As for your MT healers I can suggest something that has worked wonders for us.
We use 3-4 MT healers which consist of 1 tree druid, 1 shaman or priest for inspiration and 2 paladins (both paladins wearing cap or close to cap SR). Healing the MT is rather trivial other than dealing with the silences so having a healer or 2 able to resist 90% of the silences is a major bonus. Hope this helps.
The main reason for having melee on Doomguards is that you can avoid anyone getting RoF by keeping everyone out of range (he doesn't cast it on the MT afaik).
I looked through this thread, and I see references to RoF having a max range and outranging it now, this will be a huge help. However, I didn't see anyone actually giving a range for it.
I looked up the ability on wowhead, and the max range is 40 yards for Unquenchable Flames (the dot applied from RoF, weird that it would even have a range), but could not find RoF. I'm assuming the range is ~30 yards if everyone but shadow priests can out range it?
I looked through this thread, and I see references to RoF having a max range and outranging it now, this will be a huge help. However, I didn't see anyone actually giving a range for it.
I looked up the ability on wowhead, and the max range is 40 yards for Unquenchable Flames (the dot applied from RoF, weird that it would even have a range), but could not find RoF. I'm assuming the range is ~30 yards if everyone but shadow priests can out range it?
In practice I think we've found the "safe" OOR to be 35+ yrds as even standing at max range (30 yrds) the arcane mages can't avoid the RoF. So basically all ranged outside of arcane mages and shadow priests can outrange it.
What happens when Azgalor tries to cast RoF on someone that is out of range? Will it just fail and nothing will happen, or will he re-pick a target that is in range? If it is the latter, wouldn't it mean that those that cannot out-range RoF (spriest, melee, arcane mages) would just be constantly running out of RoF on top of them?
There is no failure when trying to cast on someone out of range, he simply selects a target from the available targets within range. If only the MT is in range, then he will eat the rain of fire/unquenchable flames dot.
Yes, any class that cannot outrange it has to move unless you have a lot of faith in your healers and their ability to resist silence.
Wow, I didn't think he was that much of a wuss, 3 to 5x Thrall's damage is enough reason to use him on Doomguards and pull Azgalor to the Warriors.
There is the non-trivial advantage that Thrall can actually live through the RoF, while the cows will get slaughtered rather soon, so just tank him by Thrall and drag the cows to him after a while.
There is the non-trivial advantage that Thrall can actually live through the RoF, while the cows will get slaughtered rather soon, so just tank him by Thrall and drag the cows to him after a while.
How do you drag the cows to him? We usually have the boss pulled to Thrall the Taurens Warriors on the Doomguards. We would love to have all of them on the boss really, but can't find a better way to get all involved other than to run the boss to both camps.
There is light at the end of the tunnel.
The only problem is, it's often an incoming train.
How do you drag the cows to him? We usually have the boss pulled to Thrall the Taurens Warriors on the Doomguards. We would love to have all of them on the boss really, but can't find a better way to get all involved other than to run the boss to both camps.
The tank tanking the doomguards brings the doomguards close to the boss, and another tank usually a feral druid, picks up the next doomguard and tanks it away from the cows.
When the mob the cows are beating on him die, the cows go for azgalor.
Make sure the doomguards never get close to the healer, and there is no point doing this before 50%, since they will just die from rof aoe quickly.
Thanks for all the different replies guys. More specifics about MT healing. I notice that many people mention that they only use SR cape/neck on the healers and not a full SR set. Is silence and MT death an issue from this? How many healers do people generally have on the MT and which classes? We currently have 4 MT healers (2 resto druids, 2 paladins) and things can get very hairy as far as tank health on a silence where 3/4 get silenced.
Also I noticed someone mention a bear tank. This reminded me of a different post somewhere where people mentioned that Azgalor like archimonde is not able to land crushing blows? Anyone else have any thoughts on this?
Our bears worked better for sure, although it's certainly doable with warriors. As far as MT healing - we use very tightly focused assignments of 2 or 3 people per healer; when none of those people are taking damage the healer stays on the MT. We started getting good SR gear around the time we moved to this strat so maybe that's not the whole picture but it's worked very well for us, he's been a 1-shot every week since then I think.
I cannot speak of the fight with SR gear, but without any SR gear, we two shotted him our first time ever trying him with melees on the doomguard, and one shotted him next week without the tank every getting close to dying.
We use 5 healers on the main tank, 1 on doomguards, 1 watching shadowpriests since shadowpriests cannot always avoid the RoF. We use a bear main tank, and a protection warrior that intercepts in to put up thunderclap/demo shout then runs out, and intervenes the bear if the bear gets low
Takes a while to kill, but it is perfectly controlled, and our bear never gets particularly low. The best part about this strategy is that healing is not stretched at all, the tank is getting a lot of heals, and absolutely nobody except the main tank is taking any damage at all, except shadowpriests getting a rain of fire sometime.
Our guild has had some issues with Az, not so much killing him as getting to close to enrage, and having to many silly RoF's deaths, almost always wiping at least once every week. Our original strat had him tanked at the cows, and having the doomguards kited to Thrall and killed there, having melee mostly on the doomguards too. After a wipe this week, we switched sides.
