What level of gear do all of these people have? Are they all in nearly full T6? Been farming Illidan awhile? Or midway-BT in T5/S3/T6?
Everyone is nearly full T6. 12 Illidan kills. The character names are all in my screenshot, and my guild and realm are in my profile, so you should be able to armory us from that if you'd like.
Do you always use protection paladins for those 4-5 min time remaining runs, or do you feel that reaching the time limit on a consistent basis is viable without having a protection paladin for the AoE pulls?
We have done it with a prot war/prot war combo before (and had 3-4 mins left). I don't think prot pallies are absolutely needed, but they do speed things up a little, or at least make my life a lot easier lol.
Do you always use protection paladins for those 4-5 min time remaining runs, or do you feel that reaching the time limit on a consistent basis is viable without having a protection paladin for the AoE pulls?
We've been completing the timer pretty consistantly and have never run with a prot paladin (once we got familiar with the zone, every main run we've done has downed all 4 bosses in the time limit). Every group has a prot warrior MTing and a feral druid OTing. Our best times have been 6 and 7 minutes remaining. Without stacking the group (no enhance shaman and shadow priest), our time usually sits at around 1-3 minutes remaining.
We generally have to be really careful on the AOE packs. We always make sure to single target the first mob down and then start up the AOE. Sometimes people still die, but as long as the rest of the run goes smooth, having a person die occasionally isn't going to screw up the timer (even without the prot paladins ).
You don't really *need* a prot pally if you have a holy pally in your raid. He should just wear a mix of tanking gear and healing gear -- if he has any amount of t5/t6 offspec stuff he's probably going to be uncrittable, especially with a piece or two of pvp gear. That's enough for them to tank the Eagle gauntlet, the Lynx trash & Dragonhawk boss hatchlings. (with some FR gear tossed in for good measure)
The ideal setup in many ways might be prot pal/dps war though, and have the prot pal MT everything. This definitely takes a certain level of gear for the dps warrior though, to avoid gibbing at Lynx. Our group goes with a prot war MT, arms war OT, and a holy pally in the mix of gear I listed above for any kind of AOE pulls. He does have T5/T6 offspec stuff though, including a Bulwark, so your milage may vary a bit.
You don't really *need* a prot pally if you have a holy pally in your raid. He should just wear a mix of tanking gear and healing gear -- if he has any amount of t5/t6 offspec stuff he's probably going to be uncrittable, especially with a piece or two of pvp gear. That's enough for them to tank the Eagle gauntlet, the Lynx trash & Dragonhawk boss hatchlings. (with some FR gear tossed in for good measure)
The ideal setup in many ways might be prot pal/dps war though, and have the prot pal MT everything. This definitely takes a certain level of gear for the dps warrior though, to avoid gibbing at Lynx. Our group goes with a prot war MT, arms war OT, and a holy pally in the mix of gear I listed above for any kind of AOE pulls. He does have T5/T6 offspec stuff though, including a Bulwark, so your milage may vary a bit.
We have Feral MT and an Arms Warrior as OT. The warrior has bits of T5 and arena gear, and it's enough to tank the Lynx add with 0 points in Prot. Our healers don't have anything past 3/4 TK, 5/6 SSC, so I think it's very doable.
My tank suit is all Kara, ZA, badge, or pvp gear. I can easily OT ZA without issue as an MS warrior. On trash it's a lot faster than a "normal" tank too, since I just wear a hybrid of expertise/tank/pvp gear and aoe everything (can get away with full dps gear aoeing on a lot of it too).
I've OTed the Lynx as 17/44 fury. It's a little harry, but not too bad. For timed runs, though, I'm generally just an AOEer that doesn't need mana with a Prot Warrior MT and a Prot Paly OT. The prot paly becomes a healer on some bosses (Eagle, Hex Lord, Zul'Jin), and OTs the other bosses. On the fire boss, popping an entire side at once and AOEing it down shortens the fight a lot rather than a more controlled approach. We regularly do 3 bosses in the time trial. We can get to and pull the 4rth, but haven't made the kill in time. We don't really care though. Style gear doesn't kill anything. We keep getting the PVP ring though.
I've OTed the Lynx as 17/44 fury. It's a little harry, but not too bad. For timed runs, though, I'm generally just an AOEer that doesn't need mana with a Prot Warrior MT and a Prot Paly OT. The prot paly becomes a healer on some bosses (Eagle, Hex Lord, Zul'Jin), and OTs the other bosses. On the fire boss, popping an entire side at once and AOEing it down shortens the fight a lot rather than a more controlled approach. We regularly do 3 bosses in the time trial. We can get to and pull the 4rth, but haven't made the kill in time. We don't really care though. Style gear doesn't kill anything. We keep getting the PVP ring though.
Any tricks in dealing with Amani Scouts?
