Here's an idea ... You want to xfer your lvl 70 from PvE to PvP ... fine, but here are the stipulations.

You only get to xfer your character, nothing else.

1. No Bank
2. No Gold
3. No Armor or Weapons on your character
4. No Reputation
5. No Professions
6. No Bag items either


I'm sure many of you wishing to xfer think this is overkill, but I think this is fair. If you want it that badly to get onto a PvP server you should be forced to lose a great deal of the Items + Gold + Reputation + Professions that you earned while on a PvE realm.

There is no question that is is much easier to level EVERYTHING on a PvE realm. And by everything I mean, questing, farming, leveling professions, getting in and out of instances, etc. etc. Therefore I think the sacrifice should be great if you want to xfer to PvP.

It seems most of the arguments posted in here come down to "leveling is not much harder on PvE". Well this option will basically give you a free level 70 on a PvP server.

We can only speak from experience. There are many PvP servers that are much MUCH harder to level on and of course other low population PvP servers where it's cake.

Blizzard can't just make a judgment call and allow PvE to PvP based on a few players "experiences". And by "few" I mean 100's, when this game has millions of players.

We can argue this topic for another year and we probably will lol, but if it does ever happen, there needs to be some strong stipulations figured into the solution because you have to look at the whole picture of your PvE character and not just the leveling from 1-70.

Leveling/questing/etc only takes significantly longer on PvP servers if you're terrible at PvP and have no friends. I actually found farming and leveling to be much more pleasant as a faction-outnumbered horde priest because I could just kill 60-70% of my competition for spawns, then corpse camp them until they log out (I enjoy griefing an unreasonable amount because I am an asshole).

I wouldn't mind seeing an arena rating requirement to unlock transfers to PvP. If you have a high rating you're probably not terrible at PvP, and chances are if you were on a PvP server it wouldn't have really slowed you down much. If you want to penalize people further because PvE is 'ezmode' then just tax their gold by a percentage or set a low gold transfer cap, and only allow soulbound items to come with the character.

I think that was a pretty terrible post, honestly. I disagree with just about every single point you made. You're way off base if you think it's easier to attain raid quality gear on a pve server. It's very easy to prove this. Your post basically reads as "I leveled on a pvp server and I want everyone to know how hard it was because I think it makes me a badass". Congratulations, you did something the vast majority of the people that play this game have done.

I don't even want to transfer to a pvp server, although I would have no problem playing on one. I want players on pvp servers to be able to transfer to pve servers without getting stuck there forever.

Yeah that makes sense cause a person just dinging 70 on a pvp server has no items/rep/gold at all. Good idea...I dont think there should be any punishment for it cause most of us didnt know when we started. If there has to be something, just charge an extra $10-15 thats an extra month worth of subscription which is a lot more than the time you spent getting ganked. But like Sebudai said, just get over the "I'm cool cause I leveled on PvP" crap. It aint that special.

I have a question for you... How many level 70's do you currently have on a PvE server?

Players always seem to make it sound like they only have one character they which to xfer, but for some reason they kept leveling others over and over, all while complaining about not being able to xfer from PvE to PvP.

Doesn't anyone find that strange?

Sure, maybe my idea is a bit harsh and there can be a compromise, but the fact remains that it's much easier "overall" in everything you do on PvE server when compared to a PvP server. You can through out end-game content, because by reading everyone's post in this thread there is not end-game raiding on PvE servers.

Players who want to xfer from PvE to PvP should not be allowed to take every single thing they own.

Rolling an alt and getting it to 70 is a hell of a lot easier when you have another character on the same server to supply it with cash and epix and mounts. It's also easier when it's just an occasional vacation during downtime rather than leaving everything else behind.
The difference in difficulties between PvE and PvP are not equivalent to the acquisition of every single piece of equipment on your character.

Since x-packs are supposed to be the giant reset button in the sky, where all your previous meaningful progress is erased, it seems to me that whatever toil there is leveling on a PvP server, is completely negated by the release of the next expansion. This says to me that, at the least, the period right before expansion release should allow PvE->PvP transfers, and maybe for a little while after provided you're still at the previous level cap.

I have one, this one. I have random mid level alts on pvp and pve servers 40-60. Like a few others have said, I dont want to and never plan to xfer to a pvp server. I dislike the idea of how it is and would be annoyed by the little kids who do nothing but gank. My only issue with it is it makes people transferring TO my PvE server think twice. I lead the top guild on my server, Illidan on farm etc, and getting new apps is hard as hell cause there aren't that many good PvE server guilds and PvP wont come over cause they cant go back. And the only reason I can see to transfer would be for a new guild and that would be dumb to take items/money/rep etc cause thats what you need to raid.

