Twinking tricks/Leveling alts - Page 70

Lieska · 06/30/09, 5:26 AM

Admittedly it's been a very long time since I levelled my rogue but I believe where it differs from casters in particular is that it's considerably more effective sticking to mobs a bit below your level, unless you're heavily twinked. That way you kill quickly and take little damage and can just move from mob to mob with no downtime. Other classes need to regain mana anyway so health loss is irrelevant, or they have some form of self healing, making the higher experience gain per mob worth it for them.

sarf · 06/30/09, 7:00 AM

Originally Posted by Lieska

Admittedly it's been a very long time since I levelled my rogue but I believe where it differs from casters in particular is that it's considerably more effective sticking to mobs a bit below your level, unless you're heavily twinked. That way you kill quickly and take little damage and can just move from mob to mob with no downtime. Other classes need to regain mana anyway so health loss is irrelevant, or they have some form of self healing, making the higher experience gain per mob worth it for them.

There is also the thing with Rogues - any weapon wielder really - often not being at weapon skill cap, which will lead to less efficiency on equal-level mobs. I am unsure if you gain hit chance versus lower-level mobs, but if you do, then it is also a clear win.

Soul · 06/30/09, 1:48 PM

Weapon skill is checked against target defense and, in PvE, most mobs have weapon and defense skills five times their level (like you can). So, versus lower level mobs, you crit more and they dodge and parry less often. Versus higher level mobs, you crit less, they avoid more of your attacks and, on top of that, they reduce more damage through the glancing blows mechanic. Also, you avoid fewer attacks and get crit more often because their weapon skill is higher than your defense.

So, yeah, this applies to all classes that fight in melee. At least you don't get crushed by mobs one level above you any more like in the good old days.

Stylpe · 07/05/09, 7:16 AM

I've been meaning to level up one character of each class to 80, and I'm trying to pick the best heirlooms for this, in a way that I don't have to run heroics for the rest of my life for badges. I.e. the smallest set of heirlooms that are useful to every class.

So far I've decided to get the caster cloth shoulders (which can be used by priest, warlock and mage) and the melee leather shoulders (which can be used by all the others), which covers the shoulder slot for all classes. I'll do the same thing for the chestpieces when 3.2 is out.

What I can't decide on is the weapons. There's lots of info around on what's the best choice for each class, but I'd end up having to buy every weapon available. I was hoping to narrow it down to two or maybe three weapons. Can you help me out?

sarf · 07/05/09, 9:12 AM

Originally Posted by Stylpe

I've been meaning to level up one character of each class to 80, and I'm trying to pick the best heirlooms for this, in a way that I don't have to run heroics for the rest of my life for badges. I.e. the smallest set of heirlooms that are useful to every class.

So far I've decided to get the caster cloth shoulders (which can be used by priest, warlock and mage) and the melee leather shoulders (which can be used by all the others), which covers the shoulder slot for all classes. I'll do the same thing for the chestpieces when 3.2 is out.

What I can't decide on is the weapons. There's lots of info around on what's the best choice for each class, but I'd end up having to buy every weapon available. I was hoping to narrow it down to two or maybe three weapons. Can you help me out?

I would go for 1H sword, 2H axe, caster 2H. That should cover all classes and most specs - as long as you don't mind levelling a Moonkin Druid. It may get a bit iffy on a Rogue, but as long as you keep the 1H sword in the mainhand, you can have pretty much anything else in the offhand. Do note that you can avoid too much Heroism farming by getting a few PvP shards by doing dungeons while your faction holds WG, which allows you to get a decent heirloom item (not optimized for levelling/PvE, but will be better than 99% of the gear you'll see until level 80).

Stylpe · 07/05/09, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by sarf

I would go for 1H sword, 2H axe, caster 2H. That should cover all classes and most specs - as long as you don't mind levelling a Moonkin Druid. It may get a bit iffy on a Rogue, but as long as you keep the 1H sword in the mainhand, you can have pretty much anything else in the offhand. Do note that you can avoid too much Heroism farming by getting a few PvP shards by doing dungeons while your faction holds WG, which allows you to get a decent heirloom item (not optimized for levelling/PvE, but will be better than 99% of the gear you'll see until level 80).

