And how much is your time worth for someone to drop mats in a trade window and for you to click a button?
I hate to sound like a jerk here, but for some reason Enchanters tend to be two types of people. Ones that say they will do it for whatever tip the person feels compelled to give, or the ones that are trying to validate that their craft is worth 20-50g per enchant.
This has been argued over and over on the wow forums. As an example, Level 19 in Darnassus wanted +15 agility to Gloves. At the time their were about 5 enchanters on the server who could do it and Mats cost from the AH 300g. Since he was posting Tipping for +15 Agility. I asked him how much he was tipping, he wouldnt tell me, since I had a had a bad run with twinks tipping I told him I wouldnt do it for less then 10g. After arguing back and forward a couple more times he put me on ignore. I wasnt worried I went off and did my dailies. I know for a fact he was still looking for a enchanter a week later because I read his tells on alts. The 19 before him had tipped me the grand total of 20 silver. "Sorry the mats used up all my money"
I do enchanting for friends and guildies for free. I will disenchant and hand out the shards in instances for free. But if I dont know them I wont do a enchant for less then 5g unless the guy is standing right next to me. Current prices for the 8 or so boe enchants I dont know vary from 800-3500 gold.
First point - Agree. I have a set price of 5g. If people offer more, bonus! If it's less, I don't work for you. But I try not to be an 'asshole' about it. In fact, I have even referred people to other JC's, only to have them come back to me anyway.
One thing to be aware of, if your server is anything like mine, is that if in the current market a certain cut gem is going for, let's say, 10g more than the uncut gem, and you charge someone 5g for the cut, they may just buy the uncut gem, have you cut it for 5g, then list it for 5g more than that. It doesn't happen often, but I noticed it once with Solid Stars - they were going for somewhere around 50, someone had me cut 2 and I just charged him 5g each, then I noticed a bit later the uncut gems were up for around 35g, and the guy I just cut gems for had undercut my Solid Stars on the AH. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but I really don't want to generate and feed my own competition.
I never advertise in Trade anyway, but if someone happens to know I cut gems and asks me for a cut now, I always tell them I charge 10g per gem. No one's gotten angry yet, surprisingly.
Well, I have all pre TBC enchants other than frost power to gloves and people are generally willing to pay gold for the enchanting. I charge 25g if they come to me and 50g if I go to them and I find it reasonable.
My farming rate is about 250g-300g per hour, so 25g equates to about 5-6 mins of my time which is the average time I have to spend talking to them + linking mats +the time they took to put mats from their bag to trade window and trade twice.
I normally don't solicit actively too, people just come to me on their own accord by word of mouth so they know what to expect.
One thing to be aware of, if your server is anything like mine, is that if in the current market a certain cut gem is going for, let's say, 10g more than the uncut gem, and you charge someone 5g for the cut, they may just buy the uncut gem, have you cut it for 5g, then list it for 5g more than that. It doesn't happen often, but I noticed it once with Solid Stars - they were going for somewhere around 50, someone had me cut 2 and I just charged him 5g each, then I noticed a bit later the uncut gems were up for around 35g, and the guy I just cut gems for had undercut my Solid Stars on the AH. Maybe that doesn't bother you, but I really don't want to generate and feed my own competition.
Yes, very good point. Generally, first thing I do is check ore prices, then check uncut gem prices - buying anything thats a 'fair' price, based on current market. Then around 10-12pm (about when most guilds finish raiding and/or honor calculates) hang out in a spot to cut gems (like AH bridge), checking the AH still every 15 or so. Pretty much have to do it in that order, so I don't end up in a trap like Stoical mentioned, where I feed my own competition.
I've always been of the opinion that if the person spent time/gold to level a trade, then he can charge whatever he wants. It is entirely up to you to buy. You don't go into the grocery store and curse at the manager for the price of milk.
