sp00n

Did you check if you were affected by the banshee's -50% hit debuff?

 

• Intermission

Yes I agree. A miss with 9.2% hit just shouldn't happen (and I dont think it did, I'm just reporting what a friend claimed).

I mentioned the parry from behind claim to further express my doubt of his perception that night :P

 

◊ Vectivus

Wearing 33 Hit Rating, I've yet to see a Taunt resist/miss on Nalorakk (ZA Bear Avatar) in the 2 resets we've killed him. Obviously an irrelevant and anecdotal point, but I may as well add my two bits.

Based purely on the fact that the change was made to see Taunt calculated as a melee effect, to allow physical hit rating to affect it, I think it's pretty reasonable to assume that the physical hit mechanics (ergo the 9% miss rate) apply.

 

galzohar

Yep I had backstabs blocked in a duel before. The "am I behind for backstab?" check is done on the client-side, while the "use front or back hit tables?" is checked on the server, so if you're behind on the client but in front on the server, you can have backstabs blocked/parried. That's at least the only possible explanation I can think of.

 

• Anarkii

First night in BT and got a miss on Naj'entus with 9.15% + hit.

Zrave - WWS

Logged out in the same gear used for the fight.

 

Nezralix

I seem to recall that there's always a small chance of missing.

 

Oscarvil

Only for spells, melee misses can be negated entirely with +hit.

 

Pp-ftw

Concerning melee hit vs spell hit odds table for taunt, you may want to test it over Anachronos, as far as I remember, he is tauntable.

 

Ihmes

Nalorakk might have special taunt-hit table, mainly because taunt is so important factor in the fight. One resisted taunt is almost a guaranteed wipe if the tank isn't in full BT/T6 gear. Maybe developers decided to remove that random wipe from the encounter.

 

Samelina

Given my previous experience with 4 horsemen as well as other boss encounters that hinge on taunt not getting resisted, I would be hesitant to believe that

 

Nite_Moogle

Given how much the Four Horsemen sucked for that very reason, it's quite possible that the bear boss has a lower chance of having taunt miss than other bosses.

 

◊ Bryne

It's anecdotal. I had a Taunt resist on PTR (the subsequent Mocking Blow hit) and last week our paladin had a Righteous Defense resist (BoP worked). Nothing I've seen would suggest any change to Nalorakk being specifically more tauntable, and that theory doesn't even make sense with anything we know to be true about game/spell mechanics.

Until this is tested extensively with some more WWS data, it's all just wheels spinning.

 

taleden

Has any further testing been done on this?

On a somewhat-related topic, I discovered this morning that there do not appear to be any lv73 mobs anywhere in the regular world, now. Wowhead had a few listed in Blades Edge, but it seems they all disappeared when Ogri'la was added, so now the only lv73 mobs to test attack table mechanics (like hit and glance) are bosses.

However, I also noticed that, according to Wowhead at least, General Drak in UBRS is flagged as a 'boss', which in theory means the same lv73 attack table should apply; but as an old-world pre-raid boss, he should be pretty wimpy. Makes him a good candidate for testing, if true. Has anyone tried him for this purpose?

 

lfd

Reth'hedron the Subduer on the Twilight Ridge at the far west of Nagrand is level 73 (but elite - not something you could easily test on, I suspect). There's also the rare drake Teremus the Devourer in the Blasted Lands who's flagged as a boss.

 

Liar

Considering that they even tinkered with Nalorakk's weapon skill since he doesn't crush tanks, it might not be too far off they lowered taunt resist rates on him either. He just isn't your average level 73 boss.

 

Prinsesa

I was under the impression that they changed Taunt mechanics to work off melee hit instead of spell hit specifically because Nalorakk was such a Taunt-reliant boss, but that actually getting enough hit to make Taunts unresistable was still up to the tanks to itemize for.

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 

Dwargue

This thread basically dealt w/ melee +hit, but has anyone noticed anything weird w/ spell +hit?

my guild is very very casual, but a few of us like to run WWS to track personal progression. Here's the parse from last night's Attumen->nightbane.