Thanks for the reply

I actually have a lot of WG shards already, now that I think of it. I dismissed the idea at first, seeing as one of the stats on the weapon would be wasted on resilience, but I've realized after a bit more reading that the most important part of the weapon is the damage.

So if we redefine the limits to both pve and pvp heirloom weapons, and up to four total? I guess a good fourth choice would be a dagger, to help both druid and rogue?

Hm, maybe I'll just try to make a list:
Using Class proficiencies - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft and List of Available Heirlooms - World of Warcraft | 60 Frames per Second

PVE:
Dagger: Maybe, good for rogue and druid
2H Axe: Maybe
Bow: Maybe, but only useful for Hunter. Would be my last purchase.
1H Mace (Caster): NO, the staff is better for casters
Staff (Caster): YES, all three clothies can use and benefit from it
1H Sword: Maybe

PVP:
1H Sword: Maybe I've read that this is good because of the proc
Staff(Caster): NO, PvE is better
2H Sword: NO, PvE Axe is better
Dagger: NO, PvE is much better
1H Mace(Caster): NO, PvE is better
Gun: Maybe, this is only useful to hunters, so might go with this to balance Heroism-budget

By Class:
Death Knight: 2H Axe. I've heard you're better off with regular greens and blues, as heirloom can't be runed, but the runes don't look that good to me...
Druid: Dagger (don't like the idea of mana breaks while leveling, but the staff is also usable)
Hunter: Bow or Gun, can also use any melee weapon, but not important
Mage: Staff.
Paladin: 2H Axe.
Priest: Staff.
Rogue: Dagger and 1H Sword, or maybe both 1H swords or both daggers? He's at 35, so Mutilate isn't available yet
Shaman: At level 50ish, so should dual-wield. So possibly dagger?
Warlock: Staff.
Warrior: Already at level 80. But would've used 2H Axe.

So, this leaves me with: 3 classes for the staff, 2 (3?) for the Dagger (x2?), 2 for the 2H Axe (would've been 3, also +1 for hunter), 1 for a 1H sword (x2?), and 1 for a ranged weapon.

What do you think? Which dagger(s) and sword(s) would you pick?

• Polynices · 07/05/09, 1:01 PM

Originally Posted by Stylpe

Bow: Maybe, but only useful for Hunter. Would be my last purchase.

It's a minor point, but the bow is also a good range slot item for your rogue and warrior.

Also, if you get a sword and a dagger for the rogue and put +15 agility on both, they'll work pretty darn well for your hunter.

Completely agree with the leather melee shoulders, they're fine for all the non-clothies while leveling.

Can you tell what two classes I've been leveling with heirlooms?

KamPa · 07/05/09, 4:26 PM

For Shaman, you could just get Staff + Cloth shoulders and level as Elemental. Now, you do lose a shield slot, but it's completely irrelevant against regular mobs. Both caster trinkets are also superior to melee ones, as haste isn't such great levelling stat, and about the only melee class that can't heal itself are warriors(well, not quite true, but...) - so you would take care of 4 gear slots, instead of just 2.

Talgog · 07/05/09, 4:42 PM

Originally Posted by Stylpe

Death Knight: 2H Axe. I've heard you're better off with regular greens and blues, as heirloom can't be runed, but the runes don't look that good to me...

There is no comparison to Rune of the Fallen Crusader in the game for regular use. Once your DK hits 70, get it. Any new weapon you get, forge it.

The heirloom weapon is also not particularly important for the death knight. They start at 58 (well, leave the opening quests at 57-58) and are tremendously overpowered with a suit of Tier 2 gear and their own perfectly itemized blue weapon. That blue weapon will last them to Nagrand where they can get Ring of Blood/Halaani Claymore, which will last them to Northrend.

Further, Death Knights have no cost, opportunity or otherwise, in bringing a new weapon up to speed. They Death Gate to Acherus, forge their weapon, then hearth back. There's just not a lot of logic in using a heirloom weapon for a DK.

EDIT: On tips...

