Well, if I can use 15 badges to get 300g, as a raider, my money woes will be over for good. I'm looking at 30 badges from a 2 day BT/Hyjal clear. That is 30 badges that I get while doing exactly the same thing I always do. That would be 600 gold a week bonus over and above whatever I would normally earn. Add in Karazhan, daily heroics, and alt runs on my mage, and I'm looking at over 1000g per week without even trying to earn money.
For this reason, I highly doubt that the price of epic gems will settle at 300g.
As I see it, blue gems are already a value to most over the epic gems just based on price. We see this with spell thread. 75-100g for the rare, 300g or so for epic, at least on my server. People will still pay good sums of money for the rares as the epics are a bit to pricey at this point.
Yes, but there is no 3g Spellthread available with 80% of the stats of the 100g one. Like I said, it's the combination of the very low price of uncommon gems and the practical arrival of epic gems that will crash the rare gem market.
This is purely observation, and I may be wrong in my understanding of current in-game economics, but it seems to me that the value of a single gold is going down, not necessarily items themselves being devalued. Perhaps this change to the gem market via dailies and raid badges (since it's been proven gems interact with the whole market in some way) will just devalue a gold as opposed to the item in question.
I can't figure out how to phrase it differently. Does anyone know where I'm coming from?
"The value of a single gold going down" is exactly what's going to happen. More dailies means more gold entering the system.
People get very very confused about the WoW economy. High prices for goods don't create inflation, they are the byproduct of gold entering the system with nothing to buy. Too much gold chasing too few goods.
Now, we're going to have tons of gold, but tons of goods. Some things will remain valuable. I submit nethers are among those. Some things are going to get shockingly plentiful versus the current status quo -- epic gems for example. Zeldrich is perhaps correct that 300g is too high (and, in fact, the relative value of a spinel vs. a runic spellthread suggests its absurd to pay 300g for a spinel assuming both are plentiful). But there is going to be a new ton of gold entering the system and nothing much to take it out of the system. This will allow the few goods in the system -- whether they be existing or created via badges -- to command relatively high prices.
"The value of a single gold going down" is exactly what's going to happen. More dailies means more gold entering the system.
People get very very confused about the WoW economy. High prices for goods don't create inflation, they are the byproduct of gold entering the system with nothing to buy. Too much gold chasing too few goods.
Now, we're going to have tons of gold, but tons of goods. Some things will remain valuable. I submit nethers are among those. Some things are going to get shockingly plentiful versus the current status quo -- epic gems for example. Zeldrich is perhaps correct that 300g is too high (and, in fact, the relative value of a spinel vs. a runic spellthread suggests its absurd to pay 300g for a spinel assuming both are plentiful). But there is going to be a new ton of gold entering the system and nothing much to take it out of the system. This will allow the few goods in the system -- whether they be existing or created via badges -- to command relatively high prices.
I don't necessarily think that the new dailies are going to pump an incredible amount of new gold into the economy. Some perhaps, but I don't think a ton. I've done the dailies on IQD, and while they're novel the first time around, and there might be a bit of a push to open the island, it doesn't mean that it is going to interject a massive amount of gold.
For instance, many people who are doing sunwell dailies, probably aren't going to be doing the old dailies as well. They will just not have time. It is like the netherwing dailies. They were interesting for a short while for me after I got my epic flier, but they were a rep grind more than a source of income. In the end, if I wanted to make money I would just do the most lucrative quests, and spend the rest of my time farming.
Just because I could possibly do 10 (and 25 in the patch) daily quests and introduce more gold into the economy, at this point it is still more personally lucrative to farm tradeable items.
You will see some extra gold entering the economy. But how much really remains to be seen.
The extra gold will likely come more from the people who are looking to build rep/build the city. Less so from those looking to build wealth. Lots of people claim to be able to make upwards of 200g per hour, you just can't do that with dailies.
Edit:
Likewise, if the value of gold were to go down, then things would begin to cost more gold. That is not what is going to happen. The value of gold may go down slightly, but the value of gems is likely to go down far more. The value of, say, herbs, is going to remain largely unaffected by the gem change.
When 2.4 releases and everyone rushes to the new zone for dailies/quests/instances, etc., is it possible that the current high traffic zones/areas (elemental plateau, etc.) will turn to ghost towns, at least until the newness wears off?
If so, it may be profitable to hold off joining the masses in new content to take advantage of the lack of competition for nodes/herbs/elementals/skettis trees et al. to increase our inventories. I'm not sure Nagrand will become a temporary Blasted Lands, but this could be another opportunity offered by the new patch.
"The value of a single gold going down" is exactly what's going to happen. More dailies means more gold entering the system.
