The Art of Making Gold - Page 114

Mideci · 05/12/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by Feist-Mok

Season 4 is going to unleash a flood of Season 2 gear onto the market, and I doubt the people rocking welfare prices Season 2 are going to want to go to the expense of gemming it up with epics, seeing as the whole point of collecting it is to make it easier to get S3/S4 in arenas.

And while some people are farming S2 in the hope of getting S3/S4, this is not all that gigantic group, and certainly not a realistic group.

I mean most casual arena players have S3 gear at this point given the length of season 3. I stopped arena-ing a while back and have 4/5 season 3 on both my characters. I was never on a particularly highly rated team. I should note also that I did bank some points for quite a while after getting all that gear in case S4 proved interesting for whatever reasons with regard to PVE gear (the main reason I arena personally). If someone like myself could fill out the character panel and point bank that easily, the reality of the honor grinders competing in S4 is farfetched.

I say this because I've at least been in arena a good deal and know the lay of the land. I know where my ceiling is. I'm never going to compete for the high-rated pieces and believe most people won't. There's going to be a serious driving out of bad arena players in S4 and the people that haven't competed in arena before are going to find climbing the ladder to be nigh impossible. People farming S2 gear in battlegrounds in my mind fit that category in spades, and are very likely to gem the gear out as it's their endgame gear, especially since a lot of them are sitting on gold.

I mean of course people in every group fit into every category. Some BG gear grinders will make it to 2K in arena S4 and some of them will buy green gems, but the notion that none of them will buy epic gems is as silly as the notion that many of them will ever get any of the rated S4 gear above 1650.

Angeron · 05/12/08, 3:01 PM

The market for (non-spinel) epic gems exists on the day the gem vendor opens and the day after. People's eyes are bigger than their wallets and everyone gets excited when shiny new purples get released so they buy them at rediculous prices. After that period, spinels and pyrestones tend to be the only things that sell for a mark-up over vortexes. Hellscream's vendor has been open for over a week at this point and so far the spike/crash of prices has remained true to the prediction I made weeks ago albeit on a slightly shorter schedule.

Look at the market for any materials during a major item-content patch release and you'll see a similar trend(with the exception of primals): major price spike followed by a crash to pre-patch prices or below. The difference here is simply that a public supply of red/orange/purple gems did not exist before 2.4. Pre-vendor opening I could sell pyrestones for 400 and spinels for 400. On patch-day I sold spinels for 600 and pyrestones for 500, two days later spinels are 375 and pyrestones are going for 250. Obviously playing the AH waiting game will net you bigger profits from impatient buyers, but the number of people with badge stocks over 200 who have already bought there own pvp gems means supply for trade-channel selling is high enough to keep prices low.

Wadadli2424 · 05/12/08, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Feist-Mok

Season 4 is going to unleash a flood of Season 2 gear onto the market, and I doubt the people rocking welfare prices Season 2 are going to want to go to the expense of gemming it up with epics, seeing as the whole point of collecting it is to make it easier to get S3/S4 in arenas.

this is a verry good point. Thank you. My question is how many of each gem type are you guys saving for season 4.

currently i have the following gems.

5x Living Ruby (40g uncut and aboug 55 cut on my server)
6x Nighteseye (25-27g uncut and about 35g cut on my server)
12x Talasite (6-8g uncut and about 15g cut on my server)
13x Dawnstone (20g uncut and about 30g cut on my server)
9x Star of Elune (18g uncut and about 25g cut on my server)
11x Noble Topaz (30g uncut and about 40g cut on my server)
2x Purified Shadow Pearl (sell for around 45g on my server)
9x Brilliant Glass(And getting 2 more everyday most of the time)
12x Mystic Dawnstone (I bought them for 10g a piece from some idiot, sell for around 22g a piece)
now most of these I can get cheaper than the prices I listed if I am patient, which I am. So my question is How many of each should I have saved up for the when season 4 hits considering current prices on my server.