The absolute best talent points you will spend on an early rogue in time saved are 2/3 MoD. That might seem counter-intuitive with the focus on points that "help you kill stuff." But that's before you realize you've eliminated almost all unwanted destealths and resulting swift deaths.

Lieska · 07/05/09, 5:04 PM

I would definitely go for the sword and not the dagger if it comes down to a choice between the two. For druids it's just a stats sink and you'll do much better with a sword than a dagger MH as a low level rogue. As for bow, it's very nice but leveling as a BM hunter you can pretty much wear any old green and still be insanely effective.

Moof · 07/06/09, 1:57 AM

I just recently levelled a rogue to 80 using heirloom weapons and also invested in dual spec early on to test different levelling builds.

I generally found that a subtlety spec was the most efficient. I definitely agree with Talgog and that MoD is incredibly effective while levelling as it results in less deaths and fast quest completion in regards to the "go to X and fetch me Y" quests. Killing things is incredibly efficient with CS, Hemox2, Evis often being enough to kill a mob and the fact they're stunned the whole duration means you take zero damage and thus have less downtime. Also the lower CD on Vanish means you can pretty much use it any time things get sticky.

With regards to weapons, the 1H sword in the MH is definitely the way to go, at least until you can get both muti AND the subtlety talents, which won't be until the 60s. I'd recommend the heirloom dagger in the OH to get more damage from the hemo debuff.

When I switched to muti, I used the WG shard dagger as my OH. However, [Balanced Heartseeker] isn't unique, so it's entirely possible to use two for higher muti damage. I found Remorseless Attacks and Improved Ambush worked quite nicely together to virtually guarantee an ambush crit on every mob. Followed by a muti and 5CP evis, mobs fell flat very quickly.

However, the main draw back of the subt spec is being caught by a mob out of stealth without vanish means dps is quite low. Plus the fact that you most likely won't be hit capped and if mobs aren't stunned you will be facing lots of dodges and parries.

atua · 07/07/09, 6:50 AM

Originally Posted by Lieska

I would definitely go for the sword and not the dagger if it comes down to a choice between the two. For druids it's just a stats sink and you'll do much better with a sword than a dagger MH as a low level rogue.

Except Druids can't use swords.

KamPa · 07/07/09, 8:07 AM

A somewhat different question - do shoulders affect lvl80 exp->gold conversion?
Also, was Steady Shot issue with BoA bow fixed? One of reason I didn't buy it in the past and wasn't really following it.

Flouyd · 07/07/09, 8:15 AM

Originally Posted by KamPa

A somewhat different question - do shoulders affect lvl80 exp->gold conversion?
Also, was Steady Shot issue with BoA bow fixed? One of reason I didn't buy it in the past and wasn't really following it.

The Steady Shot problem was solved some time ago

Prinsesa · 07/07/09, 8:34 AM

I wouldn't really recommend leveling as a Moonkin just because Feral doesn't have an heirloom weapon. I tried using the heirloom staff and it just isn't worth the downtime.

Instead, remember that a Feral's natural claw DPS will keep scaling up until level 55, which is only 3 levels away from actual Feral Staves/Maces opening up in Outland. By 65 you'll have the Ring of Blood staff until Northrend, various Northrend quest staves until 75, then the Ampitheatre of Blood polearm until 80.

Death Knight: no weapon needed
Druid: no weapon needed

Hunter: Heirloom Bow, and can use Heirloom Sword/Dagger as a stat-stick

Mage: Heirloom Staff
Priest: Heirloom Staff

Paladin: Heirloom Axe
Warrior: Heirloom Axe
Shaman: Heirloom Axe*

Rogue: Heirloom Sword/Dagger

Warlock: Heirloom Staff

*This is another sticking point. The Axe is definitely your weapon of choice until level 40 when you get the dual-wielding talent. I'm not experienced enough with a Shaman to conclude if the Axe's DPS makes it better than DWing with quested weapons, but either way it's not going to impact the number of Heirloom weapons you'll have to get if you're already getting the Axe for the Paladin and the Warrior anyway.

That being said, the Shaman is probably also a case of the Feral, in that Enhancement is still faster than Elemental even if you don't use the Axe.