The demand will be fairly large. Don't forget that the season 2 gears will be available for purchase come season 4 and lots of ppl who have been farming honor points will come to the market for gems, enchants etc.
Good point I keep forgetting that.
I think people underestimate Brilliant Glass as a way of making money...I can normally get all the gems I need for between 1-2g sometimes even cheaper (especially because my JCing buddy has over 400 of each green so he sells me for like 50s apiece). Then you cut and sell whateve you get and it can be about a 40g profit depending on what you paid and what you got. Also there is also the added bonus of a maybe an epic which on my server is an ez 350-400g.
On this same topic if I keep my brilliant glass with bad gems in them until next patch will they get re-rolled? Or did they only get re-rolled before because of the changes made to their contents?
I think people underestimate Brilliant Glass as a way of making money...I can normally get all the gems I need for between 1-2g sometimes even cheaper (especially because my JCing buddy has over 400 of each green so he sells me for like 50s apiece). Then you cut and sell whateve you get and it can be about a 40g profit depending on what you paid and what you got. Also there is also the added bonus of a maybe an epic which on my server is an ez 350-400g.
On this same topic if I keep my brilliant glass with bad gems in them until next patch will they get re-rolled? Or did they only get re-rolled before because of the changes made to their contents?
Again, that has to be server specific. On Stormrage, cut uncommons are worth 7g in reds and yellows for sure and I purples and blues have some decent value in the 3-4g range. Orange and green, perhaps less so, but let's talk about the real opportunity cost either way.
You are spending 18 uncommons to get the brilliant glass. Even to get the reds and yellows, you are looking at spending on the order of 20g, i.e. the "opportunity cost" or what you could immediately dump them for. Add in the other 12 stones and it's certianly 30g to make brilliant glass. You have the following actual outcomes:
15%, each of dawnstone, talasite, nightseye, star of elune, living ruby, noble topaz (I'm not going to quibble about the imprecise wowhead data, I'm quite certain those are the percentage if the epic chance is 10%)
Talasite is worth 4g, Dawnstone is worth 20g, Star of Elune 25g, Topaz 30g, Nigthseye 40g, Living Ruby 50g (more or lesss). In other words, there's a 90% chance the EV of brilliant glass is <30g -- less than the value of the stones.
There's a 10% chance it's an epic, which currently means anywhere from 75g to 350g uncut. Let's call that (300g x .1) + (28 x .9) = 55g more or less. So it's a no brainer, right?
Well not in my mind. The fact our epic gems have lasted at 350g for the spinels, amethysts, etc. for 10 days is devoid of logic and has to end. Vortexes were and are 200g for weeks. Redo the formula with 200g at the high end and the Seasprays at 75g, the Lionseyes at 125g, etc. and that 300g is 160g or so and the EV is now 44g maybe. You are losing money 9 days of 10 waiting for the epic and hoping it's not a Seaspray.
This is like transmute spec and making primal mights when the might sells for less than the cost of the underlying primals. Yes, mathematically it still makes sense to do, but "gut reaction-wise" it doesn't feel good. Not when you can go buy netherweave off the AH make bandages and make a profit now.
Again, your server may very. On ours, I'm not even convinced the scenario is as good as a laid out above.
You can get unlucky and only have 1-2 accessible spawns, which significantly decreases your rate of acquisition. If you have access to a rogue, you can get every single spawn (sap is necessary).
These 2 in particular are only pickable by rogues, and the second one is past the 2 sets of stealth-detecting mobs, which I have to use sprint + vanish to get by, so I'm not sure if a druid could do it.
Hunters can farm these nodes as well quite easily using Eyes of the Beast. Walk your pet through the mobs to aggro them, Dash very far away (I use a corner down in the bottom of the water), release EotB, and you've got 20-30 seconds to farm whatever nodes they were guarding. You can blast chests open if you're an engineer, as well. My (mostly benched) hunter is an herbalist/miner and I do this semi-regularly when I grade exams. With Pathfinding (a horrible real talent, but quite nice for farming like this), I can get through 5 resets in ~20 minutes, end up with 1-2 stacks of Lichen, 1-2 Fel Lotus, some miscellaneous Firebloom and Ragveil, and ~1/2 stack of Adamantite. It's a nice short break and relatively profitable.
. Not when you can go buy netherweave off the AH make bandages and make a profit now.
.
I still don't get people who list stacks at 2g-2.5 g buyout, I honestly make between 20-30 g a day doing this (buy em all up hit create all and then go afk for shower etc) and vendoring, I even have a few people on my server who cod me their stacks whenever they get a full one for about 2g.
