I think the main different between leveling on a PvP server and a PvE server is when the server is new. I've leveled to 60 to Aggramar, Sen'jin, and Staghelm (all PvE realms). I've leveled to 60 on Altar of Storms and Lethon (PvP servers). I also have a 70 on Sen'jin and a 70 on Lethon.

I do completely see how a new server with people scrambling to 60 was a very different environment depending on whether it was a PvP or PvE server back in vanilla. But now...meh. 1-60 is pretty much deserted. Even 61-70 isn't so bad. The only argument I can think of for Blizzard is thinking of WotLK leveling.

Using the example of the person saving up 10,000g on a PvE server...who cares? You can do the same on a PvP server, just might be slightly more difficult. And it's not like people who are hurt most by these absent transfers (raiders) are going to constantly want to jump ship. They want a solid home to play in, and everyone on a PvE server is cut off from a significant amount of realms. Conversely, people on a PvP server won't transfer to PvE in many cases for fear of getting stuck. It's just a horrible situation in general.

In sum: the differences between a PvP and PvE server are not extreme enough to warrant this distinction at this point in time.

How is that pulling their heads out of their asses? Their rules have stayed the same, and as you said you agreed to them when you transferred, why would you think, or expect anything different?

On Warsong there is always a continual battle at raid gathering point and whoever has the largest numbers controls the 25 man summoning stone. SSC if your faction isn't in control can take up to 2-3 death runs to get from the water to the portal. In Netherstorm if you don't control the stone you may have to wait 10 minutes for your 60% mount people to either take the Flightpath from Shatt to the eye. Repairs can also get frustrating, members of both faction in the eye love to park their mounts on the repair guy making it very difficult to click on the repair guy without accidentally attacking the alliance player. Same with SSC if another guild is outside gathering members and you need to repair quick you could take a few death runs to get to NPC and repair and get back inside.

I am sure everyone remembers the raid group towards the end of vanilla wow where the opposing faction would take turns MCing the main tank outside of Naxx for hours on end so that they couldn't raid. Leveling on a PvP server (specially since everyone is in outlands) is a minor inconvenience compared to a bored raid group.

I am on the fence on the issue as a whole, I have a friend who didn't understand the consequences of transferring his druid from a PvP realm to a PvE realm and then couldn't get it back to our realm. Most of the PvP that happens on a PvP server is in the BGs. I think most PvE player have never even contemplated what it means to control the stone, whether that is for 5 mans, 10 mans or 25 mans. PvE -> PvP has very little to do with leveling in my mind and has everything to do with travel and instance control. PvP probably adds 5-10 minutes on average to any individual raid/party members travel time. PvP even hass an effect on doing dailys, once Blades edge or Netherstorm gets crowded people will kill you to get their quest done faster and likewise you will do the same.

If you want to have a fair debate do not encapsulate this issue into how hard or how easy it is to level on a PvP server.

You didn't mean half of all players, you meant half of the "player base?"

I agreed to bite the bullet on a stupid rule, that doesn't mean I didn't like it. I expect Blizzard to again, pull their head out of their asses and remember that not everyone is transferring a sub-70 character from PvP, nor has PvP become that much of a real thing anymore.

I'd agree that putting in a petition for the transfer was futile, but the purpose was to squeeze out the reasoning behind the rule, knowing that it wasn't going to change anyway. When the only reason provided was the one immediately debunked (for having leveled on PvP), I come again to the conclusion that Blizzard needs to get their head out of their asses and change it. PvE to PvP transfers are long overdue.

Tell that to Blizzard. That appears to be the entire arguement their reasoning hinges upon.

I was on the same server as FoH, Hyjal, and transferred a level 20 something alt over when it was available. I thought it might be fun to play on a pvp server, and I sorta twinked my guy with like 40g for the 20-29 BG bracket. I left my main, at the time, on hyjal. That money was long gone by the time I was in any kind of contested zone and got past 29. I ended up leveling him to 39 because I felt there was little diversity or challenge in the 29 bracket. 39 was still easy, as was 49 (by this point, it was simply because of mages being very good in BGs back then, I was not considered a 'twink' once I was in my 30's).