Also Currently Golden Spellthread sell for about 350g and Runic spellthread for about 300g and the mats for each cost about 75gish below the actual sale price. Primal mana around 11-14g on my server and Primal Life around 21g with nethers at 50g (although I have 4 that I have gotten myself from heroics). So do you guys think I should make some and then save them for season 4 or I should just take the money now. Because I feel like our current prices are pretty high so I dont know how much more spellthreads will sell for come season 4, as I did not take part in the season 3 boom so I dont know how crazy prices get. Do you guys think spellthreads prices will rise enough to make it worthwile to wait or should i just make the ez gold now?

Thank you I love this thread

savernon · 05/12/08, 4:27 PM

I have always had spellthreads sell for a profit over the bare mats prices, because it requires a couple things. One, the person has to be a tailor, and then they happen to have to be exalted with Scryers (or Aldor for healing thread). Unless there are a dearth of mats on the AH, you can always buy more primals / nethers to make more spellthreads. As far as the gems, you just have to research which cuts are good pvp cuts, and then watch those.

I don't think that S4 is going to be nearly as much of a price spike as S3, because of how many pieces require ratings, and the ratings themselves are graduated. When S3 hit, people could buy a new neck, wrist, belt, boots, pants, chest, etc which all needed some gemming / enchanting.

As a side note, why are you saving the brilliant glass? <-- Edit: Duh, I'm retarded and thought the brilliant glass containing epic gems was live already. Ignore.

• Chicken · 05/12/08, 4:31 PM

Originally Posted by savernon

As a side note, why are you saving the brilliant glass?

Items that contain other items get "rerolled" when a patch changes their possible contents, and with next patch making it so Brilliant Glass can contain epic gems it's a pretty good idea to save them up until then.

Vandermonde · 05/13/08, 1:45 PM

Void shatter does in fact still have a 25 cast time and no create all, so take this into account if you're buying voids in any significant numbers with plans of converting them at a profit.

arison · 05/13/08, 3:12 PM

Originally Posted by Wadadli2424

well I opened the 11 brilliant glass I saved up today and got 1 pyrestone so I am happy

Did your other glasses change? I had a few banked and there was no change in them whatsoever. Do you recall what the stone was that turned into a pyrestone? My first thought was this was an indication they "fixed the glitch" with respect to the loot table of items like this changing.

Phalanx · 05/13/08, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by arison

Did your other glasses change? I had a few banked and there was no change in them whatsoever. Do you recall what the stone was that turned into a pyrestone? My first thought was this was an indication they "fixed the glitch" with respect to the loot table of items like this changing.

I must have had an incorrect understanding of how this worked, but I thought it only rolled once (ie. the first time your right-click), so it would be best to wait until the loot table was changed before opening. That's why I created about 10 Brilliant Glasses and didn't open any of them until today.

I got one Lionseye.

Grungo · 05/13/08, 4:28 PM

Originally Posted by Phalanx

I must have had an incorrect understanding of how this worked, but I thought it only rolled once (ie. the first time your right-click), so it would be best to wait until the loot table was changed before opening. That's why I created about 10 Brilliant Glasses and didn't open any of them until today.

I got one Lionseye.

I believe that *is* how it works, and that's now, *after* it has been fixed. Before, it would reroll for what was inside a container whenever the server reset, leading to people checking their shattered sun supplies, and hoarding any that didn't have a badge in them (until after a reset, where they'd get another shot). It was fixed so that once you saw what was inside the container, that's what you would get, whether you actually looted it immediately or waited a month for it.

Cranch · 05/13/08, 6:40 PM

Regarding the Void Crystal/Large Prismatic Shard economy: today on my server the VC's are 37g and the LPS's are 21g (a drop from yesterday's 26g.) Enchanters are also offering to do VC->LPSx2 for a tip. Interestingly enough the VC prices have been stable at 33-37g for a couple of weeks, so the patch seems to have affected only the LPS prices. I was hoping that the VC prices would rise to match LPS x 2 minus a bit. We'll see if that happens after a while (there's no reason to dump VC's now I believe.)

What happened on your server?