Hunters can farm these nodes as well quite easily using Eyes of the Beast. Walk your pet through the mobs to aggro them, Dash very far away (I use a corner down in the bottom of the water), release EotB, and you've got 20-30 seconds to farm whatever nodes they were guarding. You can blast chests open if you're an engineer, as well. My (mostly benched) hunter is an herbalist/miner and I do this semi-regularly when I grade exams. With Pathfinding (a horrible real talent, but quite nice for farming like this), I can get through 5 resets in ~20 minutes, end up with 1-2 stacks of Lichen, 1-2 Fel Lotus, some miscellaneous Firebloom and Ragveil, and ~1/2 stack of Adamantite. It's a nice short break and relatively profitable.
Good point, forgot about that. I farm those chests on my hunter anyways, but he isn't an herbalist.
Well not in my mind. The fact our epic gems have lasted at 350g for the spinels, amethysts, etc. for 10 days is devoid of logic and has to end. Vortexes were and are 200g for weeks. Redo the formula with 200g at the high end and the Seasprays at 75g, the Lionseyes at 125g, etc. and that 300g is 160g or so and the EV is now 44g maybe. You are losing money 9 days of 10 waiting for the epic and hoping it's not a Seaspray.
This is like transmute spec and making primal mights when the might sells for less than the cost of the underlying primals. Yes, mathematically it still makes sense to do, but "gut reaction-wise" it doesn't feel good. Not when you can go buy netherweave off the AH make bandages and make a profit now.
Again, your server may very. On ours, I'm not even convinced the scenario is as good as a laid out above.
I don't think having epic gems at 300g uncut is unreasonable and "devoid of logic." The thing about Nether Vortexes is the fact that once you've made your piece of gear that's it, you never want nether vortexes again. But with gems, you are always upgrading gear and you always want the best for that gear. This means a consistent demand for gems. You have to agree that the market for epic gems and the shrinking demand for nether vortexes, coupled with the insane inflation of the daily quests creates inflated prices. I'll bet if there was a s much demand for vortexes at the beginning of 2.4 as there are gems at this point in the game now, vortexes would cost just as much with the amount of gold flowing into the economy.
So I guess what my jumbled thoughts are trying to say is that, adjusted for inflation, vortexes would cost just as much as gems if the demand for vortexes were there.
Seasprays and Lionseyes are both 300g on Proudmoore and Spinels 350g. If seasprays are selling for 75g then the source has to be Guild Banks/sunwell trash and not people turning in Badges.
Using me as a example of a potential supplier of Badge gems. I have 340 unpent badges with nothing beyond offspec gear to purchase. I know that eventually the badges will probably have little value. But if I was to cash out now it would just be more unspent cash in my bank. In terms of maximising my income your probably right I should cash out now.
But I can turn badges into Gold. I cant turn gold into Badges and between now and wotlk preparation I have no need for the gold.
I don't think having epic gems at 300g uncut is unreasonable and "devoid of logic." The thing about Nether Vortexes is the fact that once you've made your piece of gear that's it, you never want nether vortexes again. But with gems, you are always upgrading gear and you always want the best for that gear. This means a consistent demand for gems. You have to agree that the market for epic gems and the shrinking demand for nether vortexes, coupled with the insane inflation of the daily quests creates inflated prices. I'll bet if there was a s much demand for vortexes at the beginning of 2.4 as there are gems at this point in the game now, vortexes would cost just as much with the amount of gold flowing into the economy.
So I guess what my jumbled thoughts are trying to say is that, adjusted for inflation, vortexes would cost just as much as gems if the demand for vortexes were there.
It's devoid of logic.
They are all 15 badges.
You are looking at the demand side as if that determines the supply, which it doesn't.
Supply is entirely people walking up to the vendors and turning in badges for vortexes (or gems). In fact, gems are created elsewhere and vortexes are essentially not created elsewhere (SSC and TK are fairly dead on our server).
So when a 15-badge vortex is 200g and a 15-badge spinel is 350g it's unreasonable and devoid of logic.
But is it a 15 Badge Spinel or even a 15 badge vortex.
The sources for gems are Guild banks clearing out excess stocks, Trash runs in T6 and sunwell content.Brilliant Glass and Badges.
The sources for Vortex are Guild banks clearing out excess stocks, trash runs in t5 content and leftover excess of unused Vortex made from badges.
Gems are more of a consumable, everybody can use them, where as vortex are only used for crafting. If Guild banks supply of vortex is meeting all demand and nobody is turning badges into vortex, what relationship does it have to gems? None!
Last edited by Ngita : 05/21/08 at 3:27 AM.
Reason: I cant spell "for"
You are looking at the demand side as if that determines the supply, which it doesn't.
Supply is entirely people walking up to the vendors and turning in badges for vortexes (or gems). In fact, gems are created elsewhere and vortexes are essentially not created elsewhere (SSC and TK are fairly dead on our server).
