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Old 11/21/07, 8:04 PM   #601
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
More information (from mmo-champion.com)

Druids
Ravage (All Ranks) - Damage changed from 350% to 385%

Hunters
Aspect of the Viper - Mana regeneration changed from 50% of the total intellect to 55%.

Mages
The new Mana Emerald is an upgrade of the Rank 5, not a new rank. Changed from 1136 - 1364 mana to 1800 - 3000 mana.

Paladins
Crusader Strike - Now deals 110% weapon damage and refreshes all Judgements on target.
Sanctified Judgement (All ranks) - Seal's mana cost returned changed from 50% to 80%

Rogues
Ambush (All Ranks) - Damage changed from 250% to 275%

Shamans
Water Shield
New Version - The caster is surrounded by 3 globes of water, granting 50 mana per 5 sec. When a spell, melee or ranged attack hits the caster, 200 mana is restored to the caster. This expends one water globe. Only one globe will activate every few seconds. Lasts 10 min. Only one Elemental Shield can be active on the Shaman at any one time.
Old Version - The caster is surrounded by 3 globes of water. When a spell, melee or ranged attack hits the caster, 200 mana is restored to the caster. This expends one water globe. Only one globe will activate every few seconds. When the spell expires, each remaining globe will activate and grant 200 mana to the caster. Lasts 1 min. Only one Elemental Shield can be active on the Shaman at any one time.

Improved Water Shield - Now gives 2 Mana / 5 sec along with the 27 mana bonus each time it triggers.
Lightning Shield (Rank 1) - Mana changed 45 from to 25
Lightning Shield (Rank 2) - Mana changed 80 from to 60
Lightning Shield (Rank 3) - Mana changed 125 from to 100
Lightning Shield (Rank 4) - Mana changed 180 from to 150
Lightning Shield (Rank 5) - Mana changed 240 from to 200
Lightning Shield (Rank 6) - Mana changed 305 from to 250
Lightning Shield (Rank 7) - Mana changed 370 from to 275
Lightning Shield (Rank - Mana changed 430 from to 325
Lightning Shield (Rank 9) - Mana changed 490 from to 400
Earth Shield (Rank 1) - Mana Changed 600 from to 300
Earth Shield (Rank 2) - Mana Changed 745 from to 375
Earth Shield (Rank 3) - Mana Changed 900 from to 450

Professions
Transmute: Mithril to Truesilver cooldown has been lowered from 47 Hours to 23 Hours.
 
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Old 11/21/07, 8:27 PM   #602
seminarca
King Hippo
 
Tauren Druid
 
Thaurissan
Druids
Ravage (All Ranks) - Damage changed from 350% to 385%

Rogues
Ambush (All Ranks) - Damage changed from 250% to 275%
That makes me laugh, they'll still just be "drinking Mage in AB" skills.

The Water Shield change doesn't strike me as being huge 0o they've said it's the same mana returns as before, just spread out better and requiring less babysitting. What strikes me as being far more significant is the mana cost reduction for Earth Shield (it's been halved!).
 
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Old 11/21/07, 8:48 PM   #603
Kasi
Spymaster
 
Karnadas
Draenei Shaman
 
No WoW Account
So basically:

If you're not getting hit, this is the same as it is now (600 mana/minute) without the need to waste a GCD every 60 seconds.

If you're getting hit constantly (lets say shield goes down every 12 seconds) you get 600 mana + 12 seconds of 50 mp/5 (which is 120 mana) thus giving you an upgrade of roughly 20%.

If you're getting hit at the pace of 3 a minute you get 600 mana + a minute of 50 mp5 (thus 600 more mana), a gain of 100%.

I'm curious at what the optimal amount of time for being hit is that would give you maximum amount of mp5. Of course this comes at the price of a GCD. Still in pretty much every way this is an upgrade.
 
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Old 11/21/07, 9:54 PM   #604
Melchior
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Skywall
Originally Posted by Kasi View Post
Then that will be a welcome change indeed. So you said constant mana regen equal to the current minimum gain? Current min gain is about 200 mana (3 charges for 600). 200 mana/5 obviously is quite overpowered. Maybe I'm not understanding what you are saying, but what value of mp5 are you getting from water shield?
The current minimum gain from Water Shield is 600 mana per 60 seconds (that is, the spell runs full duration with no globes discharged thus all charges are rewarded at the expiration), which is equivalent to 50mp/5s.

