Obviously you have never played chase the moving bar when your 20 other fellow raid members are also there trying to repair. I have adopted a hoover method where I do not land so that if i mis-click i will not attack. It still adds frustration and daily difficult.

That's fair, but if the real PVP server experience comes from controlling the stones and the like, what difference does it make if you start on that server at 70 (when you start running those instances) or at 1, where you're extremely unlikely to truly try to run an instance at level anyway.

The only valid argument I can see against allowing PVE-PVP transfers is that it would probably overcrowd some of the "better" servers. When looking at PVE server progression to find a viable spot for my transfer, there were generally only one or two servers that met my standards as far as having multiple guilds fairly progressed in raid content. Looking at PVP servers, there are several servers with lots of BT/MH guilds. They probably don't want to cause an influx of people to hit them.

Lets just say I wish I had a few level 70's on a PvE server that I could grind dailies with and then xfer to my PvP server.

Yes, I would go through the trouble to avoid spending an hour trying to make 10g and 2 mediocre potions while being constantly ganked mid escort.

This wasn't supposed to be a rant about dailies but, there are differences between a PvE server and a PvP one that people seem to be trivializing but really when you take a deeper look the difference is pretty big.

I honestly think this is blizzards policy to keep farmers/botters from clogging up PvE servers then transferring gold to PvP servers.

True story. The fact is, WoW is experiencing, to a very, very limited extent, what EQ servers experienced during GOD-Omens etc. A dwindling population on certain servers. The smart thing to do would be to merge low-pop servers (hello, this would be a way to start to fix progression blocks and ruined economies) and offer free transfers from high-pop servers to the newly merged servers for x months. This means that raiding guilds could xfer to server Y, and applicants to that guild who debated dropping 25$ for the chance to app can xfer free and have a few other potential destinations to app as well. There are literally a thousand fix options for the current problem. But there IS a problem (a small-medium sized skilled playerbase does not exist on pve servers, but does on pvp), and Blizzard should at least acknowledge it.

Additionally, the lack of pve->pvp transfers causes a massive glut for middle-highend pvp guilds since they only need X people, and there are 100x applicants availible, mostly not keyed, because there's no room for them in established guilds, it's hard to make their own, and there is a relative lack of mid-high-end guilds on PvE Servers (relative being the key word here, let's not get crazy).

A really good example of this is comparing Destromath(pvp) to Dragonblight(pve), horde side. Destromath has three horde guilds in black temple, one of which is top 30 US Illidan and has been top 50 US since BWL, additionally, destromath has 3-5 guilds in SSC/TK, most of which are not progressed far, but some of which are 4/6 ssc 2/4 tk and the like. That's a total of 9+guilds in ssc/tk actually progressing. There are even more guilds that are farming Karazahn.

On Dragonblight, there is ONE guild in Hyjal/BT, they've killed Rage, but no other progress afaik. One guild working on KT, and two guilds with more than VR down in ssc/tk. That's 4 guilds horde side making any sort of progression. Every single other guild is either stuck on gruul, or simply clearing Karazahn.

These are both day 1 servers. Both saw transfers TO them during the server migrations back in 2005. One is significantly further progressed than the other, and could be more so, considering the glut of quality players without quality guilds (destromath), while the other lacks quality players (seriously, complete lack).

I would kill for the chance to move my warrior to destromath, or both my warrior AND warlock from db/destro to a different pvp server altogether.

*edited for wall-of-text* Please excuse the rambling, I'm having trouble being as articulate as the rest of you today.

I agree completely. Personally, I don't care whether or not they open these transfers. If they make it so that there is an incentive for people to transfer from pve to certain dead pvp servers, it might actually be a great thing.

But the difference between pve and pvp can be considerable. In vanilla wow I took longer to level because I avoided arathi and stv completely. Now those zones might be dead, but there are at least a couple of alliance that have made a name for themselves in gurubashi for corpse camping lowbies, and they do that to this day. Same thing immediately after the release of tBC. They might not be enough to justify not having transfers, but there was a difference.