Those mobs give us the biggest trouble in completing a timed event.
They can be stunned so, feral charge, charge, intercept, concussive blow, rogue stuns... just burst them down fast as they only have ~7k hp. I can queue up a MB + SWD combo and take off more than half their health in about 1.5 seconds. They're pretty easy to kill you just need 2 or 3 people to make sure they die fast.
Also, make sure your shaman kill their totems after each fight. I think this has caused more scout related deaths for us than anything.
If you bring a druid, have him root the scout while everyone else nukes it.
Also, pick your fighting spots, hugging left, and dragging the last pack up the stairs just before that last pull will save you a number of potential scouts you would have to otherwise deal with.
As long as the timed run is being discussed in such detail, could someone offer some specific pointers for shaving a few minutes off the run time? We run 1.5 tanks (1 prot warrior, 1 feral druid), 3 healers, and 5 DPS in T5 gear or so, and the best we have been able to manage was killing 3 bosses with about 3 minutes left on the timer. Some specific questions:
1) Assuming Eagle -> Bear -> Dragonhawk -> Lynx kill order, what are some typical benchmarks (minutes remaining) after each kill?
2) What is the best way to minimize time lost to looting items/badges and opening bonus chests? Should we talk to the NPC then leave area and open all chests after timer is over? Or should we not free any NPCs while on the timer?
3) How feasible is tanking all the elite warrior-type mobs during the Eagle gauntlet and just aoeing them down as we aoe birds?
4) What is the fastest path to clear to Dragonhawk, through the hut area or the egg area?
5) How do you minimize time spent on the Dragonhawk boss? How many birds do you let hatch each time? If we don't hatch enough, is the final zerg reliably survivable assuming your casters/healers are sufficiently overgeared? (I recall one kill where we hatched maybe 12 birds total before the final zerg, then somehow managed to down them all at the end with bop/pain supression/battle rezzes on our AOE and tab SWP from the shadow priest, but I'm not sure whether this would be repeatable.)
You can just do the chest npcs after you're done with the time trial. You only need to loot the first boss you kill (badges) in a timed run, the other 3 would usually still be up when you're done anyway, group loot/communicate for boss drops. Mount and go as soon as the boss dies.
So far this is quite a bit of fun and it definitely makes the place more interesting than it would be otherwise, very much a step in the right direction and more dungeons should have this type of "bonus objective" to make them more involving for everyone on the progression spectrum.
As long as the timed run is being discussed in such detail, could someone offer some specific pointers for shaving a few minutes off the run time? We run 1.5 tanks (1 prot warrior, 1 feral druid), 3 healers, and 5 DPS in T5 gear or so, and the best we have been able to manage was killing 3 bosses with about 3 minutes left on the timer. Some specific questions:
1) Assuming Eagle -> Bear -> Dragonhawk -> Lynx kill order, what are some typical benchmarks (minutes remaining) after each kill?
2) What is the best way to minimize time lost to looting items/badges and opening bonus chests? Should we talk to the NPC then leave area and open all chests after timer is over? Or should we not free any NPCs while on the timer?
3) How feasible is tanking all the elite warrior-type mobs during the Eagle gauntlet and just aoeing them down as we aoe birds?
4) What is the fastest path to clear to Dragonhawk, through the hut area or the egg area?
5) How do you minimize time spent on the Dragonhawk boss? How many birds do you let hatch each time? If we don't hatch enough, is the final zerg reliably survivable assuming your casters/healers are sufficiently overgeared? (I recall one kill where we hatched maybe 12 birds total before the final zerg, then somehow managed to down them all at the end with bop/pain supression/battle rezzes on our AOE and tab SWP from the shadow priest, but I'm not sure whether this would be repeatable.)
First, you should drop down to 2 healers if you're trying to complete the time trial. Paladin/Shaman or Paladin/Holy Priest works best.
1) That kill order is typical.
2) As soon as a boss dies, have players loot their badges, and move on -- keep it on group loot and just have the person that is to receive the item roll need. Designate one person to release prisoners, but don't have them wait around for them to open the chests -- release the prisoner to get your extra time, and move on. Come back and loot the chests when you're off the timer.
3) Single Target DPS is going to be faster, as you'll likely only have a couple AOEers, and AOE tends to necessitate more downtime between packs -- a bad thing in this case!
4) Egg area.
5) All depends on how much AOE power you have, and how well your tanks do. We typically hatch all but 5 eggs on a side in the first round, then all but 5 on the other side in the second round, then DPS the boss and finish off the last 10 birds when they're hatched at 35%.
Some other tips on Group Makeup:
-2 AOEers is essential
-1 tank that can also DPS is strongly recommended (Feral Druid or DPS-Spec Warrior)
-2 Healers + Shadowpriest (Pally/Holy Priest or Pally/Resto Shaman is best)
-If you have a Prot Pally, they make great MTs in ZA
-An Enhancement Shaman for your Melee group is also very helpful.