Wow Web Stats

my mage has 163 +spell hit (+12.92% to hit), 3/3 elemental precision (+3%).
on top of that, for this Maiden fight, i had the Draenei racial buff, +elem shammy totem, for a total of 19.92% to hit.

yet, here's the maiden fight parsed for me:
ikon - WWS

2.6% resist. if you look at the time of fight, and the elem shammy buffs, he dropped totem of wrath twice, so it should have been up the entire time, not to mention i should have been hitcapped even without the totem.

oddly enough, here's a parse from nightbane, where the elem. shammy swapped to his warrior to tank, so i didn't have the +hit buffs.
ikon - WWS
only 0.7% resist.

can someone explain this? I'm really confused.

 

PsiVen

Two fights in Kara do not a statistically relevant sample make. Of course it's going to vary.

 

Dwargue

you are correct, in that it's not a very large sample, but what I was trying to show through WWS, that I've experience some personal oddity, and perhaps someone has a viable explanation for it.

as far as I know, maiden does not have any inherent frost resistance, nor does nightbane have any particular vulnerability toward frost. so, if the above is true, why would I have a parse of higher resist when i had higher +hit?

As far as i know, frost is binary in that it either hits, or resisted fully. Once I'm at the hitcap, the only variation should be in that 0.1% resist. the 1.9% gap, especially considering i had 3% more to hit, just doesn't jive.

in that sense, I don't know how a sample that's even 1000x bigger would help.

 

Roywyn

You can't do meaninful statistics with sample sizes like those.

You had one single resist on Maiden. One. One single resists. Happens, is bound to happen. It's completely natural and you make it sound like it's the end of the world just because 1 resist happens to be 2.6% of your 38 casts.

The hit cap is 1% by the way not 0.1%.


Edit: I'm not sure if Teremus follows proper boss mechanics, I heard he does not? Try to get crushed/glancings before making a large scale test.

 

◊ Bryne

As a spellcaster, you have approximately 1% unmitigatable resist. Over such a tiny sample size those numbers are perfectly in line statistically.

Anyway, that's not what this thread is about. I'd like to see someone go run some tests on Teremus and come back with what they've got, seems like the easiest way to go about it.

 

Khaleel

And as someone already pointed out in this thread, spells always have at least a 1% chance to be resisted. Most likely, the RNG just caught up with you.

 

foxglove

Is this a viable test? As I recall, the first "boss" mob is Ironaya in Uldaman, so if all boss mechanics are the same, one could use her. She'd also be easier to sit back and spam taunt on for hours, since she doesn't do all that magic damage (and she's a faster, easily soloable clear. In UBRS you need 3 people to activate the fire elemental boss and open his door).

I guess there are a few possibilities:

1.) Bosses the WoW worlds over have the same default mechanics regardless of the level they're intended for. If this is the case, one would expect a 9% base miss rate. (Would one also necessarily have glancing blows and boss-level dodge/block/parry? Would they crush? Has anyone ever actually tested this?)
2.) Bosses have an "internal" level that is used for mechanics, so Ironaya, Drakk, Nef, and Al'ar would all differ, but Al'ar and the ZA bear boss would not.
3.) Somewhere in between the two (maybe raid bosses are the same but not the 5-man ones).
4.) It varies from boss to boss.

Somewhat related--Is the 9-ish% miss rate somewhat determined by defense (like a flat rate added on top of the 5.6% vs. +3)? I've been told that different bosses can have different defense but never seen much confirmation. (Ironaya would have to have 260 defense or so for players at that level to kill her, whereas Drakk would probably have 315, as would the aveverage BWL/AQ/Naxx boss. And by default bosses in Kara or Outlands would have 365.)

Edit: wowhead lists Ironaya as a 40 elite. So much for that idea.

 

Cos-

Ironaya is a level 40 elite. There are no boss flagged 5 man bosses any longer.

 

foxglove

Yeah I just caught this myself. So it looks like UBRS is the only option. That would include:
Emberseer
Rend
The Beast
Drakk
Valthalak (the summoned boss for Tier 0.5).