And the point someone made about controlling meeting stones is dead on. My guild had to play around with starting raid times because 2 alliance guilds raid ssc at the same time we do, so we lose about 2 or 3 corpse runs to get in (nevermind not being able to summon someone), and we've started bringing repair bots along simply because repairing at the npc outside ssc takes a long time when there are 2 enemy raids there. When kara was a hot zone, I got more hks there than in bgs.

I can only imagine that that will get worse for zul aman, especially for alliance (but it will be bad even for horde, as the front gate is contested and therefore flags you).

Now, I will agree that that is not enough to exclude these transfers, especially since with the 3 month cooldown and the 25 dollar fee I dont think people will exploit these tranfers. But the differences are there.

Yep, thats fair too. They would eventually have to experience the same. Like I said I am really on the fence. The longer a PvE transfer is on a PvP server the less of an "advantage" they have. The advantage i refer to is ease of grouping/leveling/questing instancing compared to PvP servers. I have had 5 mans break up because when two of us go tto the stone to summon (CoT) alliance controlled it and the rest of the group refused to make their own way to the instance (plus we would have had to wait 10 minutes for them to get there).

I would be fine with PvE -PvP transfers being enabled in the month prior to expansions. Then the PvE players could experience leveling in a PvP environment. Post expansion you run into the same debate that they could have leveled 70-80 on the pve server and got an easy break.

Ultimately though the advantage of a pve-> pvp player will diminish to nothing after the next major content push. Whether that be a new tier instance or an expansion. So in the long run there shouldn't be any huge issue enabling pve - pvp.

If you're serious about this, I'll point you to some PvP servers that you can already do this on. I'm not kidding. Try Lightninghoof, it's almost a total carebear fest. Probably some servers that are even more carebearish than mine, try playing a hordie on Coilfang with their 80% horde population. That'd make for some easy cash grinding.

Right, I didn't say people don't gank. I just said that the scenarios people come up with to justify not allowing transfer are generally exaggerated. i.e. except on the really huge servers, there isn't a bunch of lvl 70s sitting in old world zones ganking all the time anymore, and being at the forefront of the leveling curve now with an expansion, the ganking is pretty low considering the density of the players in the zones. It's just reinforcing your point, people only gank when they have an advantage. If the zone is packed, like hellfire the first week of TBC, everyone carebears up because there's a ton of opposing faction right there too.


I also think a lot of people are underestimating how many people would actually transfer TO PvE servers FROM PvP if they knew they weren't going to be locked on PvE servers forever. Progression is generally slower on PvE servers, and I think one big reason is that your potential recruiting pool is so much smaller since no one wants to make a permanent switch like that.

I don't think all the PvE servers would become ghost towns as everyone goes to PvP. I think low population servers would definitely stay the ghost towns that they already are. But, I doubt any medium-high pop servers would suffer huge hits.

On the other side of this (rather hysterical) situation, lies the situation on PvE servers, where the lack of people even attuned for heroic's makes getting a group together an hour long affair(even if you are a geared tank), often interrupted by people bitching about wait times, afks, etc. I've done the group thing on my warlock on a pvp server, it's not as bad as finding a group on a PvE server.

To be fair (and not that it impacts your overall point whatsoever) back in those days TM/SS was incredibly active on PvE servers as well. Even though we were outnumbered 3:1 or worse, we had a heck of a lot of fun defending the hill of doom from various bubble-consecrate waves for days on end. Well, actually, we'd lose the town pretty often and slink off until the alliance figured out that razing the place meant and end to fun and the cycle began anew.

TM/SS PvP was pretty silly but it certainly was fun too. It had massive flaws of course but I did enjoy it more than BG PvP at least.

Easily solved by disabling those servers as transfer targets. If they don't need more players, they don't need more PvP players either.