Hi Bekah. If you take a look at the post I quoted, the guy was taunting me to find at least one guild on a PVE server that was recruiting rogues that was at least working on Prince. Easily done.
Additionally, I did not dispute the fact that 75% of top guilds are on PvP servers - I meant to imply that having access to 25% of the top guilds is basically just as good. You're not going to fall ass-backwards into a BT guild, but you still have hundreds to choose from if you're willing to transfer.
And finally, I didn't mean that it would take two hours to find a BT guild on Skywall. I'm pretty confident that if I were to spend a solid 2 hours looking through the realm forums for PVE realms, I would find a recruiting thread for a guild that was a great fit. Barring that, in the past I've often just gone down the list on Progression threads and checked out the guild site of guilds that looked to be a good fit.
Incidentally, I haven't ever used or checked out the Guild Recruiting forum - it doesn't seem like the best way to go about finding a guild.
Having access to the other 25% is NOT as good, especially when you're horde and that number is even further reduced. The community of horde PvE guilds in BT is so small I could practically rattle off all the guilds on that list by memory.
I'm not sure if quite enough significance is being given to the truly casual playerbase in this thread. While some irritation and time lost is not a big deal to the average player on these boards, who have end-game goals and such, there's still a very substantial portion of the population who haven't even hit max level (and yes, people do still start playing WoW who have never played it before). Ganking is a very important to these people, and it may reflect a serious break in their WoW adventures, for example if they plan to log in for an hour and then have a good chunk of that be spent running back to their corpse.
Even if it's not necessarily rational, these events are significant to the truly casual player. Who make up a lot of Blizzard's revenue. I have five 70's and even more 60's, so I've endured my fair share of it and for the most part I consider it a non-issue, but it's definitely not a non-issue for these players. To me it's just a small overhead on leveling efficiency. But for players who, I guess, still see the magic and wonder in the leveling process, the idea of people getting a free ride on a PvE server will be significant, and will be crying on forums, and will constitute the vocal population that Blizzard has to answer to. Again, a population that is not necessarily rational about the time lost, because they view the leveling process as the game that they're paying for, not as a time sink / speed bump like the hardcore crowd does.
This, if anything, is the only real reason I can imagine being the cause of current policies. How true is this though? Is your average joe gamer even aware of that there is such a thing as server transfers? I honestly don't know. From a financial stand point, the amount of people driven to quit the game would have to be quite high to make it a bad deal for Blizzard.
There is one main reason why Blizzard don't want PvE to PvP transfers and thats simply because of the population balance, atm there's a fairly even balance of PvE and PvP servers and if a large chunk of PvE players suddenly want to go PvP where are they going to put them?
If this is the case and a larger portion of the player base would chose to play on PvP servers, then the number of PvP/PvE servers would need to be re-balanced. If they open the flood gates, and after a month 70% of players are on PvP servers, shouldn't Blizzard respond by merging/opening/closing servers until 70% are PvP? Shouldn't the balance of server rule sets reflect the desirability of each rule set among the players?
EDIT: To reiterate what many others have mentioned, I think a fair amount of people underestimate the differences in leveling (and playing at 70 for that matter) between high and low population servers. In my experience, these differences can be as significant as the PvP/PvE distinction.
Heh. Rolling a pvp server to begin with is what kept me in the game. A lot of our community and interaction on our server was made through world pvp. Whether its ganking in redridge, the roaming groups of STV, or the bloody fields of Hillsbard people, random people grouped with each other and enjoyed it. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't recognize a single alliance name if world pvp didn't exist.
I'm not sure why a lot of people here had an anti-pvp disposition assuming people were childish on those servers. Is competition really considered immature?
I don't think there is anyone with a real argument against opening this barrier up though.
I don't know if I'd say that it's kept me in the game but I will say it makes for a lot of added value. I mean, those of us who've been around remember "the days" in Hillsbrad and STV, but even levelling up from 60 to 70, my fiance and I kept coming head to head with this pair, a Shadowpriest and a Mage. I play an Elemental Shaman and he a Hunter. Somewhere along the lines someone killed the other and grabbed a named quest mob and it was back and forth as we powered to 70. It added real excitement and fun and we'd keep an eye out specifically for this pair before attempting any difficult quest, and would go out of our way to make their lives miserable if we saw them. The exchanges were fairly even, with us coming off somewhat better I think... but it was a great competition for us and I'm sure for them as well =)
And even nowadays... well... Some players in my guild, most notoriously a non-Raider now known as Reported, enjoy locking down the Elemental Plateau, which of course angered many alliance. As part of this, they started sending tells to people farming saying that the Plateau was a dangerous place, and offering "protection" for a small sum of gold (which to my knowledge no one ever paid them, but they found it funny to ask).