People get very very confused about the WoW economy. High prices for goods don't create inflation, they are the byproduct of gold entering the system with nothing to buy. Too much gold chasing too few goods.
Now, we're going to have tons of gold, but tons of goods. Some things will remain valuable. I submit nethers are among those. Some things are going to get shockingly plentiful versus the current status quo -- epic gems for example. Zeldrich is perhaps correct that 300g is too high (and, in fact, the relative value of a spinel vs. a runic spellthread suggests its absurd to pay 300g for a spinel assuming both are plentiful). But there is going to be a new ton of gold entering the system and nothing much to take it out of the system. This will allow the few goods in the system -- whether they be existing or created via badges -- to command relatively high prices.
This creates an interesting point: several posters have said it's a bad idea to get too invested right now since everything is in flux. However, given the inevitability of inflation, simply standing by and investing in nothing is guaranteed to cost you gold...much like buying stacks of an item that decreases in value costs you money, sitting on piles of gold in the face of inevitable inflation also costs you money. The question is what to invest in that will increase in value (or at least decrease in value more slowly than gold will) is a difficult one to answer, but clearly investing in nothing will cost you.
Edit: I think the new dailies will inject a lot of gold into the economy. I don't know how many people do the dailies now...I know I used to for rep with ogri'la, the skyguard, and netherwing. Once I reached exalted I tired of them, and worked on alts. I play my main for raids/instances, which aren't moneymakers for me. But I know when Sunwell hits, I'll have a huge incentive to do dailies: not only to help open new stuff in sunwell plateau, but also to gain rep for the new rep gear. I imagine a lot of players who play very little now (done with 5 mans, only log in for some arena, don't raid) will log in more to see the new content. And they'll be doing the new dailies. So I think in terms of number of dailies done/server, there will be a large uptick resulting in more gold coming into the market.
Interesting point: where does gold come from? I, like many others here, would farm for gold as that gives more gold/hour than dailies. However, dailies give actual gold into the market...when I farm for primals, I create a small amount of vendor gold from vendor trash and AH the primals. Selling on the AH actually removes gold from the market...since I'm taking gold from another player and the AH is stealing a cut that vanishes into the ether (or twisting nether, I guess). So gold actually in the market comes from gold off mobs and trash drops sold to vendors and dailies done. I have no idea how much gold created per day on the server comes from mobs vs. from dailies. Mob drops account for a lot I imagine...but are dailies a significant amount of that? And more people doing dailies as opposed to instance runs for the nth time will result in more gold/hour being created on the server I'm sure.
Yes, but there is no 3g Spellthread available with 80% of the stats of the 100g one. Like I said, it's the combination of the very low price of uncommon gems and the practical arrival of epic gems that will crash the rare gem market.
I'm still questioning the "practical" portion of the epic gems. Sure, they're more readily available now than they were. That's still not going to allow them to fully usurp the position of the rare gem as the default upgrade of choice for the masses. Yes, it's a lousy point-per-gold ratio to go from uncommon to rare, but there's also the gold production factor. People would have to be taking in a much larger sum of gold per day for the epic gems to really replace rare gems. 50g is relatively easy to produce, such that buying a few gems isn't a huge deal. Producing enough for a handful of epic gems is a lot more time and effort.
I have personally liquidated my large stock of rare gems and have spread the gold around buying crafting mats/uncut meta's/LPS amongst other things. I feel there will be a good profit to be made from these items. The future of the rare gem market is too unpredictable at the moment. I personally don't have the stomach or the gold reserves to absorb a crash as its pretty much my primary gold source.
I will stock many uncut meta's for the start of season 4, this will be more lucrative in the short term than the beginning of 2.4 as most casual pvp'ers will be spending their 75k on new merciless. I feel that rare gems will fly off the shelf at this time but i'll stick to meta's i think.
Just to add a little tip for those who do the Skettis dailies:
The chance for a mob to daze is based on your defense skill. Therefore, by wearing defense-heavy tanking gear, you can make yourself daze immune. I do this all the time when bombing eggs and rescuing prisoners.
For Warriors and Paladins, the gear is a no brainer, even if it's just AH/dropped greens or whatever dungeon drops you can get that nobody else wants, even if you're not really interested in tanking anyway.
Mail and Leather can get the "of Defense" suffix, so that's also an option even for non-tanking classes.
I'm not sure how much gold this could save/earn you in the long run, but given how the Monstrous Kaliri will be taught how to chase players flying straight up in 2.4, this might come in handy.
Last edited by Prinsesa : 03/06/08 at 10:16 PM.