This is what I'd choose as an ideal group makeup for the timed run, assuming you don't have the luxury of a Pallytank:
Group 1:
Prot or Fury Warrior
Feral Druid (OT if Warrior is Prot, MT if he's fury)
Enhancement Shaman
Rogue
Any DPS here, a Second Rogue is probably best, though a Hunter, extra DPS warrior, or a second Warlock are all good choices here.
Group 2:
Holy Paladin
Resto Shaman or Holy Priest
Shadowpriest
Mage
Warlock (or Elemental Shaman, if your "extra" group 1 DPS is a Warlock).
Obviously the timed event -can- be completed with a suboptimal group, but if you haven't yet completed it, stacking the group as much as possible is probably a good idea. Hope this helps, and good luck!
My guild doesn't venture into ZA much but we seem to have hit a brickwall with Akil'zon.
How do people deal with the storm? Do you bunch up before it occurs to reduce damage taken or as soon as the storm actually occurs to avoid being hit by static disruption and it chaining?
We're currently bunching up just before the bigwigs cooldown timer on the storm gets to zero and if we're lucky the times are accurate and we survive. If it's early, people just get pwnt by the storm and if it's late we lose a few people from a static disruption occuring and then an inevitable wipe. Is this the risk you have to take?
I thought I'd come ask for other people who find this encounter no problem what their opinion was. I'm fairly sure that we should just be waiting for the storm and reacting to it quickly rather than being proactive and getting owned by static disruption. Am I right in thinking this?
My guild doesn't venture into ZA much but we seem to have hit a brickwall with Akil'zon.
How do people deal with the storm? Do you bunch up before it occurs to reduce damage taken or as soon as the storm actually occurs to avoid being hit by static disruption and it chaining?
We're currently bunching up just before the bigwigs cooldown timer on the storm gets to zero and if we're lucky the times are accurate and we survive. If it's early, people just get pwnt by the storm and if it's late we lose a few people from a static disruption occuring and then an inevitable wipe. Is this the risk you have to take?
My raid leaders are convinced so and I thought I'd come ask for other people who find this encounter no problem what their opinion was. I'm fairly sure that we should just be waiting for the storm and reacting to it quickly rather than being proactive and getting owned by static disruption. Am I right in thinking this?
We usually have people stand around the raised area where he's tanked and move after the storm occurs instead of trying to pre-empt it. I've had mixed results with the timer's accuracy and as you said, causing a scenario where the entire raid eats a static disruption is a lot more harmful than having people not react to the storm quickly enough. The positioning ensures the disruptions only a portion of the raid at a time and guarantees everyone will be in close enough proximity to whoever gets lifted to minimize the damage taken from any stragglers who don't react quickly.
The AoE on Static Disruption is 12 yards, so that should be your minimum range for spreading out. 2 ranged getting hit with it won't be the end of the world, but the entire raid taking one (while some people have debuffs up) is a problem; taking two - a possibility with the Electrical Storm's variable cooldown - means people will die.
Given this, we found it a lot easier to spread out loosely and watch for the storm to run under it. Worst case scenario is that 1-2 people take 1-2 ticks of lightning, which is much easier to heal through than a raidwide Static Disruption bomb.
My guild doesn't venture into ZA much but we seem to have hit a brickwall with Akil'zon.
How do people deal with the storm? Do you bunch up before it occurs to reduce damage taken or as soon as the storm actually occurs to avoid being hit by static disruption and it chaining?
We're currently bunching up just before the bigwigs cooldown timer on the storm gets to zero and if we're lucky the times are accurate and we survive. If it's early, people just get pwnt by the storm and if it's late we lose a few people from a static disruption occuring and then an inevitable wipe. Is this the risk you have to take?
I thought I'd come ask for other people who find this encounter no problem what their opinion was. I'm fairly sure that we should just be waiting for the storm and reacting to it quickly rather than being proactive and getting owned by static disruption. Am I right in thinking this?
I think the best way to counter it is to not overcomplicate it.
What we do is that boss will be positioned in the middle of the raised square on the ground and all melee go in dps'ing. I tell the ranged people and healers to stand and spread out at the EDGE of the square on the ground everytime we go there. That ensures that whoever gets the storm, is not too far away from the rest. As soon as storm occurs, everyone has an easy time to move without any real damage on raid happening.
As long as the timed run is being discussed in such detail, could someone offer some specific pointers for shaving a few minutes off the run time? We run 1.5 tanks (1 prot warrior, 1 feral druid), 3 healers, and 5 DPS in T5 gear or so, and the best we have been able to manage was killing 3 bosses with about 3 minutes left on the timer. Some specific questions:
1) Assuming Eagle -> Bear -> Dragonhawk -> Lynx kill order, what are some typical benchmarks (minutes remaining) after each kill?