Having leveled a Priest and Rogue to 70 on a PVE server (Khadgar Horde which is extremely horde underpopulated at Oceanic Times) and a Hunter to 70 on a PVP Server (Frostmourne Oceanic Horde PVP). I would love to transfer my other Horde Characters to PVP if it were possible and I find playing on PVE servers outdoors outside of raiding extremely boring (no real danger at all) but I think these points need to be considered:
1. Many PVE Server players are not as good at pvp as they think. I think there is a more a risk of people transferring to PVP who are not ready or understand what it will/can be like and then even stopping cancelling due to the fact that they are not used to being situationally aware constantly watching their back etc.
2. Low level healers - If there was an option to level on PVE and transfer to PVP many people rolling healers could choose the easy option and lvl PVE then transfer leading to a shortage of healers at low levels on PVP servers.
3. Asshats - Many lvl 70s who Fail at PVE and PVP and are on a PVE server at the moment who have never experienced being ganked at 20-70 could transfer and lacking empathy (perhaps we need some kind of Voight-Kampff test to allow transfers ) for the people are leveling.
4. Death of the Horde on PVE Servers - Population imbalances are bad enough with many PVE realms 20-40% horde if they had an option to Transfer to a PVP server with the opposite ratio many would jump at that opportunity.
I'd love for PVE-PVP transfers to be implemented as I am continually frustrated on a PVE server which has a low horde population.
The 65 had the fastest to 60 of all my toons. (This thread is very similar to one I started in the BB about PvP, which is rather fascinating).
As for PvP players on PvP servers, that's just so wrong. I've come across some very good PvPers (hello 62 Rogue) and some absolutely shitful (68 warlock tried to gank me 3 times and I killed them each time)
I'm a long way from good at PvP. I play with an Oceanic ping (500+) which already puts me at a disadvantage. I'm a carebear at heart (I can't see the reason to annoy somebody who's going about their own business).
I can very confidently state that PvE and PvP servers are exactly the same in all respects for playing the levelling and raiding game.
I have spent more time running back to the Twin Emps room than I could possibly have ever lost due to corpse camping and or player deaths in PvP.
edit: When I've been ganked and camped - it's never been more than 2-3 corpse runs before I could find a bored 70 in /1 or using /who who was willing to come help out. It's an MMO - use your social skills.
Last edited by pewsey : 10/18/07 at 3:17 AM.
Pewsey has heard about tact and discretion, but tends to regard them much as children view vegetables.
There are only two kinds of MMOs: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody plays. (inspired by Bjarne Stroustrup)
Some of the most brutal camping goes on at TM, of course where you can witness people trying to rez on the flight master and click through the flight selection dialog before taking a level 70 arcane shot to the dome. It's terribly depressing to die several times while your mouse was fractions of a second from clicking on the UC FP and escaping to freedom.
All I can say is - they're idiots. My PvP alt was in TM when 20 alliance were carpetbombing the place.
I landed - died.
I then stood there and planned where to go. So I rezzed close to the 2 story house. Died.
I then rezzed upstairs and hearthed.
Total time wasted = 10 minutes.
If my hearth was down, I would have wasted an hour waiting at the worst - or tried another alternative.
Why anybody would try and rez and use the flight master is just completely beyond me. If my hearth was in TM. I would have rez hopped to the buildings to get behind the church (or into the trees). It still would have only taken me 10 minutes.
When there are that many people there, and that many NPC's - you only need to be slightly smarter than a slime mold to get out.
Was it frustrating ? Yeah, I just wanted to quest. No worse than today when I was farming netherstorm, turned away and fell off the world (sigh). The corpse run back there took longer than 10 minutes.
Pewsey has heard about tact and discretion, but tends to regard them much as children view vegetables.