So when a 15-badge vortex is 200g and a 15-badge spinel is 350g it's unreasonable and devoid of logic.
This is the picture of what supply and demand looks like for vortexes:
However, in the case of Gems, for one person, it's more like this:
which over the entire population of a server, the demand for gems will always be pretty high. At least higher than that of vortexes. If vortexes and gems have the same supply ( in this case 15 badges to get them both ), and there is more demand for one, the one with more demand will invariably have a higher price because it is worth more to people because of its higher demand. You have to factor in the fact that people are lazy, or the fact that people ar saving their own badges for other badge gear. Some people have more money to throw around and want their epic gems now, so they will pay the higher price. All of these factors together lead to a higher price for gems over vortexes, even though they "cost" the same with regard to badges.
There is logic behind it, you just don't use it. I never said demand determined supply, but demand definitely determines price.
But is it a 15 Badge Spinel or even a 15 badge vortex.
The sources for gems are Guild banks clearing out excess stocks, Trash runs in T6 and sunwell content.Brilliant Glass and Badges.
The sources for Vortex are Guild banks clearing out excess stocks, trash runs in t5 content and leftover excess of unused Vortex made from badges.
Gems are more of a consumable, everybody can use them, where as vortex are only used for crafting. If Guild banks supply of vortex is meeting all demand and nobody is turning badges into vortex, what relationship does it have to gems? None!
Again, vortexes on Stormrage don't come from guild banks. They come from badges, as I wrote above. So do gems. If anything, since gems come from badges and instances, they should be cheaper than vortexes, not pricier. I mean, thanks for all the lessons, but none of them explain why morons are turning 15 badges into 200g while other non-morons are turning 15 badges into 350g here.
I think most of the vortexes on the market now are just leftovers people have from turning in badges before the gem vendor opened. The demand has dropped out, but the supply has also dwindled since no moron in his right mind would turn badges into vortexes to sell at this point, not with Spinels worth nearly twice as much.
Also, Mideci, I don't think any explanation is necessary for morons. They're out there, there's a lot of them, and they're ripe for the picking.
Wizard, you're assuming supply remains constant. As said above, if people can get 350g from 15 badges from Gems, they are less likely (barring idiocy) to spend Badges on Vortexes to make 200g. So supply of Vortexes should drop, which will increase the price. Etc. In theory. The idiocy factor is probably stronger than one might suppose.
Wizard, you're assuming supply remains constant. As said above, if people can get 350g from 15 badges from Gems, they are less likely (barring idiocy) to spend Badges on Vortexes to make 200g. So supply of Vortexes should drop, which will increase the price. Etc. In theory. The idiocy factor is probably stronger than one might suppose.
True, but I will bet with how long vortexes have been out and available for general consumption, the demand is much much lower than the supply regardless. So even though there is a low supply, it is actually a very saturated market because no one really buys them, at least not on the scale that they buy epic gems.
I still don't get people who list stacks at 2g-2.5 g buyout, I honestly make between 20-30 g a day doing this (buy em all up hit create all and then go afk for shower etc) and vendoring, I even have a few people on my server who cod me their stacks whenever they get a full one for about 2g.
This happens so regularly on my server, i'm starting to think i must be missing something. There are literally up to a hundred stacks per day on the auction house in that 2-2.5g range, like no one has a clue about making bandages and vendoring them? The only thing preventing me from doing it more is the crazy amount of time it takes to buyout all the auctions. Any ideas on whether an addon can make that process less painful?
On another note, i started to think that haste gems weren't going to be such a good market, there were at least 5 or 6 others on my relatively small server selling the same 3 types of haste gems i was. I had up to 20 of each of them made, so this was concerning. I kept relisting 3 at a time though, and eventually just yesterday they started to sell for decent prices. Still no others up today, so it looks like the competition has dried up!
On another other note! I sold another belt of natural power for 2100g yesterday, so the market still exists. I think i may be the only one on the server with access to that pattern (through a guildie) who actually gets it crafted and sells it. Everyone else is still stuck on selling Belt of Blasting for 1300g each, like there's any profits there!
This happens so regularly on my server, i'm starting to think i must be missing something. There are literally up to a hundred stacks per day on the auction house in that 2-2.5g range, like no one has a clue about making bandages and vendoring them? The only thing preventing me from doing it more is the crazy amount of time it takes to buyout all the auctions. Any ideas on whether an addon can make that process less painful?
I use Auctioneer/BottomScanner for that, just setting my min grab price at 2.5 gold per stack and going through the first few pages of cloth. You just keep your cursor over yes and press it to buy all the cloth cheaper than your price on that page. Makes buying it extremely easy.
