Regardless of how much 'easier' PvE servers are over PvP servers, and the effect that has on... the population number (alts, people actively playing on the server instead of being corpse camped until they quit), the economy, etc, the biggest difference between PvE and PvP servers is in the endgame possibilities for people. This is what's been stated many times already in the thread, by allowing PvP players to transfer to a PvE server in hopes of finding a guild, or whatnot, they're forever locked out from a huge percentage of the WoW playerbase after that. The segregation of the server types just really closes off a huge amount of possibilities for players and guilds looking to improve their play experience, and it's silly that it's still the rule.

Pussy.

no PvE -> PvP also discourages players to transfer to PvE.

If transfers from pve -> pvp were open I'd jump on my brother's PvE server and not be scared of being stuck not being able to get back to a PvP server

God damn it Kalman you've made me look like an idiot.

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Any argument that starts with something like "Regardless of all the legit counter points that have been stated already" fails immediately.

PvE to PvP transfers will/should never happen. You are given a choice loud and clear... suffer the wrath of the gankings while leveling or don't. People should not have the option to level EZ mode from 1-70, then jump in with the big dogs. Even at 70, I don't care how many in-game hours you have had on a PvE server... You shouldn't be able to farm elementals with such with ease, then switch to a world where everyone has a hell of a time farming for the same primals.

I have seen the argument that if I level from 1 to 70 on a PvP world, and want to switch to PvE for raids, I should be able to switch back to PvP. The answer is No... you shouldn't. Anyone could level from 1 - 70 on PvP, switch to PvE for grinding hard to get mats, then switch back. Anyone here that has grinded to Exalted with Netherwing knows the hell that goes down in the cave while killing Ravagers. No chance it should be handed to people willing to pay to switch to PvE temporarily.

You're basically full of crap. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I have been attacked exactly once in the Netherwing Mines and plenty of others have had similar experiences, so that's a pretty weak example. And if someone wants to level to 70 on a PvP server, pay $25 to transfer to a PvE server for 3 months to grind up tailoring or blacksmithing or an epic flyer and then pay $25 to transfer back, why exactly should we stop them? They're clearly fucking morons and I'd be happy to see Blizzard bilk them for the fifty bucks.

What a productive contribution!


As usual this thread displays the tendency of PvP fans to put on macho displays and act like anyone who disagrees with them is a pansy, while entirely ignoring even the possibility that other arrangements might be better for the game as a whole. It's perfectly fine to disagree with the proposition that PvE->PvP transfers would be a good idea, but half the counterpoint replies in here are of the form "I'm a big tough guy with a huge epeen and you can shut the hell up."

Do you have any proof to back any of those claims? From playing on Tichondrius and looking at prices on servers like Hyjal I've seen no correlation between PvE/PvP and AH prices. They were typically the same when I played on Laughing Skull as well.

Well, I have had different experiences myself. I have been attacked (and done the attacking) more times than I can remember. I have had the same trouble banishing demons in Blades Edge when there is a raid of Horde killing everything in sight. Even when I'm not physically being attacked, I have to keep an eye out constantly for the possibility of it happening. And I don't know what kind of PvP server your on, but the meeting stones in the Outlands are war zones on mine. I couldn't even duel outside of Shatt last night without my friend being killed while he had 100hp left. Despite what your experiences are, PvP servers are a very different place than PvE servers and should be kept separate. The only reason PvP to PvE transfers are allowed by Blizzard are because some people get frustrated when being ganked while questing, and choose to wuss out by switching to PvE. I don't care how big you think my "epeen" is, I'm not flexing, just speaking the truth.

For the same reason some of us are against gold farmers. Most people don't like to play a game where some kid can advance quicker because their mommy or daddy are willing to fork over the extra money. In that case... Blizzard should allow people to pay an extra $100 and they will cut the amount of XP it takes to get from 1 - 70 in half. You have a poor attitude, while some of us take pride in working for what we got in the game.

I don't see the point in segregation and limiting relationships because someone has a red badge of courage from leveling in PvP enabled STV. I leveled to 60 at release on a PvP server, I've been ganked many times. Who cares, it's not a valid reason for having a second-citizen designation for anyone who rolls PvE.

With the servers down (and me at work), I can't grab specific numbers. I will admit my experience is limited. About 3 months ago I created a character on another server solely to compare prices. Were they drastic differences? No. But in general the PvP server I am on was a bit higher.

Who wouldn't go grind where you can't get killed if given the choice?

I would be interested in getting some prices from different servers to test this. Although this may not be the best time to do it since prices may be artificially inflated thanks to new season 3 gear and a very high demand for enchants and gems.

I would think the following would be a good check:
All primals, 2 or 3 of the top herbs, 2 or 3 of the top ores

Those would be the main things that would be subject to the PvP vs PvE difference in terms of farming and economy.