There are only two kinds of MMOs: the ones people complain about and the ones nobody plays. (inspired by Bjarne Stroustrup)
All I can say is - they're idiots. My PvP alt was in TM when 20 alliance were carpetbombing the place.
Thing is that stuff happens a lot on PvE servers as well, there's still the constant shouts in /1 City for Xroads raids or TM/SS raids as well as bored idiots with nothing better to do that go to these places and gank the crap out of the npc's. The main difference is they have to goad the opposite faction into a response and cant just kill them, effect is still the same however with the lowbies left unable to quest properly. Likewise we got situations where a tauren would sit PvP enabled on top of the flight master in Lights Hope, so ofc people go to use it and right click the tauren enabling auto attack, getting themselves pvp flagged and more importantly ganked to crap by the guards.
In response to an earlier post, the reason why they don't just make all servers pvp enabled is simply because there are those who do not wish to play that playstyle and it would be unfair to force that onto them. At the same time however it's almost equally unfair to continue to restrict these type of transfers for the players who do want to see them, I know when I first started WoW on Day 2 of the EU launch that I didn't join a PvE server, I joined a "Normal" one and largely because a mate rolled there the day before me. And to echo the thoughts of many, had I known then what I know now there's no way I would have rolled on a PvE server.
[Additionally, I did not dispute the fact that 75% of top guilds are on PvP servers - I meant to imply that having access to 25% of the top guilds is basically just as good. You're not going to fall ass-backwards into a BT guild, but you still have hundreds to choose from if you're willing to transfer.
Not even close. Also, the benchmark of a "BT guild" is no longer a good indication of anything, for serious players especially. At this point a lot of mediocre guilds are in t6. If you want to be in a top end guild as alliance and you are on a US PvE server, you basically have 9 guilds in the top 100. As horde, you have only 4 guilds in the top 100. That's a total of 13/100 of the top guilds in the world - a pretty atrocious showing.
Sorry, leveling on a PvP server is not hard. Perhaps slightly slower, but mostly if you don't know how to stay out of trouble areas (come on, whining about STV when it's a horrible zone to begin with is rather pointless, isn't it? It's the universal example given EVERY TIME this topic comes up--even by CMs on the Blizz forums--so one might come to the conclusion rather quickly not to hang out solo in STV by now...) or stubbornly try to finish X quest when there are 12 people of the opposite faction hanging about.
Realistically, the raiding scene has dramatically changed with the server transfers becoming a normal way of finding a new guild. This creates a bit of an odd scenario where one player is basically limited in their choices of the guilds they can join, whereas another is not. That said, the other player has to seriously consider if the guild they are joining is worth losing their access to PvP servers in the future.
The rationale for lack of transfer ability at this point really is quite weak. If someone wants to blow cash and waste their transfer cooldown just to level on a PvE server, so be it. So few people probably care about this that it hardly seems worth creating a frustrating situation for many people who would like to transfer to another guild/server or join friends elsewhere.
Arguing anything in regard to leveling seems mostly pointless, simply because leveling is obviously the most trivial part of WoW to begin with. I mean, if bots can do it easily enough one certainly can't argue that it takes "player skill" to level. And, last time I checked, bots still leveled on PvP servers.
As a pvp player on an extremely low pop realm I think pve->pvp transfers could be the shot in the arm needed to stave of the apparent PR nightmare of realm mergers and closures. If they closely monitor the transferees to ensure server balance and limit the transfers to the low pop realms I can see this being a very good thing. IMO they should definitely restrict these players from simply transferring off in 3 months to avoid clogging up the larger pvp servers that don’t really need the added attendance.
I have three accounts with PvE characters that sit and collect dust. I play one character on a PvE server (BG9 / arena only-warrior) and I play one character on a PvP realm. (Warlock)
I rerolled this warlock to have access to the guilds on PvP servers now.
Opening up these type of transfers would allow me to transfer my 4 70's and 3 mid 60's that are on PvE servers to 1-2 accounts and merge them all on to the same server.
I don't see a downside to this other than population issues, which will have to be addressed regardless of transfers. PvE horde is just one in particular. I'll be the first to say that playing low pop just isn't the same as playing on a high pop server, the experience is far less satisfying and I think this applies to casuals and hardcore players alike.