The gem market on my realm isn't doing so well, most gems are up between 250-350 gold, but no one seems to be buying. We are high pop and for some reason vastly different than what most people describe in this thread. Most auctions tend not to sell at all, and at any given time you can see ~10 of the cheapest primals, gems, leg enchants sitting at Long or Medium time left all day until they expire. We see very little demand Horde side and are the dominant faction on my realm.
The easiest way to make money if I am scanning for things at my grab price is to ask in trade to buy things at a price far below AH price, and put some up for sale slowly as the cheapest, and it will eventually sell at a decent profit. People are willing to sell Fel Lotus at 25g per stack to avoid listing it at 39g (the cheapest) on the AH and have half of the auctions expire.
I took up elixer spec alchemy(but not herbalism) after Sunwell opened for the healing trinket. Since then I have been making stacks of healing power and draenic wisdom to sell. Healing power cost about 50g in herbs to make, and sell for 75g for a stack of 20. Draenic wisdom clost about 70g a stack to make(terocone is 60gold) and sell for 100g a stack. Due to my server's high population and raiding guild population(horde side: 2 in sunwell, another 10 in BT, and 20 more in T5), these elixers sell very well. 2-4 stacks of healing power a day, and 1 of wisdom, or about 100g a day, plus enough extras procs to supply my raiding needs.
But I havent looked to closely at other type of elixers to make. With this kind of raid population, what else would sell well? Agility, Shadowpower?
In addition to this, I am leveling a hunter alt(54) for skinning(druid dropped skinning for alchemy) and herbalism. So if the market keeps up this way, alchemy will be pure profit for me in about another week or so.
Wizard, you're assuming supply remains constant. As said above, if people can get 350g from 15 badges from Gems, they are less likely (barring idiocy) to spend Badges on Vortexes to make 200g. So supply of Vortexes should drop, which will increase the price. Etc. In theory.
This is exactly what is happening in practice on my server. I picked up a bunch of Vortexes at around the 190-210g before the Gem vendor hit. Have been selling them pretty consistently for 285g a time right now.
Meanwhile Spinels were selling at 380-400g on the day the gem vendor dropped, and they're gradually falling to 350g now. I expect the two prices to meet somewhere between 300g & 350g over the coming months with the usual supply/demand fluctuations.
I was wondering if anyone knew what are the most useful gems for people. I have collected a number of recipes to level JC and i dont really want to spend a ton of gold on the not very useful recipes. However, being a mage I really only know about the gems I am interested in. So, for example, I really dont know if Enduring Talasite (4 Def, 6 Stam) is very useful to a tank.
Ok, my question ...... As a <insert class/spec>, in general, what uncommon gems do look for to fill a Red, Blue and Yellow slot?
Thanks!!!
EDIT: as whistles mentioned .... I actually meant to say "Rare gems" .... not "uncommon gems" ..... (I was trying to avoid the "blue gem" meaning rare gems ... not "star of elune" misinterpretation ... haha ... epic failure)
Search for blue quality gems on the AH and sort downwards by price. Assuming the AH is regularly stocked the most useful ones will be at the top. Note down some prices and do it again for a day or two to get an idea of the entire market.
Since gems have the same chance to show up it should give you a good idea of which gems people are using the most.
As a sidenote blue is rare, green is uncommon. I'm assuming you're talking about blue gems since you mentioned Talasite.
I was wondering if anyone knew what are the most useful gems for people. I have collected a number of recipes to level JC and i dont really want to spend a ton of gold on the not very useful recipes. However, being a mage I really only know about the gems I am interested in. So, for example, I really dont know if Enduring Talasite (4 Def, 6 Stam) is very useful to a tank.
Ok, my question ...... As a <insert class/spec>, in general, what uncommon gems do look for to fill a Red, Blue and Yellow slot?
Thanks!!!
EDIT: as whistles mentioned .... I actually meant to say "Rare gems" .... not "uncommon gems" ..... (I was trying to avoid the "blue gem" meaning rare gems ... not "star of elune" misinterpretation ... haha ... epic failure)
All Talasite's are not worth it at all.
Dawnstones such as 8 hit 8spellhit 8resilience
Noble Topazs such as shit/dmg scrit/dmg agi/hit
Elune pretty much 12stam is it.
Most basic gems for pve gear.
Don't waste gold on Talasite cut's till you have a good amount of gold.
So I was thinking does Brilliant Glass get re-rolled every patch or is it only a patch where the possible contents are altered? Because if it is every patch I am gonna save all my Talalsite Elune and Dawnstones for season 4 and hope I get something better, but if I am wrong than let me know so I can make some room on my alt by opening the ones i have saved.
05/20/08, 8:56 PM
Similar Threads