Oh I see, since I don't agree with you that automatically means I"m trolling this thread. At this point I'm not even sure it's worth my time replying to you with that attitude.

Anyhow, a few more questions for you:

If there is no "hard mode" why is it you only have one character?

You come here claiming you know PvP/PvE yet you only have one character on a PvE server as proof. Where is your experience on a PvP server?

I'm not against you being able to xfer to PvP, I'm just against you being able to keep everything you've obtained on that PvE server.

Life is full of hard decisions we all must make. If someone really wants to go from PvP to PvE then he has to decide if that's really the right thing for him/her.

I'm sorry, but I really find it hard to believe that there are not enough other PvE players that are looking for a guild to get end-game content.

It take a lot of effort to recruit players from other servers. Is your guild really putting forth the effort to recruit new players? How about merge with another guild? I've seen a lot of success with that.

But if there really is a shortage I'm sure Blizzard will look to merge a few PvE servers into one to help with that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't they doing that already? I'm not 100% sure but I thought I read some blue posts about that on the forums.

I have one level 70 character. I've started leveling and either aborted or am still leveling at least a dozen more, across both PvE and PvP servers. I never really concentrated on any of them to the extent that I felt like maxing them (other than a 60 rogue on Firetree--60 was max at the time I abandoned that character and account); they're bored-time, downtime characters.

And yes, they were all easy to level. I just get bored.

Your position was that PvE->PvP transfers should be completely naked, no gold, no rep, no bank. That's just fucking retarded and completely counterproductive. Most people who transfer do it to join another raiding guild. What guild is going to want someone who's been stripped by the transfer?

Have you even read this thread? 75% of the top end guilds are on PvP servers, the problem is the lack of progress on PvE servers. Your logic would only hamstring them if they come in with no gear. Its not all about the PvP. Naxx geared PvE'ers two shotting people died in 2006. But I guess your just begging for attention.

Hey Local This is Torngoth.

I gotta agree with you, I leveled Torngoth on Skywall(PvE) because a friend of mine transferred from a PvP server to it, and I decided to roll with him. Free transfers became available shortly before TBC came out and a few friends left(Cyrna/Jezz/Meph if you remember them) and I decided to go with them. I joined Malevolence and we were doing great.

That is, until the server reached it's limit(so to speak). People began to migrate off the server in masses and raiding dried up. I had been leveling an alt priest with friends on Cho'gall and, sadly, when the progession stopped, so did my will to play my rogue.

I leveled with the ideal that, "If your name is red, you are dead." and attacked without caution/care. Amazingly, I got more PvP action leveling my rogue than my priest(besides the occasional level 70 trying to camp me).

There is really no hardship in leveling on a PvP server, and depending on server size(Skywall had 6+ hour ques many times)it was actually EASIER to level on Cho'gall due to having mobs available.

I would love to have my rogue over on this server now, he was tons of fun and I'd like to play him in some higher end content, but Blizzard won't let me despite having a character already here and knowing the "strain" of leveling on a PvP server. I don't even have any cash on the character so it's not like I was just hoarding money on him or anything.

That's ludicrous. Yes it takes longer to level everything but it is hardly grounds for stripping a character of all of their gold and items, etc. Let's say it takes 25% longer to accomplish anything on a PvP server. So a character with 100 days played on a PvE server would have taken 125 days to do it on a PvP server. Your solution, generously assuming 10 days played to hit 70 on a PvP server, would be to strip a player of 90ish days of playtime invested in a character. Utter nonsense and completely disproportional.

No offense but it appears you have limited knowledge on which you base that opinion. Speaking as someone in one of the top three or four U.S. Horde PvE guilds I can assure you while there is no shortage of players to recruit from there is indeed a shortage of quality players.

i do agree, free transfers from anything2anything

i lvld on pvp, din't find it hard, yes getting cc'd in stv is a pain, get some help, people know the score in stv/tm and there is allways someone that is on there mainchar or has a higelvl friend ready to come if it gets silly.

only hardship i found when grinding money and rep is that it's boring
i don't care if some grind there ass of and gets exhalted 999 with jimmy on a pve and then comes with the rep to a pvp realm.