In any case, the only time I ever got slightly frustrated at all, was the last 2-3 levels to 60, trying to AE farm Western Plaguelands. Very rarely, I would get some alliance mage come in trying to do the same thing, who generally out-geared me and started ganking me while I AEd. If he was really persistent, and I couldn't take him, I just went and soloed somewhere else. Wasn't really a big deal.

The ironic part is, on a PVE server, he could have just flagged himself and stood in my AE to get me flagged and then ganked while I was pulling anyway. Would have made me an open target to any other alliance too, and other horde generally just stare at you rather then get flagged themselves. On PVP servers, other people are more willing to help stop a ganker.

I leveled the mage for TBC, from day 1 that the xpac hit. Most people will remember the unspoken truce that existed in the packed zones as everyone leveled, so using that argument is sorta weak too. When the zones are overpacked, and everyone is leveling, most of them tend to not want to get into pvping. People generally only want to gank in world zones, not get into long drawn out PVP battles unless there is something to be gained.

In other words, it's some perceived notion that those who leveled on PVP servers had it so much harder then those who leveled on PVE servers. It seems to only exist with those who have never played on a PVE server, and from someone who has leveled on both, it's such a minor difference that it does not warrant this outright ban on transfer.

At the very least, put the time restriction stated above (minimum of X days played), and only to certain PVP servers that are older, not the brand new ones (which they wouldn't let lvl 70's of any server transfer to for a long time, anyway).

I think the main problem Blizzard now perceives with opening PvE->PvP transfers is ruining the server communities on these PvE servers. While it isn't exactly common to see those in support of PvE servers being vocal about it (on Blizzard's forums or similar medium), I think that currently that those who quietly wish they had chosen to play on PvP (and would transfer given the option) far outnumber those happy with their PvE server environment. As such, if this change was implemented at the current time without thorough risk assessment, we could very easily see a fair number of PvE servers turning into ghost towns.

This is possibly unlikely to change in the near future, as world PvP has been in decline for some time, and as such this change could spell doom for some of the smaller PvE servers. In addition to this, the mad scramble for those on PvE servers to transfer to the more popular PvP servers could possibly lead to unnecessary server stress and overcrowding (after all, look what happened to Mal'Ganis when half of Arthas decided to jump ship and transfer there last year).

I would have agreed that PvE to PvP transfers would be unfair....like a year and a half ago when people were getting ganked right and left in every zone from 1-60, and everyone was in the Old World.

But we all know 1-60 areas are pretty dead for the most part, the risk of getting ganked or having a confrontation is very very low.

And people leveling in the 60-70 range have better things to do then gank(Like getting a flying mount to gank with!), the most PvP action I ever see is at a random meeting stone.

The War in Warcraft is pretty much dead at this point. I don't see why they don't open up transfers. I look forward to carebearing with the Horde in Dalaran for WotLK(Except Ghando, he smells) ^^

Ctrl-V is your friend.

To those saying the difference between PvE and PvP nowdays is negligible, that depends entirely upon the server. My home server Blackrock, is still as viscious and gank prone in the traditional areas today, as it was upon release day. Depending on how bored the opposite faction is, some days it is impossible to level in areas like STV and TM.

That said, I'm in favour of open server transfers regardless of type.

You can make the same argument for character transfers in general. Adding in a new set of players to any established community is sure to disrupt the culture -- however, the character transfer system implemented so far is widely lauded and embraced by the general populace.

Claiming that PvE servers suck and many people want to leave them because they suck and that it would ruin PvE servers completely is a seperate issue in my opinion, and if it were true that Blizzard was holding off on opening PvE to PvP transfers due to such an irrational fear simply as nothing more than a stop gap measure (we still have not seen any ideas from them to fix low population servers), it would paint them in a much more malicious light than I think any of us view them as. I don't think they link the two problems together either, I just think they haven't really thought about it in awhile.

No interest of mine to derail this thread, yet I'd like to play Devil's Advocate in support of the person you're attempting to educate and remind you to try that in a royally swamped BG queue area like the one in org and see how easy it is to click on the NPC's bar when it constantly jumps around as players move around and the bars constantly reposition. Sometimes your method works, sometimes it doesn't. A raid of jerks sitting on an NPC is better handled by /target name.