Can we please not derail a thread about making gold with people who get offended over the very idea of people trying to make gold with enchanting? This thread is full of discussions about how to manipulate prices, capture arbitrage opportunities, corner markets, form cartels, convert raw commodities into finished products efficiently, and otherwise have fun with the WoW economy while maximizing your gold/hour. Then suddenly we get to enchants, and someone starts ranting about how it's immoral to pay someone 10g to click a button. Please tell me you realize how retarded this makes you sound.
(The very worst thing you can say about people who demand a minimum tip of 5g (or 10g, or 50g) is that it might not be the most effective way for them to maximize their gold income. And it's by no means obvious that is isn't. An hour of spamming trade might net you...one enchant every ten minutes? At 5g each, that's 30g. True, you can browse the AH while doing so, but you've probably spent ~15 minutes just running around, meeting people, telling them the mat list (twice), waiting while they get the last shard, etc. An hour of farming might net you 150g easily. Can you really net enough from 45m of AH browsing in between dealing with confused twinks to make up the 120g difference? Probably not; AH browsing suffers from high diminishing returns. And if you are feeling too lazy to farm, doing fewer enchants for twice the fee nets you a similar total amount of gold (depends on elasticity of demand) and more uninterrupted time to talk on /g. Not obviously crazy.)
Not to mention the boring as hell element, I feel pretty bad ass when I am playing around the auction house's intricate economy, not so much when I am telling somebody the mats for a glowing nightseye (what do you think it is you douche!).
"Oh he's a sad little man? He's thrown a kettle over a pub, what have you done?"
I never understood how enchanters made money off 5g tips, once an hour, for a few hours each night, when, as stated before, an hour or so of farming could net you 150g+.
As such, I tend to tip ludicrously large amounts because I cannot figure out how enchanters manage to make any money at all, save DEing trash for mats and selling enchants. But when it comes to "your mats, my 15seconds and a button click", it sounds like a crapshoot.
I've always been of the opinion that if the person spent time/gold to level a trade, then he can charge whatever he wants. It is entirely up to you to buy. You don't go into the grocery store and curse at the manager for the price of milk.
Actually most people do get pissed at overpriced commodities such as milk at stores :P
I agree with you though. If I want a house built and I'm going to pay someone else who knows what they are doing to build it, I'm gonna have to pay them what they are asking for. If they charge me twice the market value to build it, and I'm too lazy to find someone else to do it, then that's my own problem.
I never understood how enchanters made money off 5g tips, once an hour, for a few hours each night, when, as stated before, an hour or so of farming could net you 150g+.
As such, I tend to tip ludicrously large amounts because I cannot figure out how enchanters manage to make any money at all, save DEing trash for mats and selling enchants. But when it comes to "your mats, my 15seconds and a button click", it sounds like a crapshoot.
Disenchatning trash is worth a lot under the right circumstances. It's also a lot faster than trying to sell every green you get. The trade spammers are usually just bored, I'd never do it myself. It can take up to 5 minutes.
I never understood how enchanters made money off 5g tips, once an hour, for a few hours each night, when, as stated before, an hour or so of farming could net you 150g+.
As such, I tend to tip ludicrously large amounts because I cannot figure out how enchanters manage to make any money at all, save DEing trash for mats and selling enchants. But when it comes to "your mats, my 15seconds and a button click", it sounds like a crapshoot.
Enchanters make their money DISenchanting not enchanting :P
Manufacturing cheap LPS and selling is great and I know has already been covered in this thread.
Enchanters make their money DISenchanting not enchanting :P
Manufacturing cheap LPS and selling is great and I know has already been covered in this thread.
Recently, a friend and I farmed up literally thousands and thousands of Netherweave (And plenty of greens) for me to make Imbued Netherweave Pants out of so I could then disenchant them into LPS's.
Over the course of a week or so, I think we made in the neighborhood of 3.5-4k gold each (Splitting the profits equally).