The change was much more then expected. Not only did Thrall do decent damage on him, he really, really really took a lot of the RoF's. So much so, that we couldn't really believe it. Was that a rather zany lucky streak, or is there some mechanic in place that has NPC's in general, or thrall in particular (or perhaps people who have the RoF debuff) targetted more often? Because if I had to guess, Thrall was under RoF at least 70% of the casts. No players died to RoF, tank didn't get low, kill was with 2min35 to spare, in an unoptimized raid (3 soulstones and 2 battleresses, no shaman ankhs, 3 people dead from RoF's at the end).
Were we lucky on not having the cows run over to the the boss? (We had no resisted dooms)
Thrall was at about 30% when Az died, so i guess if you get close to the enrage timer, he'd be around 5-10%. We did take special care to not get him into the cleave though.
This WWS link shows Thrall's DPS was only recorded for a little under a minute while your recording for the Tauren Warriors is more like 5 minutes.
Perhaps Thrall was out of your combat log range for a good chunk of the fight.
Inconclusive at best.
Hmm, good point, not sure why it worked like that.
Maybe they were out of range? I check our last parse and Thrall wasn't even in it, but he was defently dpsing it the full time.
a trick which isnt mentioned in tactics:
if your ranged (dps+healers)stand out to 35y + they will not get rain of fire. basicly u just need to keep alive the tank and the melees. players who can nuke only <35y go to a different position and run in out when rof comes.
sr gear is VERY important for casters (healers + dps), it makes thing much more easier.
We two shot this boss. Second try we used a Feral Tank. He avoided over 55% of Azgalors attacks to a tune of like 177 dodges. This fight was a complete joke. Tanked the doomguards at Thrall Azgalor at the tauren camp. At about 50% Thrall decided on his own to join the fight. We had everyone on the boss at that point and just had two tanks off tank the adds for the duration.
We had our first kill on him yesterday, it's the boss we thought was hardest til now actually (harder than teron and ros imo). Think we had something like 6-10 trys on this guy. Reason I think it's harder is due to the stupid trash and how it fucks with your focus. We didn't really give ourselves any breaks though.. We went with:
7 healers (3 shamans, 2 priests, 2 paladins). Some of them wore full SR I think.
1 Prot warrior, 3 ferals cause we were one caster short (tanks/dps).
2 mages
3 warlocks
2 shadowpriests
1 enhancement
2 DPS warriors
1 hunter
3 rogues.
When someone got doomed they ran over to thrall where two ferals were offtanking them with Thrall and his gang of merry hoodlums battered them. Azgalor was tanked away from them (no NPCs alive anyways). All dps on Azgalor, none on doomguards. When melee got ROF they ran out the back where two of the shamans were standing so they could get chainhealed rather quickly, FR would probably be preferable. Kill was anything but smooth but he went down. Having NPCs help would be much better either by having thrall on azgalor or having the taurens on him. FR on melee would help. More SR on healers would help and also having a restodruid would probably be very very nice here.
Having revisited this fight after a rather easy first kill we had quite a bit of trouble, to the tune that the raid we hoped to kill him and then take a look on archimond was spent relearning and beating him again. In the end the killer was often the fact that we had no dps on the dooms other than the taurens, with thrall and entire raid dps on boss. Sooner or later the doomguards would chain stun the doom tank and taurens to the point that due to absolutely no dodge/parry during stuns he would die, not to mension that it reduced aggro build over that many mobs so taurens could take aggro and die to doom melee as well.
The end solution was to get the trolls in on the doomguards. This was actually not too difficult, as it just required that after MDing the second doom to the doom tank as per, I then procceded to walk as close to the trolls as possible and then stole aggro back which even with cripple allowed me to kite the doom to the trolls though I then took a stun just before FD and died. I figured that if the tank used a hamstring on the doom I was to pull off him I would have plenty of space to get to trolls and FD back to tank. The trolls and tuarens where then ample dps to clear all dooms without ever letting there be more than 2 at a time.
I choose to pull the second doom rather than the first as I guessed that the first doom would be too hard to pull off the tuarens if the tank let me try to take aggro, though may try it next time.
We tank Az with a bear by the warriors, and the Doomguards at Thrall with a prot. All of our dps is on Az, even the melee, who do have to frequently run out to bandage. DPS on the Doomguards is handled by Thrall, his immediate NPC companions, and a patrol of another 6-7 NPCs that we try hard to keep alive through the trash. With all those NPCs (10+ most attempts), the old Doomguard is always nearly dead when the next one spawns, without investing any of our own DPS on them.
The tauren used to get pulled to Az by the silence, but this seems not to happen since a patch or two ago. Now sometimes they sit idle the whole fight, although we usually try to get them pulled to the Doomguards by having the Doomguard tank start with the tauren. Then he just drags the guard with the tauren to Thrall once it spawns; subsequent guards are spawned at Thrall.
I don't think our healers wear much SR at all; necks and cloaks, maybe.
We've had Azgalor on farm for some time now, but after getting our first kill, we struggled a bit attempting to duplicate. We tried getting the trolls in on the doomguards, or on Azgalor himself. We tried killing Azgalor at the Tauren camp and at Thrall's ramp. We tried melee in (with FR), and melee on adds instead. We spend a good number of attempts trying to get the Troll camp properly involved, without improving the reliability of our kills.
Our last couple kills have been very clean, and we settled on killing Azgalor at the Tauren camp and Doomguards at Thrall. Melee is currently assigned to Doomguard cleanup, and this frees up additional healing, giving us greater ability to deal with the occasional silence or healer doom. Healers are assigned to OT or MT healing duty, but are positioned between the two so they can help out in case an issue arises.
10/24/07, 2:33 PM
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