc'ing four times as often, albeit at half damage - threat-free. The change does hurt hybrid elemental dps though -- referring to those that stop before taking Lightning Overload.
The damage scaling drop in DPS should be more than compensated for by LO proc'ing four times as often, albeit at half damage - threat-free.
Show me your math that proves this statement, as it is simply false, and you should not be making flat assertions based on what your hunch says "should be" true. LO goes from being a 5% damage increase to being a 10% damage increase. That's good. But LB will only get 83% as much from +dam as it used to. Any elemental shaman with respectable raid gear (t4, crafted LW set, good heroic drops like Stormsong, etc.) is going to lose more than he gains. Period.
And our elemental shamans have never ever been threat capped. The LO change maybe means that they can start nuking a few seconds earlier because before they had to allow for the danger of an unwanted LO proc on their first cast in deciding when it was safe to start.
I sure hope the spirit is removed from mage dungeon/raid sets now ... having to use mage armor instead of molten armor just to get any use at all from a significant portion of your gear's stats is really not acceptable itemization. I don't include arcane meditation in the argument because having to spec 18 pts deep into a talent tree to get any use from your t5/t6 stats is even more ludicrous.
Aren't most tier'd set bonuses vastly more useful to a certain spec?
I'm looking forward to 2 piece tier 5 because I am felguard, but if I were affliction or destruction, I would find it completely useless (nearly).
Aren't most tier'd set bonuses vastly more useful to a certain spec?
I'm looking forward to 2 piece tier 5 because I am felguard, but if I were affliction or destruction, I would find it completely useless (nearly).
Thats a set-bonus, not needed in part of the set.
It used to be that mages needed spirit in order for Evocation to be useful, but now with Evocation being based off Intellect, spirit is almost 100% useless now. Meaning that all the spirit on our Tier sets is wasted value.
I haven't seen one mage yet saying this change is good, and probably never will.
Didn't see this in the thread yet. The Blizzard updater notes include this amazingly pointless gem: (rogues) Precision: this talent now applies to ranged weapons. What the hell? :/
Didn't see this in the thread yet. The Blizzard updater notes include this amazingly pointless gem: (rogues) Precision: this talent now applies to ranged weapons. What the hell? :/
Hey man, less misses with Deadly Throw at least. :p
Show me your math that proves this statement, as it is simply false, and you should not be making flat assertions based on what your hunch says "should be" true. LO goes from being a 5% damage increase to being a 10% damage increase. That's good. But LB will only get 83% as much from +dam as it used to. Any elemental shaman with respectable raid gear (t4, crafted LW set, good heroic drops like Stormsong, etc.) is going to lose more than he gains. Period.
And our elemental shamans have never ever been threat capped. The LO change maybe means that they can start nuking a few seconds earlier because before they had to allow for the danger of an unwanted LO proc on their first cast in deciding when it was safe to start.
It makes me sad that I've been looking forward to getting the gear you mentioned (which is hell on Rivensuck due to population issues). However, I've been putting together a crappy Enhancement set since the changes were announced.
This naturally was followed by lots of people quoting his post asking relevant questions to the topic at hand such as "why was ice block nerfed" "grounding totem ????" "you lied to hunters, you liars"
Haha, you don't actually have to point out that your board is better than theirs, we all know, and are overjoyed. also off topic, I went to a brobecks show in salt lake when I lived there. crazy!
on topic: Does anyone else get the feeling that blizzard is trying to buff elemental dps, but they just aren't good at math? Or maybe they are trying to buff elemenal dps for more casual players in 5 mans with crappy tanks. pretty weird change though.
You can't call a planet Bob!
.
You were missing the () at the end of Feral Charge (Bear), this is necessary otherwise WoW thinks you're trying to cast Feral Charge Rank Bear.
Or maybe they are trying to nerf elemental shaman domination in high end arenas, as stated in the other thread? (domination = over represented when the general population distribution is compared the the arena class distribution)
The Washington Post helps perpetuate a common and pernicious misreading of the decision, referring to "the Supreme Court’s judgment that corporations have the same rights as people when it comes to political speech." What the Supreme Court actually said is that people do not lose their free speech rights when they organize as corporations, including nonprofit interest groups as well as businesses.
So, 2.1: Nerf illumination because our mana regen was overpowered.
2.3: Buff all meditations and water shield/mana spring.
No real PvE Ret buffs to speak of yet (nerfed in fact because sanctified crusader is now reachable by holy paladins).
And now they're nerfing the 4 piece bonus that allows an alternative heal style other than FoL spam?
I am happy with the protection buff though. Buffing their stam lessens one of the gaps that kept them from being viable tanks.
Buffing arms wars for pvp is confusing, however.
The two classes crying for buffs (hunters/paladins), didn't really receive them in the ways they hoped. Yet the class most wished to be nerfed (warriors) received a buff?
And now they're nerfing the 4 piece bonus that allows an alternative heal style other than FoL spam?
Its not exactly known what its being changed to... or am I wrong?
edit: snap, WoR starting to data-mine the PTR client, the random boss Brutallus looks like he belongs in a Hellfire Citadel zone but I cant quite think where.
10/11/07, 9:15 PM
Similar Threads