[Edit] The massive (Well, it was massive when I didn't have a main on the server) expense I put into leveling enchanting has been paid back atleast 20 times since I've hit 70 on my lock just due to selling enchanting mats in bulk (Super, economy fluctuating bulk ).
Enchanters make their money DISenchanting not enchanting :P
Manufacturing cheap LPS and selling is great and I know has already been covered in this thread.
5g tips don't make a living, but if you got any "rarer" recipes, it can make nice money in addition to playing with AH. Mongoose, boar's speed always sell, I think my record was ~400g in an hour at season2 start :P 25g fee for mongoose and ppl in line waiting for it <3
I have one request for those people who are intimately familiar with enchanting materials: how can I best exploit Greater Planar Essences? I'm sitting on ~ 24 stacks of them, and they cost me probably 2g per essence on average (disenchant accumulations). My problem is: the price disparities on dragonblight horde for GPEs are enormous, far greater than almost any other material aside from recipes and darkmoon cards. I'm having a lot of trouble timing the market, and while I can literally choose what prices LPS or Arcane Dusts are going to sell for any day of the week, I seem to be out of my depth with GPEs. For references: Base price is 7g per essence, max price is 15g per essence, and while prices tend towards 12-13g during the mornings, there is a constant flow of 7-9g essences throughout the day, punctuated with huge numbers of them on sundays(all day) and tuesday nights. Maybe I need to do more research into the demand, but tips from some of you guys here would be super helpful.
In the beginning of this thread, I had made my fortune with the Season 3 patch(Cut Gems/LPS/Arcane Dust/GPEs). Now that it's been two months, and the servers economy has become more stable, I've used my cash to manipulate certain commodities prices in long-term maneuvers. I still exploit uncut/cut gem disparities, though this has become tougher with smarter uncut gem sellers, but I've mainly moved into a few new markets.
New Commodity Endeavors:
Cobra Scales/Primal Airs(Nagrand motes are a godsend for prices, PA's are 15-20g now)/Heavy knothide->>>Nethercobra leg armors.
Materials costs: cobra scales: Average 80g for 4. Primal Airs: Average 160g for 8. Heavy Knothide: 30g for 20, or 6g for 4. Nether: 50g (Hold out for cheap nethers, saves a bundle). Total cost: 160+80+50+6=316g.
Price at sale: 599.99.99. Total profit 600-316=284g. per kit. Average sale of 2 kits per week.
Cash Gains to date: ~1200g profit
Cornering the market: Large Prismatic Hoarding. Tactic: Buy any LPS/Nexus Crystal/SPS at 18g or less (Sps/nexus obviously 6g per or less). Result: Shortage of Large Prismatics on the Auction House. Prices Double in less than twelve hours. Gradual reintroduction of personal LPS hoarde into market at a 1/3rd rate of total supply causes ZERO deflation in price. Continual purchase of LPS for 20g or less results in a weighted average sale price for own LPS of 35g(min 30, max 50), for an average profit of ~22g per shard.
Cash gains to date: 3400g PROFIT
I've also delved into the Braided eternium chain and earthstorm diamond market with remarkable success(thanks to you TAMG contributors!), making an average of 50g profit per cut diamond, and 15g per sharded BEChain. No transmute procs on the diamonds even xmuting 4-5 per day has hurt my total margin, but it's still ludicrously high at an added value of 100% base price.
The important thing to note with ALL of this, is that with an initial capital outlay of ~ 2000 gold, I've profited(in two weeks) from two manipulations to the tune of 4600g, and am sitting on additional inventory of these items which I would value at over 8000g. I believe this really shows how important having money is to making money. Without market-moving power(in the form of cash), I would not have been able to get cheap cobra scales/nethers, PWaters for 15g, or sell my LPS for an average price nearly DOUBLE the 6 month average price. If you can corner a market, even for a week, you can make ludicrous amounts of money. As has been stated before, being willing to risk your own capital is probably the largest difference between someone making a fortune, and someone making their repair bill.