Reason: Missing words
Just to add a little tip for those who do the Skettis dailies:
The chance for a mob to daze is based on your defense skill. Therefore, by wearing defense-heavy tanking gear, you can make yourself daze immune. I do this all the time when bombing eggs and rescuing prisoners.
I seem to remember they changed this in a patch a while back.
Ah yes:
Originally Posted by Patch Notes
Client Patch 2.2.0 (2007-09-25)
-Daze: Defense Skill will no longer reduce the chance players have to receive the Daze effect when attacked from behind by enemies.
They later reversed it (at least for warriors) because it meant that warriors were getting Dazed while moving mobs (even if the mob was in front of them due to weird hit box mechanics).
Odd. It's clearly still in the patch notes (reading from Patch.txt in \World of Warcraft directory) but a post from Drysc confirms it never went live:
Originally Posted by Drysc
A change to the “Daze” mechanic was originally planned for introduction in patch 2.2. This change would have removed additional defense rating as a factor in reducing the chance of being dazed, equalizing the chance for heavy armor wearers to become dazed as compared to light armor wearers. With further testing and discussion it was decided that players would be too negatively affected in their ability to tank and reposition their targets, and this change will no longer be included with 2.2. We currently have no plans to reintroduce this change at a later time.
Thankyou for correcting me in such a polite manner - I'll likely be wearing some +def gear for the Skettis bombing run quests now.
Regarding the new Brilliant Glass reciepe, I think it may be better to use the shortage of all raw green gems to shift larger amounts of cut green gems (generally gives a 200%+ return) in the next week or so when current stock is exhausted which may be more reliable than crunching all your greens into a random blue, which is likely to get flooded fast. Just an idea, not sure if it holds up.
I think the new JWC recipe wont make difference. Maybe first weeks simple becouse dumping stocked green gems into blue one will flood blue market but will leave green gems cut marked empty.
I think overall prices will raise, becouse the prices between green/blue/epic gems will be more stable due to new recipe.
Green ~2-4g, blue ~15-60g for cut gems.
So im holding my 20 stacks of green gems prepared for cuting aswell as my stocked 40 blue quality gems for patch.
Basically it´s just a slight buff for JCs, roughly 5 stacks(5x4+xdoubles) of prospeccing will wield you another blue gem now.
Prices for Adamantite ore might even go up a little in the context.
Prices for blue gems will likely drop in the start when everyone burns their banked green gems(if you got 5000 of them like a madman then you´re rather lucky). I´d expect them to go down for up to 10g(my server got prices similar to 6,25,25,30,35,55 currently) for a good 1-2 weeks but then normalizing again.
Prices for epic gems, hm.
What this change will likely do is robbing raiders of their own money - so to say.
As stated earlier, a 25 man raiding guild will get 30 badges times 25 guys in 2 days - thats 60 gems which either go to alts or the open market(excluding a guilds need for spinels and pyrestones).
The common welfare-heroic-kara-running-player will need a rough 3-4 hours to get 15 badges - which would price the common epic gem at 600+ gold of grind equal money.
Now, prices are not that high nor will they go that high - I'd estimate the needed gems to go up to 150-200 and the less needed to hover around 60-90g.
The majority of possible badges will still come from raiders, so the more raiders your server has the more likely for your prices to go really bottom low.
In a similar context: The price for Primal Nethers.
Seeing that the costs are unchanged, people will try to sell of most of their staches, letting them drop in price.
After the initial drop though, I´d expect prices to go up to 90-100g even(my servers average price is 50 of them atm).
I'm doing pretty much the same as Subterranea: selling my rare gems I don't need (I tend to keep a small stock for personal use) - I'll probably also sell a any adamantite I won't need for the new blacksmithing stuff if I'm able to put them in when the price is higher than 28-30 G. I will buy any underpriced uncut uncommons though.
Right now the market is already pretty shaky on my realm and it won't get better in 2.4. What has made me a bunch of money is selling netherweave bags. I know this was mentioned already but at least on our realm the margins can be pretty ridiculous. And due to the fact that all new bags are bind on use there is a constant need for supply.
I also don't think that the normal farming areas will be deserted. At least you will face competition from gold farmers and those people who actually know they will make more money from farming than running dailies. At least on BR-EU even on 4:00 in the morning there are several people grinding the skettis trees which often escalates into gankfests.