In 2.3.2, the buff gives a passive 50mp/5s as long as the buff is active, but still retains 3 charges that operate as the spell does currently.

Basically it's a buff in the sense that you will not often actually have to use an in-combat GCD to retain the 50mp/5s bonus from Water Shield, whereas previously you would lose 1.5s due to GCD per 60 seconds of combat time refreshing it.

Much more interesting is the 50% mana reduction of Earth Shield's base cost. That is massive.
 
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Old 11/22/07, 7:29 AM   #605
Taja
Piston Honda
 
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Blood Elf Mage
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Yeah damn, its now (haven't checked new frost buffs yet) impossible to win a duel against a resto shaman. Currently its still possible to run them out of mana if you just spellsteal the earthshields.
 
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Old 11/22/07, 8:57 AM   #606
Enova
King Hippo
 
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Night Elf Hunter
 
Moonglade (EU)
Hunters

* Arcane Shot: Ranks 1-5 will once again deal bonus damage based on attack power.
* Aspect of the Viper effect increased.
* Freezing Trap is no longer limited to one target at a time.
* Pet leveling speed has been increased.
from MMO-Champion - World of Warcraft Guides and Raid Strategies

Now, for some reason, none of the test realms are up at the moment; but there are rumors about nerfs to AGI to AP and AP to pet damage scaling in the new patch. Since I can't quite test this yet, if anyone has been on the PTR during the night can confirm or deny this. Normally, I wouldn't lean my ear towards undocumented changes, but seeing as only two weeks ago hunters got two low blows, I'm not sure what to expect. So, keep an eye out...

Last edited by Enova : 11/22/07 at 9:08 AM. Reason: typos

Originally Posted by XI- View Post
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
Originally Posted by Kaubel View Post
You people are idiots
Guilty as charged ^
 
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Old 11/22/07, 9:04 AM   #607
BeeLz
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Frostmane (EU)
Pretty huge mage buff. I'm wondering why they added the freezing effect to icy veins. 20% castspeed would have been nice enough already. And it's not like frostmages were useless in pvp before.
 
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Old 11/22/07, 10:39 AM   #608
Sapa
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Originally Posted by Osse View Post
How's the new aspect of the viper?
Up to 55% from 50%. It's 2xT6 bonus upgrade!

They can increase AotV by 300%+ I will still use it same way as now... farming and when waiting on pot CD when low on mana. More and more I progress less INT I have on my gear... and more Leather I ninja from rogues.

Hunter needs passive 1-2% mana pool regain on critical.
T3 6piece bonus was a blast (Cryptstalker Armor - Item Sets - World of Warcraft).
PS. And it looked nice.

 
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Old 11/22/07, 10:44 AM   #609
Illundai
Just likes to disagree.
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Talnivarr (EU)
They're still giving Enhancement Shamans mp5 and int on their gear, so I doubt they'll remove it from Hunters :-p. If there's one class that doesn't need the regen it's us >.>

 
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Old 11/22/07, 11:21 AM   #610
Rannasha
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Draenor (EU)
Originally Posted by Rott View Post

Also, leo seems a bit buggy. We had quite a few people still dpsing their inner demon up to 10 seconds after demon phase ended without getting mind controlled.
Not sure if this is a new bug, or a bug at all. Leo doesn't always cast Insidious Whispers at the same time during the demon phase, sometimes he's early, sometimes he's late. Bossmods (BigWigs at least, not sure about DBM) also show 2 separate timers, one for the demon phase ending and one for the Insidious Whispers to end. Sometimes he's exceptionally late and the IW don't end until he's transformed again. This caused a (pre-2.3) wipe when i got IWed, couldn't kill the demon before phase-end (but with plenty of time left on IW), and not being able to pick up Leo in humanoid form.
 