I only wish doing this with real money was so easy.
Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.
How much money did you input then (how much did you spend on buying LPS of less than 20g ?)
Assuming your initial capital was also involved into the Nethercobra crafting ...
Cornering and then controling a niche market is something i tried after the last dark moon faire. Been idling and buying herbs there during work times. In the beginning i was pondering if it was worth grabbing the black lotus as they were only 8-10g on the AH. At 60s from the vendor i went "Screw it" and grabbed all i could get. A week after the faire i started manipulating the market, putting up Black Lotus everywhere from 15 to 25g, sitting on 100+ of those i had quite some manipulation power for those regular Auctioneer scanners. It's now 2 weeks after my manipulation and i can easily sell Black Lotus for 18g99s/19g99s any time and just snag everything below 18g. Just those 100 Black Lotus i got from the Faire made me 2000g when cutting the fee from manipulating the market. I am still waiting for a letter from a GM *looks over his shoulder*. I feel dirty, but it feels good.
Enchanting for fun and profit:
As far as I am concerned, the main reason to do /2 spam enchanting is to empty the AH of enchanting mats. One of my main income sources is large prismatics - And I've noticed that I can list them at a price that puts them on page 3 on the AH, then spend 30 minutes in shattrath advertising Mongoose/executioner/boars speed/sunfire/soulfrost-.. (all of which take stupid numbers of large prismatics) and hey, my shards just sold. The enchanting service can also be quite profitable in its own right at 15 gold /enchant. Partially, this is profitable because ER just doesnt have that many 375 enchanters who are willing to do enchants for the general public but here are a few notes from my carrer as an enchanter.
1: Only do "cash and carry" enchanting when doing so will allow you to charge high "impatience taxes". This means new season starts, and to a much lesser degree, weekly arena points. At any other times, its just not worth the hassle of people trying to barter with you about price. Make them get the damm mats of the AH. AH your disenchants.
2: Dont advertise enchants that take less than 375 skill. There are always people trying to level enchanting, and one of the standard ways to do that is.. tradechannel spam. This means that its nigh-impossible to make money off pretty much any sub-375 enchant. The only exception is that people will often buy lesser enchants off you while getting boars speed, executioner ECT, done and any tips from this is "free money" because you already met up with that customer.
3: If people argue with your standard fee, politely tell them its not up for debate. If they continue to give you grief /ignore - it will save your bloodpressure in the long run.
4: keep the trade channel open when you are in cities- People will often ask for enchants, and whispering them with the enchant link is usually a sale. Note that many of the people who ask for enchants in the trade channel do not read trade. I have seen many people ask for EG: mongoose in trade 3 seconds after one of my competitors spammed his macro. Which included mongoose. Reply in whisper, and in trade both - in trade on the off chance someone else wants that enchant as well, in whisper so that they actually see it.
During the last weeks I sometimes also saw that the prices between uncut and cut metas sometimes spread for about 30 G. Which is a nice opportunity. Even after all the costs incurred for listing a rather expensive piece I still manage to pull 20 G per Cut at least which a nice source of additional income. Also this market doesn't seem to be as crowded as for example the sale of cut topazes or talasites (which is at the moment a business with very slight margins for me).
Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but well since it's about making gold I figure it'll work.
Is there any simple AddOn for remembering what prices I put up my auctions for. I have a terribly memory for remembering if ItemX went for 50g or 55g normally. I know the Blizzard UI does it, but only in the same session. AuctionIt used to do it also, but it hasn't been updated in a year.
Edit: And I tried Auctioneer but didn't like it one bit, plus it's way too much for what I need.
Not sure if this is the right thread to ask, but well since it's about making gold I figure it'll work.
Is there any simple AddOn for remembering what prices I put up my auctions for. I have a terribly memory for remembering if ItemX went for 50g or 55g normally. I know the Blizzard UI does it, but only in the same session. AuctionIt used to do it also, but it hasn't been updated in a year.