My daily route is:
a) Blade's Edge
1) Bomb Them Again to get shards + gold
2) Banish more demons to get darkrune
3) Emanations - destroy shards to free up space
4) Wrangle
After this doing Shartuul event - sending BoE to trade/bank alt
From BeM - straight way to skettis
b) Skettis
1) Bombing
2) Prisoner (optional) not worth spending much time waiting for NPC, leave area if you didn't found him during Bombing
Move to Netherwing Ledge
c) Netherwing Ledge
a) Dragons are the least of our problems
b) Picking up the pieces
Pick up ore if you have mining or skin if profession allows
(Don't loot crystals unless you need rep, you won't gather enough by doing 2 quests)
Leave mines
c) Booterang
d) Gathering herbs (If profession allows) Netherdust bushes have fair chance of Fel Lotus drops + several Primal Mana
All time left you can either grind elementals here in Shadowmoon or gather nightmare vine or mining.
I found this pattern is optimal for time/gold, and I repeat it from time to time, pretty unchanged.
The only thing that sustains one through life is the consciousness of the immense inferiority of everybody else, and this is a feeling that I have always cultivated.
Himmel, I do the same exact route with 1-2 minor tweaks.
1. I incorporate the cooking quest.
2. Sometimes I'll save the PvP quest from a previous day and hand in.
3. There's a 'trick' to finding the NPC in skettis. Pick up ye ol bombing quest, then head straight to the westernmost spawn point. If he's not there, and no one is currently doing him, fly directly to the north/mid location. Bomb one of the towers en passing if he's not there, and head to the final spawn point (SE).
At any point in time you will find a group doing him, or sitting there waiting for you. If a group is doing him, I bomb surrounding locations to get my 20/20 bombs done and wait until he's despawned from the current location. 5 seconds after despawn he will be up again at 1 of the 3 locations, and I simply reverse the little route. I've not spent more than 2min looking for him: well worth the free potions on top of the usual 12g.
I'd actually recommend picking up the Netherwing Crystals too, it's not worth specifically gathering them to complete the quest, but if you do "Dragons are the least of our problems" every day you'll usually get enough crystals once every 2 to 3 days to hand those in as well, which is a bit of nice bonus cash for something you're doing anyway.
It does take up 1 bag spot on spare crystals, but luckily the crystals stack to 250, so that shouldn't be too much of an issue.
buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of
My daily route is:
a) Blade's Edge
1) Bomb Them Again to get shards + gold
2) Banish more demons to get darkrune
3) Emanations - destroy shards to free up space
4) Wrangle
After this doing Shartuul event - sending BoE to trade/bank alt
From BeM - straight way to skettis
b) Skettis
1) Bombing
2) Prisoner (optional) not worth spending much time waiting for NPC, leave area if you didn't found him during Bombing
Move to Netherwing Ledge
c) Netherwing Ledge
a) Dragons are the least of our problems
b) Picking up the pieces
Pick up ore if you have mining or skin if profession allows
(Don't loot crystals unless you need rep, you won't gather enough by doing 2 quests)
Leave mines
c) Booterang
d) Gathering herbs (If profession allows) Netherdust bushes have fair chance of Fel Lotus drops + several Primal Mana
All time left you can either grind elementals here in Shadowmoon or gather nightmare vine or mining.
I found this pattern is optimal for time/gold, and I repeat it from time to time, pretty unchanged.
I did the BEM -> Skettis -> Netherwing Ledge quest for awhile to make my fortune as well. Only change I would say is do the Emanations quest first, since the speed boost helps you on the rest. Also, unless you are really hurt for inventory room, no point not picking up the crystals you get in the mine from killing stuff, every 2-3 days you'll have another turn in's worth.
I could do this general run in anywhere from 45 mins - 1.5 hours, depending on time to find the escort, time to find ravagers in the mines, and number of people doing the booterang. Now that I'm at the point where I'm beyond any pressing need for gold, the most I run when I"m bored is BEM Bombing, Emanations and Wrangle, then Skettis Bombing, then Booterang + looting in mine. That's around 70-80g for 30 mins work or so, which is fine if you can't handle farming for prolonged periods.
I used to dual-box the ogri'la dailies every day when I was raiding, pvping, and low on gold.
Emanations = have to do solo on each character, no advantage to dual boxing.
Wrangle more rays = both characters receive credit for each wrangle.
Same with bombing.
Same with banish more demons.
Been months since I've done them, but it's something like 12g per quest? or about 100g to do all four on two characters, which took about 25 minutes on average for me (depending mainly on demons), coming out to 240g/hour, basically guaranteed.
One more thing: If I'd known at the time, I would have summoned an apexis guardian for the emanations quest, as it satisfies the quest for both players, and with a druid/warrior is easy to dual box (100k hp, so maybe 3-5 minutes to kill with warrior dpsing and druid healing). Then you take the apexis crystal, turn it in for a blue, and disenchant it into a LPS for additional profit.
Even if the sunwell quests are a bit less efficient, if they are easy to dual box, it could be more lucrative for those of us with that option.
03/06/08, 7:01 PM
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