2) What is the best way to minimize time lost to looting items/badges and opening bonus chests? Should we talk to the NPC then leave area and open all chests after timer is over? Or should we not free any NPCs while on the timer?
3) How feasible is tanking all the elite warrior-type mobs during the Eagle gauntlet and just aoeing them down as we aoe birds?
4) What is the fastest path to clear to Dragonhawk, through the hut area or the egg area?
5) How do you minimize time spent on the Dragonhawk boss? How many birds do you let hatch each time? If we don't hatch enough, is the final zerg reliably survivable assuming your casters/healers are sufficiently overgeared? (I recall one kill where we hatched maybe 12 birds total before the final zerg, then somehow managed to down them all at the end with bop/pain supression/battle rezzes on our AOE and tab SWP from the shadow priest, but I'm not sure whether this would be repeatable.)
For reference, we run with a T6-equipped prot paladin & myself (mostly T6 tanking) fury warrior. + 3 healers and 5 DPS
1) We pull the eagle with ~17 mins remaining on the first timer. Kill him quickly and move to bear. The next timer I recall is ~26-28 mins left after killing the bear. ~22-23 mins on dragonhawk pull, ~18-19 mins after dragonhawk kill. I'll explain the dragonhawk kill in point #5.
2) This has been said before. Ignore chests until the timer is over.
3) On the eagle trash we all mount up and the prot paladin leads the charge. He pulls the first 6 elite static mobs and begins AE tanking while the DPS goes nuts. When those are dying, he pulls the last 2 static elites and the mini boss (I don't recall the name).
4) The fastest dragonhawk clear for us hugs the left wall.
5) On the dragonhawk boss I (fury + T6 tanking gear) tank the boss and the protection paladin (T6 prot gear) tanks all of the adds. When the first 2 scouts come, we kill one and let one go. We let the hatcher break all of the eggs on one side, then AOE. Then we let the hatcher move to the other side to open the remaining eggs and AOE that side. The paladin usually bubbles off the fire debuff inbetween the two AEs. This strategy lets you kill the dragonhawk boss very quickly, but obviously requires a highly geared protection paladin.
Yes they stay alive and you can release them at any time (unless the instance soft resets)
Just for extra insurance/confirmation: Even if you fail?
(I ask this because there was no direct quoting of any post, and while it seemed pretty obvious, I would rather be safe than sorry -- getting close on the third chest, and would hate to lose two chests)
Just for extra insurance/confirmation: Even if you fail?
(I ask this because there was no direct quoting of any post, and while it seemed pretty obvious, I would rather be safe than sorry -- getting close on the third chest, and would hate to lose two chests)
Yes. Even if you fail to get all the timers you can go back and talk to the NPCs by the bosses you killed within the timed limit after you are done.
1) We pull the eagle with ~17 mins remaining on the first timer. Kill him quickly and move to bear. The next timer I recall is ~26-28 mins left after killing the bear. ~22-23 mins on dragonhawk pull, ~18-19 mins after dragonhawk kill. I'll explain the dragonhawk kill in point #5.
I must be missing something. How do you do the dragonhawk trash in 5 mins? You said hugging the left wall which I guess means that you kill three packs of guardians and flame casters plus one dragonhawk pack? We must really suck since that takes like 10-15 mins for us.
Dragonhawk has amazingly little trash as long as you dont let any scouts reach any drums. We havent actually managed that flawlessly yet, and thus, are still stuck at two chests, but killing guardian/flamecaster packs is very fast if you do it right. The key is the flamecaster selfbuff. There are two ways to use this.
The first, obvious, one is to have a mage spellsteal it, and become god for the duration of the steal. - 1.5 second pyroblasts or ubar arcane missile spam will help burn down a pack amazingly fast - The second method is to have a shadowpriest, or a holy priest with spellhit gear MC the flamecaster and use it to kill the rest of the pack. If there are two flamecasters, its vital that the priest shield and the other caster is focusfired and kept dispelled and stunned so that the barrage doesnt wreck the MC channel.
I must be missing something. How do you do the dragonhawk trash in 5 mins? You said hugging the left wall which I guess means that you kill three packs of guardians and flame casters plus one dragonhawk pack? We must really suck since that takes like 10-15 mins for us.
The key is moving quickly and being overgeared. Immediately after the bear dies we are mounting up and running over there. Then our druid roots and ranged dps kills the scout and we start moving. We very rarely have a scout respawn on us, and we skip the avoidable Hunter+2dragonhawk pack that patrols near the ramp.
I looked back at my WWS logs for more accurate times. Our time between Bear Boss death -> Dragonhawk boss pull is just over 6 minutes.
- Log #1
- Log #2
12/05/07, 6:56 PM
).
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