Another problem with this thread is it is filled with personal experience. People have admitted to being in the mine and not getting attacked by alliance. My thought is PvP first, PvE/farming second. If I see an alliance, I don't wait to go after them. These people that talk about doing things without getting ganked amaze me...PvP works both ways - feel free to go kill someone before they attack you!

Your accusations of being considered second-class are invalid by the game standards. You are given access to all the content PvP servers are. There is no difference aside from the PvP experience, which is one that you decided on yourself.

On the flip side, this game is all about awarding extra effort. Gladiator titles, HWL/GM titles, certain levels to obtain gear.

Similar to what you are saying would be for someone else to say "give everyone gladiator titles, all the gladiators did was win a few extra arena games anyway!".

As for limiting relationships - This game has millions of people playing it...i'm doubting there is a lack of gaming-relationships.

I've always believed Blizzard's reason for preventing PvE -> PvP server transfers involve exposing people of one mindset to another. As someone who have leveled up to 70 both on PvE and PvP servers, I can confidently say there is a difference. On PvE, players try to play fair, in general. There is a pervasive sense of decorum, of courtesy and fair play. When someone behaves like a jackass, they do it with the understanding that there is an unspoken rule they are breaking, that they are behaving in a way that goes against the moral grain of those around them. This is not the case on PvP servers.

On PvP, civilized behavior does not grant brownie points. If you leave a member of the opposing faction alone because he is much lower level than you, there is no guarantee he will do the same. He may come after you when you spirit rez, he may call out your location to higher leveled toons in the area, he may log on his main and gank you over and over again, and there would be no hard feelings on either side. The people who whine on PvP realm forums about bullies are ignored and even mocked, and it isn't because they are wrong, it is because bullying and "Might is Right" is the unspoken rule of the server. If you are too weak to fight, don't expect laws to protect you. Run, and come back when you are stronger. If you are being bullied by one character, come back with four friends and turn the tables on him. That's the mindset you have to expect on PvP.

If you look at how much Blizzard caters to the casual gamer, if you look at the fact that this appeasement is what made the game so successful, then it really wouldn't surprise you to know that Blizzard wants to keep carebears away from the hardcores. They'd lose money every time a cocky casual thinks he's purple enough to transfer to pvp, only to have his butt handed to him repeated over an 8 hour ganking period. His finger would go on the "Cancel Subscription" button when he realizes that his whining over "unfairness" falls on deaf ears, and his illusion of civility and cordiality in a video game is shattered by the brutal truth: in WoW, he is just as powerless as he is in real life, perhaps even more so because the rules here are arbitrary and no one actually needs to obey by them. If a hardcore wants to play on PvP, he can roll a new toon. If a carebear wants to try it, let him roll a new toon too, so he could slowly relearn the game and not get put off by "cultural shock".

I agree with your comments regarding code of conduct and such for the most part. However the basic "code" is still the same on PvP servers...the difference being that we are able to break it at any time while PvE servers do not have that option.


aside from all that, your above quote made me chuckle...if only rolling on a PvP server prevented carebears!!!!

Uhm..I pretty much play this game all day long since I have nothing better to be doing (High school FTW) and I farm primals in Netherstorm, Nagrand, Zangarmarsh and Shadowmoon Valley for hours on end without much, if any downtime at all due to world PvP. Farming those same primals on my hunter (Who is on a PvE server) is just as time consuming and annoying. I have my Netherdrake on my hunter, which I got while he was on Azgalor (A PvP server), I leveled my hunter 1-70 on a PvP server, I did most of my raiding on him on a PvP server, but decided to raid with a better guild on a PvE server. Well, turns out that lasted about 2 months before Vashj/Kael burnout set in and we stopped raiding. Great, I'm stuck now. All that work on a PvP server, then 2 months on a PvE but I'm stuck for life, great.

Solution? I rerolled on a PvP server to do it all over again. So far I've gotten about 35 days /played on my warlock since I rerolled (3 months ago), I have my epic flying mount, I have about 4000 gold on me, and I farm primals all day/night along with the occasional raid. This game is so absurdly easy to do shit in, I don't get how people think that PvP servers make it so much harder. I die more often to me not paying attention and letting mobs kill me than some full merc rogue jumping me in my farming areas.

I guess pre-BC when STV was indeed traumatizing to get corpse camped for hours in it may have seemed more difficult but really, thats completely your own fault for letting it happen. You could always have logged off and done something else for a while (Go outside, maybe?). You could have spirit rezzed and gone to another zone (STV is NOT the only place to level 30-45, folks). But in this day and age of WoW, where everyone is in Outlands on the Elemental Plateau getting their farm on, who's to gank you in winterspring? Oh, that one Gnome Mage who got lost, he'll kill you maybe twice at the most and you'll both move on with your life. That cost you what, 5-10 minutes of your time? Don't go prancing around claiming you're a super hardcore badass cause you leveled 1-70 on a PvP server and spent about one extra day /played getting there due to being ganked, really, you aren't special.

