I'm looking at : http://wowjutsu.com/vault/raids/bt/illidan/
Scroll down the list, and see the warglaives (32837), and see : [Warglaive of Azzinoth]
* 31x Mainhand, owned by 100% rogues(100% combat spec), 0% warriors
* 28x Offhand, owned by 100% rogues(100% combat spec), 0% warriors

Now, as a rogue i obviously wholeheartedly agree with this, however i'm curious behind the reasoning that other guilds use.
Both weapons being 109 DPS, surely any fury warrior would be producing massive ammounts of saliva at the mere thought of owning these, or not?

Are there better alternatives for warriors?
Is the upgrade for warriors very small compared to rogues? (1.4 sec offhand with huge amounts of haste is just.. insane)
Is the increased threat simply better managed by your rogues? Would warriors have threat issues?
Do warriors prefer 2 weapons of equal speed due to flurry mechanics? Such as [Syphon of the Nathrezim]
Are all endgame warriors using 2H MS spec with [Cataclysm's Edge] ?

As a rogue, swapping the Talon+S2 sword -> 2x warglaives shows about 163 DPS increase according to http://rogue.raidcal.com/ (post haste nerf)
What would be the estimate increase a warrior could expect?

I'm curious, if your guild has managed to defeat illidan, why have the rogues been given the Warglaive and not your fury warrior?
Or rather, why have no warriors bothered to roll or pay dkp for this item?

That statistics ought to be wrong. First hand knowledge: The World of Warcraft Armory

But i agree on the general idea of threat-capping for the warriors pre-2.3. The rogues aggro-dump is just far more efficient, you dont have to rebuff them after

The question about offhand speed. In Theory, in most cases 2 of the 3 flurry hits will be aten by the offhand. This can be controversly discussed if its bad due to the smaller damage range, lower crits, proc benefit etc.

For rogues its perfect, fast offhand, slow mainhand. You get a really good offhand for combat potency proc and a slow mainhand for sinister strike or hemo.

From pure pve view, the gain is bigger for a rogue than a warrior. But the decision is rather being made by the Guild Master / Raid Leader or DKP-System in most cases.


edit: Great, he is in 2hand pvp gear.

At first glance the set does look to be mainly aimed at rogues due to the fact that SS or hemo spamming requires a very slow mainhand, 2.8 being about the slowest you can get at that level.
And the 1.4 speed offhand would produce crazy amounts of Combat Potency, or poison procs.
PPM effects are also increased when using a slow weapon.
As far as i know rogues are also more dependant on spamming instant attacks with their mainhand than warriors are, is heroic strike still used as a rage dump?

The reason i mentioned flurry was because (as mentioned by one of our warriors) supposedly flurry can produce 4 hasted hits instead of 3, if both your weapons are of equal speed.
Obviously i can't test this, but that'd mean 1 hit would have 30% extra speed/dps.
Where with a 1.4 vs 2.8 speed weapon that would only occur half the time.
Perhaps a fury warrior could give insight into this mechanic?

Apparantly 1 rogue legendary wasn't enough so they added 2 more. Yes I'm a bitter old cow this morning.

I think threat capping is a big issue in this. With guilds gearing up and waiting for the Sunwell to grab world firsts they are trying to optimise their raid as best posssible. A rogue with these can do the maximum potential DPS without risk of pulling aggro whereas a Warrior may struggle pre 2.3. But as said plenty of warriors have them too, I think its mainly guild mechanics.

With the Imp. Zerker Stance change in 2.3, threat capping might not be as much of an issue, but with the DW Whirlwind change, slow/slow might be that much more preferable for Warriors.

For us it was partly threat issues (our fury warrior at the time was virtually always threat capped rather than damage capped) and that the rogue who got them has 100% attendance while our DPS warriors have never been the most reliable bunch (as shown by both the DPS warriors who were raiding with us quitting since the first illidan kill). I would've liked to have seen the warglaives on a tauren though.

The rogue who got them is also guild/raid leader, so he kinda deserved it anyway. We don't use a DKP system, so there was no mucking around in that respect.

I would guess threat->damage and that rogues (in general) do more damage total is the normal reason why there's a lot more rogues around with them than warriors.

I think you are overestimating the value of 10 % more threat reduction. The reasons rogues don't pull aggro is vanish, not having 29 % passive aggro reduction. A warrior going all out (-> spamming cleave/heroic strike) will still hit a cap pretty quickly unless you support your MT beyond what is usual (at least to my knowledge most raids don't put a shaman in the MT group nowadays for example).

As said above, fury warrior would kill himself with those. That is the only reason you see rogues exist Because warriors are threat capped.

10% less threat or rather 7% as 0.7x0.7=51% while it was 0.8x0.7=44% before, will not help that much. Yes there is also buff to devastate etc. but what dps warrior would really need is aggro reset - but then you could as well delete rogues from game.

Probably a rogue can benfit from the glaives a hunch more, I would rather want a slow-offhand as a dw-warrior and then its the treath-issue, and sometimes you might be bored with dw and go 2hander. Personally if I was a rogue and a warrior got the glaives in my guild, I would want him to maintain to raid as much as before and use the glaives.

Ok if the person is a hardcore dualwielder no problems, but just to see him/her get the glaives and then go spec 2h slam would just seems like an insult to me.

There were a lot of rogues with thunderfury. Hell, there were some PALADINS with thunderfury (and even a couple of hunters...). Just because it's stupid doesn't mean it's not an option. There's also the fact that there are a number of guilds which got one thunderfury for the MT, then threw any more bindings they got at rogues (I know of a couple that did this). There's also a few which had unreliable MT's but reliable rogues, so the rogue(s) got the bindings. Then there's also DKP systems.

It was a sick DPS weapon, and rogues could handle the threat most of the time. I kinda wish they'd just scrap legendarys in total and replace them with normal epics that just look damned cool but are legendary in status (so the warglaives would look the same but be 100 DPS with a less sick proc). It would reduce the amount of whining about which classes get them, and let them be status symbols (see the other thread about status symbols). It would also let the drop rate be a bit higher, as at the moment it's a complete lottery - the whole Atiesh system was nice imo.

And finally there were people that got the bindings before anyone knew how good a tanking weapon Thunderfury would be. I can remember the many discussions I had with random people about how weak a legendary Thunderfury was when the basic stats were known but the item wasn't attainable yet since BWL wasn't released yet, very few people at the time had anticipated how good the proc was.