Wadadli2424 · 05/13/08, 7:19 PM

my server VC prices have risen to around 45g from 35g and LPS are still around 25g per although I sold all of mine this morning using trade channel for around 21g because I do not have faith in this lasting very long

Torq · 05/13/08, 9:09 PM

I'm not 100% sure that the "rerolling" of loot is "fixed."

I had 7 or 8 (don't exactly remember, and this is why this is entirely suspect) Brilliant Glass, but I organized them by what they originally contained. When I popped them all open today, it appears that one of my Noble Topaz became a Dawnstone and my only Star of Elune became a Nightseye.

So it looks like some stuff changed, even after peeking.

Elut · 05/13/08, 9:16 PM

Brilliant Glass is definitely rerolling.

I opened 15 today, all of which I had looked into previously. One had become an epic Sapphire.

Interestly, none of them had Rubies prepatch (I had looted those already) and none of had turned into Rubies. I don't have notes, but the distribution of rare gems seemed similar to what it had been.

If you imagine the likely hypothesis that the loot table just had a few rare entries added to it, but the "roll" was not effected, this may make sense. Since the table is not that different, it leads to the following unverifiable conclusions:

1) (Likely) Most BGlasses would have the same gem they used to.
2) (Likely) The chance some gem of changing to another rare would be similar to the chance of of changing to an epic.
3) (Speculative) Only one type of gem (maybe 2), would have a small chance of going epic. This assumes the epics are all in a group on the new loot table.

If these were true, I was wrong to pre-loot the Rubies (most would have stayed as Rubies), and I was lucky that they were not the only gems that could become epics.

There is also a 4th unverifiable conclusion:

4) (Grossly speculative) The gem that could go epic would probably be the first or last alphabetically - Dawnstone or Talasite. I don't take this one too seriously - there are too many other ways to sort data.

EDIT: Torq's post right before mine supports conclusions 1 & 2, and refutes 4.

tedv · 05/13/08, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by Elut

Brilliant Glass is definitely rerolling.

I opened 15 today, all of which I had looked into previously. One had become an epic Sapphire.

Interestly, none of them had Rubies prepatch (I had looted those already) and none of had turned into Rubies. I don't have notes, but the distribution of rare gems seemed similar to what it had been.

If you imagine the likely hypothesis that the loot table just had a few rare entries added to it, but the "roll" was not effected, this may make sense. Since the table is not that different, it leads to the following unverifiable conclusions:

1) (Likely) Most BGlasses would have the same gem they used to.
2) (Likely) The chance some gem of changing to another rare would be similar to the chance of of changing to an epic.
3) (Speculative) Only one type of gem (maybe 2), would have a small chance of going epic. This assumes the epics are all in a group on the new loot table.

If these were true, I was wrong to pre-loot the Rubies (most would have stayed as Rubies), and I was lucky that they were not the only gems that could become epics.

There is also a 4th unverifiable conclusion:

4) (Grossly speculative) The gem that could go epic would probably be the first or last alphabetically - Dawnstone or Talasite. I don't take this one too seriously - there are too many other ways to sort data.

EDIT: Torq's post right before mine supports conclusions 1 & 2, and refutes 4.

I had something similar happen. I opened 20 glass, none of which were rubies and topaz, and only one was a nightseye before the patch. All the gems I got afterwards were in roughly the same color distribution, no rubies or topaz, except I got two epic gems (a pyrestone and an amethyst). That supports the 10% rate other people have seen too. So that implies the loot table was changed such that 10% of the time it picks something from the epic gem table instead, and the other 90% of the time it uses the same standard "rare gem" loot table.

Panics · 05/13/08, 9:41 PM

Just adding some data to the Brilliant Glass discussion.

I had 9 Brilliant Glass stored, all of which I had peeked into. All 9 of my rare gems remained unchanged, and I did not recieve any epic gems.

In my case, nothing changed, even after peeking.

seqo · 05/13/08, 9:41 PM

Void Crystal and Large Prismatic prices haven't moved at all on my server, at present. Jubei'thos being Oceanic may affect this, but the market seems to be flooded with Void's. Given I have roughly 5 stacks of Voids that I'm looking to unload, I'm seriously hoping this changes.