Since Blizzard likes to keep the mindset of pvp servers as being a totally different leveling experience and that transferring from pve to pvp would bypass that truly engaging experience, what if they allowed you to do any type of server transfer so long as you had at least one level 58 or higher character on a PVP server? You could essentially roll a "pvp mule" that would meet the requirement and thus enjoy the true pvp leveling experience and then be able to transfer any character on that account to any server you wish.
Since Blizzard likes to keep the mindset of pvp servers as being a totally different leveling experience and that transferring from pve to pvp would bypass that truly engaging experience, what if they allowed you to do any type of server transfer so long as you had at least one level 58 or higher character on a PVP server? You could essentially roll a "pvp mule" that would meet the requirement and thus enjoy the true pvp leveling experience and then be able to transfer any character on that account to any server you wish.
This would work as well. I'm willing to bet that most people who want this feature are more interested in reviving old alts like I am or looking for a new guild than they are "omg 2 xfer to pvpzzz and be leet."
I'm currently leveling a paladin on a PvP server and I get ganked constantly. I don't know where all of this "I never get ganked on my PvP server" nonsense is coming from. My realm, Scilla, is very sparsely populated. Yes, the zones are dead; however, it only takes one high-level player to ruin your evening, especially during those levels when the quests are few and far between and your options for efficient leveling are very limited.
If it were possible, I would never level any character on a PvP server that I had any intention of getting to 70. Ever. I would always level on a PvE realm and rejoin my friends either at or near 70.
Having access to the other 25% is NOT as good, especially when you're horde and that number is even further reduced. The community of horde PvE guilds in BT is so small I could practically rattle off all the guilds on that list by memory.
It becomes even more constrained when you factor in different time zones/raid schedules and whatnot. It isn't quite so bad on Blackhand as we have 3 other guilds in BT/Hyjal horde-side with another working on Kael. However on most PVE servers, you are lucky to find one horde guild in BT/Hyjal. And as Sky mentioned, early BT/Hyjal is hardly bleeding edge anymore.
The only arguments I see against these transfers is that it is harder to level on PvP servers. While this may be true in varying degrees, leveling on any server type in this game is incredibly easy. It will become even easier in 2.3. I have probably engaged in as much or more world pvp on my pve server than your average pvp server players have. I spend alot of the time out farming or leveling alts flagged out of pure boredom. I can guarantee you that you are more likely to be ganked running around flagged on a PVE server than you are on a PVP server. Especially when the Allies have a 3:1 or more population advantage as they did on my old server. As such, I really don't care if I am on a PVE or PVP realm. I don't, however, see the necessity to bar such transfers. It would open alot of previously unavailable options to those on PVE realms, and would allow those on PVP realms to transfer to PVE without having to worry about not being able to go back. Everyone would get a larger recruiting pool. Make those transferring to PVP servers wear a Carebear tag if those who leveled there need to feel special in some way.
I'm currently leveling a paladin on a PvP server and I get ganked constantly. I don't know where all of this "I never get ganked on my PvP server" nonsense is coming from.
Well, it's probably not nonsense if most people are saying it. I personally have leveled two characters to 70, one on a pvp server and one on a pve. My druid on Terenas(pve) had 23 days played to get to 60. My priest on Dark Iron(pvp) had 7 or so to 70.
Now, my druid was my first character and she was a balance druid at launch (sad face) But obviously my priest didn't have many problems with ganking. I did have some trouble in the level 35-40 range (sup hillsbrad/arathi/stv) But once you get to 50 you move out of the range of scrub 70's ganking lowbies.
I rerolled (again, arg) to a rogue on a pvp server. Aside for some horribly geared 70's giving me problems in the hinterlands it has been very easy leveling. I can only imagine that with this leveling nerf people will be getting out of that gank "zone" much more quickly, and world pvp really will be a mostly max level experiance.
You can't call a planet Bob!
.
You were missing the () at the end of Feral Charge (Bear), this is necessary otherwise WoW thinks you're trying to cast Feral Charge Rank Bear.
Here's the thing for me though, each server is different. Even ignoring the pvp / pve split. If you play on a server that has a lot of low levels running instances and things, its easier to level. If your on a high pop server its easier to buy stuff on the AH, if your on an oceanic server it might be harder or easier to find groups at your playtimes.
Sure you get ganked on pvp and its result is a slowed leveling curve, and slowed stalled grouping farming at high levels. That time is just as easily lost by being on a low pop realm.