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Old 11/22/07, 12:21 PM   #611
Sapa
Piston Honda
 
Troll Hunter
 
Mazrigos (EU)
Originally Posted by Illundai View Post
They're still giving Enhancement Shamans mp5 and int on their gear, so I doubt they'll remove it from Hunters :-p. If there's one class that doesn't need the regen it's us >.>
Wotlk is not "far" away. I think they can prepare the field till then and blast us with 70-80 itemization & mechanics change.
Sort of "1agi != 2AP" verison2.

Bit lower the mana cost on all hunter shots (5-10%), start reducing int stat on hunter mail, give 2-3 t7 sets to hunters. Sunwell is close and could be "endgame experiment" for hunters before Wotlk hits.

Worst that can happen is having more hunters grouped with SP. Now with new mage "gem pot in 2.3.2" that should be easier.

 
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Old 11/22/07, 11:18 PM   #612
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
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Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
I'm guessing (hoping) that the mage gems will be redesigned as unique(3) rather than 3 charges so the logistics of making new ones are slightly simpler. Even if they aren't, it's actually not that hard, you just macro it to use one, delete any remaining, and start conjuring.

Ice Veins turns out to not really be all that much damage, when viewed in a raiding scenario. 4 seconds of casting every 3 minutes, which can probably be extended to ~7 by starting to cast a fireball just as the debuff fades. Its real power comes in synchronizing with other cooldowns, like trinkets and arcane power--from a PvE perspective. From a PvP perspective, the freeze proc buff on its own is probably way cool and the cast haste is mostly gravy but still noticeable. My biggest beef with it is that it doesn't seem very thematic to frost, although I suppose its similar enough to Ice Floes.

 
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Old 11/23/07, 12:56 AM   #613
 Kalman
And It's Delicious
 
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<>
Orc Shaman
 
No WoW Account
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
Ice Veins turns out to not really be all that much damage, when viewed in a raiding scenario. 4 seconds of casting every 3 minutes
20 seconds according to the notes?

Originally Posted by Vontre
Oh, nah, I just type things for the sake of typing things. ^_^
Originally Posted by Lyta
The dog nailed me like three times that day. It resulted in my ass hitting the ground and my legs waving in the air.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 1:14 AM   #614
darkhorse
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by Kalman View Post
20 seconds according to the notes?
I think they mean an "extra 4" seconds of cast time. (Buff up for 20 seconds & you cast 20% faster, assuming perfect timing and no lag it means you get an extra 4 seconds worth of casts done every 3 minutes).
 
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Old 11/23/07, 2:41 AM   #615
Prinsesa
Bald Bull
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Echo Isles
My apologies if this is out of topic, but I had a question:

For the Druids, how convenient is the automatic and GCD-less shifting now? I have a baby 36 bear cub that I want to go back to leveling but having to shift back to caster form to heal annoyed me to no end. I used to have an addon that would drop me to caster on the first click, but I can't find it now, and I'm a little too lazy to make the keybinds more accessible.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler
 
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Old 11/23/07, 2:53 AM   #616
Saraya
Piston Honda
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Proudmoore
Minor nit: 20% faster casting means 25% more spells cast, so it would be extra "5 seconds" instead of 4.

For druids, the automatic shifting is about as significant as hunter's dead range getting reduced. No macros are required. Just hit the hotkey for shifting to Bear form, and you go to bear form. In bear form, hit the key to go travel form, and you go straight into travel form. In bear form, hit the hotkey for healing touch, and you immediately shift out and start casting it. No more delay for shifting out of forms, but be careful if some rogue is stunlocking you in bear form. If you hit travel form, you'll still shift to squishy caster form. I believe there are some bear form potion chugging macros about that might be useful for you though.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 3:01 AM   #617
 Nisu
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Prinsesa View Post
My apologies if this is out of topic, but I had a question:

For the Druids, how convenient is the automatic and GCD-less shifting now? I have a baby 36 bear cub that I want to go back to leveling but having to shift back to caster form to heal annoyed me to no end. I used to have an addon that would drop me to caster on the first click, but I can't find it now, and I'm a little too lazy to make the keybinds more accessible.
In a word, amazing. Being able to one-button heal/cyclone from stealth, go from flight to cat stealth or vice versa, instant cat->bear, etc, etc.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 3:08 AM   #618
Xelopheris
Piston Honda
 