In all honesty, this game is catered to the casual in the end, I don't see why Blizz hasn't noticed some moron who didn't bother reading about no PvE -> PvP transfers (Or didn't know about transfers at all) when they made their character then when they go to transfer to play with friends, they find out its not allowed. If people are willing to spend the money on it, then why is Blizzard stopping them? In no way will it ruin the game at all. If people are worried about gold farmers farming up 10,000 gold then transferring, limit the gold transfer of PvE -> PvP to 1,000 gold. Thats plenty to take along with you if you have it, considering alot of the people in my guild and in the game in general seem to be in awe of having over 500 gold if you already bought a flying mount of something.

Opening up PvE -> PvP transfers is in no way game-breaking or game-enhancing for those doing it or those on the servers they come to/leave. No sense in not allowing it or arguing for it to not be allowed, all arguments for it are long outdated and people need to realize this if they haven't already.

Or he would proably wait 3 months and transfer back.

I see no loss on Blizzards part from this.

I'm in favor of PVE->PVP server transfers. Here's a few points:

1.) Leveling on a PVP server can be anywhere from moderately more difficult to moderately easier depending on the servers you're looking at. In the extreme case, you can level on a low pop PVP server with a huge population imbalance (pick the overpowered side) and it will be incredibly easy compared to any high pop PVE server. There are a servers where you literally won't see any member of the opposing faction for hours. So, a blanket statement of "leveling on PVP is way harder" is just wrong. It's harder in some cases and easier in other cases.

2.) In response to all the people saying "you knew what you got yourself into when you rolled pve", that's not really true. When I originally picked a server, I picked pve because I thought pve servers would have an edge in raiding. I'm more interested in raiding than pvp so that was a natural fit. At the time, I really didn't realize that pvp servers would excel at everything in the game when compared with pve servers. So, now I have 3 characters on a pve server that I will never play again even though I put a lot of time into them. Instead, I'm just going to continue with my one pvp character.

3.) PVE server raiding is dying a slow death. No one will transfer from pvp->pve so getting competent raiders is near impossible. If blizzard wants pve servers to remain viable at all they need to allow transfers in the reverse.

Also, here's a quick tally from leveling to 70 recently on Mal'ganis.

~50 hks - hillsbrad
~50 hks - stv
~50 hks - outlands prior to 70
~50 hks - elsewhere

edit: these numbers are probably slightly high... I ended up with 150 hks total by 70, but the proportions are roughly correct.

If you avoid stv and hillsbrad, you can pretty much avoid half of all pvp while leveling. I'd also estimate that I was ganked around 50-75 times total while leveling. Yeah, it's a time waster, but really not that much.

1) Seems like there is a solution to everyones complaints!!!!
2) Again, one (or 10) people's experience does not counteract the possibility of things happening. You not getting ganked = congrats for you! Someone else may spend hours being corpse camped.

You mentioned farming with no problems, that just means you should be on a PvE server!


I tend to think that people who want to be on a PvP server just want to do it so they can say they are on one...not because they really enjoy the PvP aspect of the game. PvE allowes for pvp to happen, just flag yourself! I've found that is what most people want anyway...to PvP on their time, not whenever anyone else wants to.

Next time you are up at elemental plateau, and you see a nice peaceful alliance player leaving you alone...go kill him 3 times. See how long he stays nice.

People that talk about avoiding PvP and then saying it is the same to level or quest or farm on PvP vs PvE servers are not playing PvP servers how they are meant to be played.

With no offense meant, ignorance is a poor excuse. Not doing research into what server you pick is like saying to a cop that you didn't see the sign that said "STOP" on it.

Here is a response: If it is no problem for someone to put 200 days into a character...then what is another 35+ hours for level'ing a new toon?

This is coming from me, a guild officer, owner/webmaster of our website, and the one who pays for our guild ventrilo.

You spoke in extremes, which it is a well-known fact this game is more geared to the casual player.

You are definitely correct in your statements "whats another hour in farming". Thats true. Again my response is "Whats another 35+hours for level'ing a new character?"

How exactly is not knowing that pvp servers would excel at raiding *at release* ignorance? There was nothing to research. I just assumed that people who were more interested in pve would roll on pve servers.

No, it's really nothing like that at all.

I don't see how you can act so condescending in the general raiding community's direction here. It's common knowledge transfers should be open due its direct effect on potential guild seeking individuals. Just because you feel that we will be taking some hypothetical rank of 'Leveled on a PVP-server' away from you by opening these transfers does not change the fact that they should be opened

Because leveling a new character forces Sebudai to lose 300 days of character development.

There was nothing to research? Go to server forums and look at different progression charts. Ask around with level 1 alts as to how far in progression servers are.

You assumed...that was your problem.

And people on PvE servers mostly are more interested in PvE...doesn't mean they are better at it than PvP-focused players.