They have no problems with you going from low pop pvp -> high pop pvp, and vise versa, when there are speed differences between the two.
If its a power difference, should someone in T6 not be able to transerfer to say my server where the furthest progressed guild hasn't killed Kael? Not that I can see a reason why the T6 person would want to but, the option is there and how is that so different?
There is no good reason that I can see why the transfer shouldn't be allowed, or at very least allow the transfer back so the PvE is not the one way deathtrap that it is for xfers at the moment.
Doing a very quick glance at bosskillers.com (yea I know its not the most accurate) lists...
12 PVE Horde guilds have killed Illidan
39 PVP Horde guilds have killed Illidan
That gives you an idea of the degree of selection that a person has when trying to find a comparable guild, for whatever reason.
Way back in the day, I was in support of the no transfer to PVP servers. But at this point in the game, there really is no reason for it.
It's been mentioned in the thread already, but I think it would open up cross server recruiting much more for those who don't want to get locked in with the whole "one way trip" thing. I'm sure a lot of people would love to try out a PVE server for awhile, but know that if they do, there is no turning back.
Obviously the amount of people going to PVP servers would be substantial as well.
The key to any of this is to not open transfers *to* servers that are population capped.
I'm currently leveling a paladin on a PvP server and I get ganked constantly. I don't know where all of this "I never get ganked on my PvP server" nonsense is coming from. My realm, Scilla, is very sparsely populated. Yes, the zones are dead; however, it only takes one high-level player to ruin your evening, especially during those levels when the quests are few and far between and your options for efficient leveling are very limited.
If it were possible, I would never level any character on a PvP server that I had any intention of getting to 70. Ever. I would always level on a PvE realm and rejoin my friends either at or near 70.
Did you name your character "foxyprincess" ?
That's pretty much the only people I gank. If I see some gnome mage run past with a name like "fizzlebottom" or something, I let it slide. Or a warrior called "Zurcilous".
When I run into "Prettyheals" the night elf priest? Corpse camping that shit for 4 hours.
Blizzard has a knack for sticking to their original mindset. It doesn't have to be reasonable in our eyes or profitable in theirs; the way I look at it, inbetween patches and expansions, they want to keep -some- things in Warcraft concrete. They have been like this in all of their games. It's why you never saw a fifth faction in War3, a hero class later implemented in SC, or a "3-life-rez" deal after the griping about the Hardcore setting in D2.
I'm not saying that I agree with it, just that I was expecting it - after playing a Dwarf Hunter to Grand Marshal and doing all of my pre-expansion content on a PvE realm, I can starkly recall many a night where I said "wow, I should have agreed to Ysondre when it suggested it." While I'm thankful for all of the cool people I met on my PvE server, you just thrive for the simple but random action/frustration that ties into a PvP server once you've seen all that the game has to offer.
I do think it is a little ridiculous that you can't transfer to a PvE server and then return to your PvP server, though. With transferring being the risk that it is, you're basically setting yourself up for a reroll if you are denied to so-and-so's raiding guild.
The more I think about it the more ridiculous it seems. You can transfer from PvP to PvE and get trapped. In what dimension does that make good business sense? Trap your players on servers? Genius.
I guess it won't be so bad for the lazy people not wanting to level again after 2.3 comes out and leveling is faster. I would still love to have my pre-tbc character with all my collectible gear, To be honest I don't see blizzard opening it up without having a heavy restrictions. Its pretty much free money for blizzard if they can get the server population problems ironed out.
I played on PvP servers since vanilla and many at that and finally because of work I had to try and find a late night guild or early morning guild to xfer. I had friends with a super late night guild I could have xferred to but chose a avid guild on Shadowsong(PvE) So I chose it even realising being stuck there on PvE could suck. Well 1 week later out of pure luck that guild breaks up now Im stuck, guildless(no other late night guilds there), and above all bored out of my mind.
Now the more important thing I'd like to add is World PvP wise I have gotten WAAYYY more PvP since being on this pve server and yes its my fault if I accept but seriously the world pvp there is 10x more interesting and active then the last 2 pvp servers I was playing on.
And as a late night player plz god put in PvE to PvP so we at least have a higher probability of someday being in a raiding guild....
10/17/07, 11:15 PM
Similar Threads