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Orc Death Knight
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Nisu View Post
In a word, amazing. Being able to one-button heal/cyclone from stealth, go from flight to cat stealth or vice versa, instant cat->bear, etc, etc.
You can go to flight right from cat stealth next to an aggroing mob. Previously you had to at least find a safe spot to do this.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 3:23 AM   #619
 Nisu
Don Flamenco
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Xelopheris View Post
You can go to flight right from cat stealth next to an aggroing mob. Previously you had to at least find a safe spot to do this.
Yeah, better yet is the ability to drop into cat and stealth in midair, and land still in stealth.

On another note, I was amused by the Ravage/Ambush "buffs". Those were relevant at 60 when you could Ambush someone for half their hp, not so much now where any decent pvp-er will have 10k hp or so to your 3k crit (hey there resilience!). They're bad for the same reason PoM Pyro is: it's a one-trick pony with no viability past the first shot.

As for Viper, there's really no amount of regeneration (ok, maybe 1600% like Evocate was would do it) that makes up for it, not due to the AP loss, but due to the Imp. Hawk loss. Maybe they should just unhook Imp. Hawk from the aspect itself, a la Flurry.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 5:33 AM   #620
Brakar
Don Flamenco
 
Human Priest
 
Doomhammer
Originally Posted by Saraya View Post
Minor nit: 20% faster casting means 25% more spells cast, so it would be extra "5 seconds" instead of 4.
Sort of. With a 20% reduction of cast times, you do gain 4s of actual time. That 4s is equivalent to 5s of non-reduced cast time though. For example, you spam a 1s cast spell with no lag (and no GCD). Without Icy Veins you get 20 casts in 20s. When you use Icy Veins, that same 20 casts takes 16s. You have an additional 4s of cast time available. During this 4s you can fit 5 casts which would have taken an additional 5s at normal cast times.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 8:47 AM   #621
Ravashak
Glass Joe
 
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Undead Rogue
 
Stormrage (EU)
One of my guildie just pointed me towards this article

In short, it seems like that the guild bank access needs to be setup from the guild-master every time a new member join the guild. If not, the permissions/limits he had in his former guild will be carried over in the new one with easy to guess consequences. This seems like a nice "Undocumented change" to me
 
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Old 11/23/07, 9:47 AM   #622
Wilo
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Stormreaver (EU)
Regarding the leveling boost that came in 2.3, has anyone done any research on it yet? I tried to look for posts/threads relating to this matter but couldnt find any. So far I only know what has been said on the patch notes but as usual the patch notes dont really shed any light on the matter.

EDIT: Nevermind. Found a bluepost about it.

Last edited by Wilo : 11/23/07 at 10:02 AM.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 10:00 AM   #623
 Bekah
I'm the girl that the ESRB warned you about.
 
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Blood Elf Priest
 
Mal'Ganis
Research on what exactly?

Less xp to level. More xp from quests. It's pretty simple. There wasn't a specific increment to the increase to quest xp and the leveling xp increase wasn't a flat rate (if I recall correctly), so it can't be boiled down to something simplistic like X% more xp from quests, X% less XP to level.

Originally Posted by Disquette View Post
How fortuitous. Usually we have to leave this thread to feed.
 
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Old 11/23/07, 10:41 AM   #624
Whitemane
King Hippo
 
Orc Hunter
 
Tarren Mill (EU)
So the short term fix for this is for only the guildmaster to invite someone and manually setup their guild bank settings immediately after the invite.
I don't get this, you can't set a persons guild bank permissions - it's handled through ranks. So what is the deal? Promote him one up and demote him again to reset the permissions?
 
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Old 11/23/07, 10:48 AM   #625
Pyre
Bald Bull
 
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Anjar (retired)
Blood Elf Paladin
 
No WoW Account
I was leveling yet another alt through the Outlands, and found the Skywing script now bugs out shortly after the jump down to the lower platform. He will agro and fight the mob that's right at the landing point, and then happily just sit there until you abandon the quest.
 
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