What are other people's experiences so far in this market?

As an aside, Nethercleft/Cobra are selling very well for me, at substantial markup (Roughly 200g profit over material prices) - even taking into account the Personal Rating introduction for Legs on S4 gear. I'm yet to notice a swing in Meta Gem prices, but Epic Gems have actually dived several hundred gold for the vast majority.

Angeron · 05/14/08, 4:28 AM

Since the rerolling mechanics of brilliant glass and other similar items(curious crates) has already been confirmed in several previous threads regarding loot mechanics( as well as anecdotal evidence here), I think we can stop shitting up this thread with reroll drop results and start analyzing the market effects.

Anecdotal confirmation of 10% drop rate on epic gems. Still a 23 hour cooldown, one extra epic gem every ten days in which you can farm (casually) 3-5 gems; I don't see this as having any significant effect on current prices. It seems to be far more of a JC perk than a true market factor.

jacce · 05/14/08, 4:58 AM

10 brilliant glass, i got 2 epic gems: Crimson Spinel and Empyrean Sapphire, and some of the talasite ones changed to Noble Topazes

but most of them didnt change at all.

Wadadli2424 · 05/14/08, 8:36 AM

Something I have found to be a decent goldmaker is Thick Felsteel Necklace. I can normally sell 1 if I list it for 48 Hours allowing me to sell about 3 a week, and I sell them at 75g Per and mats cost around 15-18g on my server which is a nice 55g profit.

Also on my server Epic Gems are Sell around 400g-450g Per except Green and Yellow gems which are around 300g. So if it is 10% for Brilliant Glass thats a nice little perk for JCing

.

Cranch · 05/14/08, 11:46 AM

Getting closer now on my server: 39-40g VC, 20-21g LPS. So there's no point in putting VC's on the AH, since I'll make slightly more by splitting them and selling them (slowly.) Also, since I still enchant, I'm actually better off holding on to VC's only since then I can do the VC-using enchants from my mats.

Bismar · 05/14/08, 1:03 PM

As far as I can tell, the VC and LPS market has not yet stabilized. Yes, we see a lot of LPS up for reasonable prices and VC up for LPS times 2, and we think all is at it should be.

The problem seems to be that there is massively more LPS supply than anyone needs right now. These LPS at 20g are simply not selling. Obviously some of the major stores of VC are now being unloaded, and simply put, no one needs that many LPS. I don't really see where the floor is. If the flood continues, LPS could go to 10g.

Potentially this is a one time supply shock, and after a couple months, and with another gear patch, LPS will become scarcer again.

Edit: Obviously some are selling, but more are being listed faster than those that are selling, creating dropped prices over time. Same goes for the VC's.

zoombini · 05/14/08, 1:11 PM

EDIT: removed for offtopicness - zoom

◊ Kaubel · 05/14/08, 4:58 PM

To everyone in general:

We don't care what gem prices are on your server or how many you've recently looted. Discuss unique ways to make gold or DON'T FUCKING POST.

magnetic · 05/14/08, 6:43 PM

Primal Shadow is in very high demand (for those guilds that are butting up to Mother after 2.4), hovering arround 45g per primal. I can see shadows staying high for a month or two more, if not indefinately.

Question: I am looking for the best place for a solo mage to farm Rugged Leather. Ideally I want to aoe as many things at once as possible.

My first thoughts were: ubrs the Rookery (are the hatchlings skinable?), DM North dogs in the courtyard with unlimited instances this would be very very good-with 2 stacks per clear taking about 3-4 minutes: or is winterspring really the best over all option?

Thick & Rugged leather sells very very well, presumably all the people re-rolling profs for drums.

• astearns · 05/14/08, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by magnetic

Thick & Rugged leather sells very very well, presumably all the people re-rolling profs for drums.

Rugged Leather sells even better made into Wicked Leather Headbands and disenchanted. I sell Greater Eternal Essences and Illusion Dust at absurd prices with very little competition.