RP and Non-RP server only, let ppl pick if they wana be pvp flagged or not when they make the char, alltough participating in pvp action would temp flag you for 1h.
i meen just cus friend x dosn't wana gank when bored dosn't meen at 19:45 he dosn't wana kick bossass with friend y who likes to run around and gank ppl or just battle it of here and there while questing to spice it up


And as a side note, who many din't just roll pve cus they realy din't get it when they came home from the store with the game for the first time. Now in a raiding guild on a pvp server thinking, man if i only could transfer my warrior here and make a arena team with my new guild mates?

To put it nicely, this is very wrong.

It's pretty easy to point out specific instances and paint an entire picture with them, but the fact of the matter remains that specific experiences are often not shared by the whole, especially in a case like this where there could be any number of reasons for someone wanting to open PvE to PvP transfers.

Barring all that, people will roll and reroll on the server they are familiar with, and remain in the community they feel connected to. If someone has a level 70 on a PvE server, it stands to reason that their alts would also be on that same server. Likewise, a level 70 on a PvP server would most oftenly make his or her alts on that same server. Things like it being easier to level up some place else (i.e. the case now with low population servers being extremely solo friendly to any powergamer worth their weight in salt) don't factor in enough to offset the ease of twinking, or the familiarity of community. Level up on two different servers, and tell me you don't view one as 'home' and the other as 'foreign.'

It's a fact that I've seen expressed for years back in EverQuest. The same rule for character transfers was applied there, and when they finally opened up PvE to PvP transfers, there were a handful of people who levelled alts on servers and transferred them over. And that in a case even more extreme, where attaining level cap on a PvP server in EverQuest was *extremely hard* and the overall progression on PvE servers was *much farther*. Being able to transfer in a blue character to that server with gear that would make even the best geared PvPer pale in comparison was a very huge concern at the time. It never happened, not even once, and the rate of people levelling such alts to transfer was abysmal at best.

While once the issues may have been community and hardship, the issues now are consistency and conformity. With the rule remaining as it is you maintain neither, and thus will piss off at least one portion of your player base. Correcting the rule, from a pure business and PR standpoint, is much easier to deal with than leaving it alone. It makes much more financial sense, and the inherent anonymity of it (you don't know if the new guy who just transferred was from a PvE or PvP server) means those opposed to it won't be directly assaulted by it.

Your suggestions about the restrictions to place upon PvE to PvP transfers are archaic at best, and do not hold up in any sort of reasonable discussion. To put it another way: you are posting some WoW General Forums bullshit. Please cite actual reasons why you think this inconsistency should exist should you come back to debate these points, and no, the levelling difficulty is not one when players on even the most active PvP servers claim there is little to no difference.

No, it's really not.

<-- PvE character rerolled PvP

That is positively ridiculous and the players generally here saying PvE to PvP xfers are fine are the ones with EXTENSIVE backgrounds on PvP servers.

Bottom line if they dont do it they at least need to let people who WERE PvP have the option to go back once they went PvE....

BTW my PvP server experience = all of beta minus B phase. Malganis - Sargeras - Frostmourne - Chrommagus - Anetheon - Anuburak - (1 char I mainly played xferred to a PvE server.

And in none of those chars did I compromise my intelligence by playing a Nelf rogue =

That's basically me. I don't like world PvP at all. I don't find being ganked fun. I play a class/spec that sucks in a 1v1 situation. But I currently play on a PvP server for raiding opportunities. I've certainly considered going to a PvE server in the past and may do it in the future, but I'm terrified of being stuck with less raid opportunities, even though there are certainly Illidan killing guilds on PvE servers. I've rolled my alts on my server for financial reasons and everytime I get ganked I again question why I'm there.

I personally think PvE -> PvP transfers should at least be allowed under some circumstances. Such as having a max or high level character on a PvP server already. It would be more money for Blizzard and make people less afraid to transfer as well.

Imagine that you are an investor(Or, a Gamer!). You've placed a considerable chunk of your savings(time, energy, and $15 a month) in a particular market, and it's been a steady performer, let's call this market retail securities(PvE!). However, recently you devoted a sizeable chunk of your past decades savings and bonuses to investing in a different market, let's call it....Credit-Derivatives for differentiations sake(PvP!). The derivatives market is's riskier, there are more savvy investors involved in that market, you can lose more to a savage short-selling attack(get owned by a rogue), or you can win really, really big if other investors go with you on a bet(get into a good raiding guild, kill Illidan! Get purples).