Edit: And I tried Auctioneer but didn't like it one bit, plus it's way too much for what I need.
Have you tried the Auctioneer Basic package? Does everything i need it to do and isnt too complicated, i don't get on with the Auctioneer Advanced package at all.
If it was just 5g to click a button that would be okay. But usually you have to link the enchant, wait for them to buy mats, come find you, trade you mats, put up another trade window where they've forgotten to put your tip in at all... The process can take 10-15 minutes. Now, I don't do all my dailie every day, but if I can do a daily in the time it takes for you to get your act together, I feel I should be getting enough money so that I am not -losing- money by helping you out instead of doing something else (call me crazy ^_^).
Either way... if I don't feel its worth my time, who are you to argue?
If it was just 5g to click a button that would be okay. But usually you have to link the enchant, wait for them to buy mats, come find you, trade you mats, put up another trade window where they've forgotten to put your tip in at all... The process can take 10-15 minutes. Now, I don't do all my dailie every day, but if I can do a daily in the time it takes for you to get your act together, I feel I should be getting enough money so that I am not -losing- money by helping you out instead of doing something else (call me crazy ^_^).
Either way... if I don't feel its worth my time, who are you to argue?
It's totally all about the time. A lot of the time (on my server at least), there are people in the trade channel saying 'LF Enchanter'. When I see one of these, I do a who on the player to see what level they are. If they're level 70, I'll normally whisper them and ask what they're after, if they're not level 70 I normally wont - simply because any non-top level enchants aren't worth the time of getting together and actually doing the enchant. Sure, clicking a mongoose button for 25g is nice, but waiting 5 minutes for someone to get from Org to Shattrath, then them spending 2 minutes in their bank getting mats, then haggling for the price for 2 minutes, only to do a 2g +7agi enchant or something really isn't worth it.
How much money did you input then (how much did you spend on buying LPS of less than 20g ?)
Assuming your initial capital was also involved into the Nethercobra crafting ...
I initially purchased about 100 LPS for about 15g each from a few different major suppliers(over the course of two days). This left me with another 500g to spend on the mats for 3x nethercobra leg armors (cobra scales for 9g apiece=major score, Primal airs for 15g, etc.). The money I made back from shards (armors take longer to sell), allowed me to reinvest more into NCobra/earthstorm diamonds/BEChains as well as re-churn the LPS market if I saw too many " WTS LPS 20g pst" in trade channel (I would buy them and just tell the person to COD me future LPS).
Though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours, and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable; I simply am not there.
And how much is your time worth for someone to drop mats in a trade window and for you to click a button?
I struggled with this question for a while when I started JC. Here is what I have come up with:
<buyer>: "Can you cut <whatever>?"
Me: "<link formula>"
Me: "I normally charge 5g per cut for that."
99% of the time I get an "ok". On very rare occasions, I get someone who want to talk me down, and if they do, I usually accept whatever they are offering. Usually it is a package deal like "can you cut 3 for 10g?"
Me: "I will be around <wherever> for a little while"
Assumptive close on where we will meet and when. Translation: "Get the mats, and meet me here quickly, or I will not do it."
Sometimes it is: "We finish our raid around 12:30, if you can send me a tell then, I can do it."
Sometimes it is: "I am doing Arena/BG atm. I am queueing in Shatt." I have cut many gems for people in those 30 seconds between arena matches.
Sometimes it is: "I have to log now, but if you mail it to me, I will get it back to you tonight"
Regardless, it is always someplace I would normally be and reduces the time I have to waste going to meet them and really reduces my level of effort to Clicking a couple of buttons.
Money is made in JC with prospecting, selling on the AH, and lately crafting for disenchanting, not for-hire cutting. But if someone is willing to get all the mats and fly to wherever in the world I am and give me money, why should I refuse them, even if it is only 1g?
01/22/08, 10:11 PM
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