You've done well in derivatives, but 30% of your assets are still wrapped up in the retail market(Joined your friends on a PvE server? That was stupid, what were you thinking!). What are you going to do??? Well, you would likely pay a fee (let's say...$25!, that seems like a nice, even number) to a broker, we will call him... Jon Blizzard, of Blizzard Brokerages(seriously, do I need to say this?), and Mr. Blizzard would remove your money(Character(s)) from the retail market, and give it to you to do what you want( "Give me the freedom to xfer PvE->PvP or give me Death(or purples)!" -Patrick Henry ). Now, since you want to invest that money in the derivatives market, you would ask Jon to do that for you, as the market is a pretty complicated place, and he's an expert at making sure things go smoothly. Now you've already paid Mr. Blizzard $25, so he goes ahead and moves the money from your retail account into your derivatives account(you just paid him $25, this is truly phat loots).

Suddenly, there's more money(characters!) invested in Credit-Derivatives (PvP), and the value (Density of non-shitty players) of said derivatives increase! EVERYBODY WINS! WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Christmas bonus for Mr. Blizzard; he just made the boss an extra $25, for practically no work! You had to pay a fee to move your investment, but guess what, you're in the hot-shit Derivatives market now so who gives a flying pig-fart? You sure don't! You're raking it in (PURPLES!!!!)! The only losers are the bond-fund managers in the retail market still trying to package and sell those retail loans(Poor, non-Illidan Killing PvE Guildmasters trying to recruit) to someone who's dumber than you were(unskilled and lazy casuals who can't 5 man Headless Horseman!). Oh, and anyone who was stupid enough to make realty investments outside of a major metropolitan area. Noobs.


*Edited for wall of text*

You've also got to remember that there are some advantages to being on a PVP server. Get your 70 to go level mining, and think about the fact that every time you see an enemy mining, you can actually kill them to make it easier. Think about when you were levelling with someone else, and there was an enemy waiting to kill the same mob as you, farming in the same area, generally stealing your kills and slowing you down, and you can just kill them. These and many, many more options are available to you on a PVP server, and they aren't on a PVE server. It's not all a one way street.

I play on a PVP server, but i'm not going to get up on my high horse and tell everyone how superior i am for doing it. Add maybe 4-5 hours to my /played to 70 for being ganked, an extra nights hard work to get there, and i have a character on a PVP server, and that's on a pretty brutal server, where my old guild was so well known that if my alt joined the guild he would be corpse camped by every horde who saw him. There are advantages to being on a PVE server, and there are advantages on a PVP server. Alot of the advantages on a PVE server suit levelling chars, the advantages of PVP servers suit 70's. But don't kid yourself that PVP server is somehow 'hard-mode'. Being ganked doesn't make something hard, it makes something take longer.

Taking the top 4 listed US realms from wowjutsu, all are PvP, all have 4 or more Illidan killing guilds, with other guilds close. Realms are Korgath, Mal'Ganis, Blackrock, and Illidan.

I know on my home server we have a motto for those who come to the forums asking about the server prior to transferring in, and that motto is "Get the fuck out, Blackrock is full!" Seriously, we are full, we get server queues in the school breaks.

I'm in favour of changing the transfer rules, but I can't help the feeling the predominant tendency of PvE'ers given this whole new slew of available options will be to naturally gravitate to the more "successful" servers. The high pop servers should be shut off, and that right there would open up yet another can 'o worms.

I'd call paying $25 and blowing your xfer cooldown a sufficient penalty. I assume that the real worry is players who are just going to level on a PvE server with the explicit intention of then transferring to a PvP server, and although $25 isn't a huge barrier when one considers the overall time investment of leveling, it's not negligible either.

And as has been stated, I imagine that there's as much difficulty variance within PvP servers as between PvE and PvP servers. Maybe they should ban low pop -> high pop PvP xfers as well? As long as we're just going to throw out barriers that cause a lot more harm than benefit.

That doesn't make sense, as PvErs can still transfer to the relatively successful PvE servers. And honestly, most people will transfer to a high-pop server simply because it's high-pop, not because they're going to join a resident uberguild. I mean, top-end raiding guilds really do not comprise that huge a portion of a server's population.

If there's any risk to these kinds of network externalities, they already exist within the current transfer system (look at Tichondrius, the unofficial capital of WoW's PvP game) and PvE -> PvP transfer would.... double these effects at worst.