Juli

Why would it be? The assumption that defends publishing exploits is that either A) Blizzard is incapable of prioritizing bug/exploit fixes and this will get a super-important issue pushed to the top of the queue or B) Blizzard will not take action unless you increase the severity of the issue due to development cost etc. I believe A is completely off-base and B is a bit tinfoilhat-ish.

The best thing you can do is report it via email, the bug report forums (with non-specific steps to reproduce if it is severe - you can just request that they provide an email address to send specifics to them if they need them), or submit a GM ticket. Or all of the above. I personally would only submit a GM ticket if I didn't care about it getting fixed much, but GMs seem to have gotten a bit better in my last few experiences with them, compared to a year ago.

The only reason to "go public" is so you can get e-famous.

This was commonplace in older games, but Blizzard has EXTREMELY strict policies about this kind of thing, probably because many of the higher ups have seen it first hand. I'm not saying it can't happen, but I believe you face immediate termination if you get busted. I don't think many people are dumb enough to sacrifice their professional reputation and salary to give their buddy a glowing sword in a video game.

 

Davidson

If something is not being exploited heavily, what incentive does Blizzard have to hotfix it? Have you ever heard of any large exploit in any game which was hotfixed before tons of people started abusing it? It's not about prioritizing bug fixes, they can probably fix this stuff VERY quickly. The delay is when they actually go live, a hotfix is non-trivial, so they would much rather wait until a content patch. The only way to get a hotfix is a game breaking issue, which almost always requires people to be abusing it in large numbers.

 

• mutagen

While the issue is hotly debated, publising exploits seems to be the prevailing opinion in the computer security industry. Responsible security researchers notify the software author privately, cooperate to reproduce the bug/exploit and allow for a reasonable amount of time for a patch to be released before going public with the exploit. Some are more aggressive, publishing exploits before the software is patched or simply letting the published exploit be the notification. Others seek to suppress any notification, preferring that exploits get fixed quietly through the normal update cycle.

Crypto-Gram: November 15, 2001

 

Osse

Players will always exploit the in game bugs and they will always be up for a few hours / days depending on how game breaking they are. Next time a similar bug to rampage stacking happens and Blizzard decides to perma-ban all accounts that used it I'm sure the amount of people using any kind of exploits would drop a lot.

It was a lot of fun to fly in instances and Azeroth with epic gryphon as a hunter for a few weeks. Never got any warning or ban for it either.

http://i7.tinypic.com/6kirk1s.jpg

 

Wunlastri

They need to say something other than account sharing. Because I'll be damned if my friends can't toy around with my characters or make a new one on a different server. And I know that isn't what they mean.

Oh, and EJ is such a gateway drug. Hurrah, you made me a good hunter. Now I am ata work and I can't stop thinking about model editing and looking up other 'sploits when I get home. Ah well, I never was good at being a model anything (customer, guildie, raider) anyways.

 

Juli

Hotfixes are only required when it is a severe issue, as you said. It should be fairly obvious that properly developing and testing multiple hotfixes generates more overhead and reduces productivity in the long run than being able to release it all in a single patch. Pushing for everything to be hotfixed just because it CAN be is not prudent. And what about when it's something really bad and they can't develop a hotfix or react fast enough and we get to suffer through server rollbacks like early in the game's life?

It just seems like the most responsible thing to do is to notify privately, then maybe publish after they've had a reasonable amount of time to do something about it. Besides, if you follow Xi's philosophy, the less people that know about it, the longer you get to abuse it for personal gain without penalty.

 

Davidson

If you want to gain from the exploit, then not saying anything to anyone (bar mabe a few close friends) is definitely the way to go. If you want the exploit to get fixed, it really has to get out in the open.

There arn't many "game breaking" exploits which actually require a hotfix. What if someone figured out how to dupe items again, should a few people essentially be allowed to dupe without repercussion for days or weeks? It won't be fixed faster than that unless you get people to use it.

 

Disarbadia

This is one thing that bothers me alot, my friends and I use each others characters frequently when we need to run an alt through an instance or whatever and they can't be on. I'll just use a friends toon and run myself.

As for other exploitations, I have friends who bot, I'm mildly impressed by how effective it can be for those who use it. While I'm surprised no one I know has been banned (I know someone who ran around Netherstorm for weeks in the same spot and never got caught).

Exploits don't really bother me too much - exceptions being blatant hacks such at stat enhancers that make your character unkillable and they can just roll up and one shot me with a punch.

 

Balkoth

What about boss exploits? Shade is currently bugged so that he runs straight to Akama, and there's obviously nothing you can do to stop this except killing him (unless your raid purposefully wipes and tried to reset it so it's unbugged?). The Archimonde tree branch, though, is an example of using a "creative game mechanic" that seemed idiotic to me. Technically, you're using the environment but everyone knew it wasn't supposed to be used and it was certainly exploitative. So what *is* an exploit when it comes to a boss? Purposefully dragging a mob to a location where you know he'll bug out or something similar (similar to the Mechano Lord in Heroic Mechanar)?

 

Lookit

The whole point of reporting a bug instead of going public with it... is that it won't become public. So no, you wouldn't have "heard" of it.

Actually, that *is* exactly what they mean. In the same way that a movie theater doesn't like you purchasing a ticket and then letting in your friend through the back door, Blizzard doesn't appreciate it when you purchase an account and then let your friend use it too. That's simply one less subscriber for them.

 

Disarbadia

But couldn't one argue that letting a friend use your epic 70 [Insert class here] be a much better incentive to start their own account to play on than starting a fresh level 1 on a trial account and being capped at level 20, one profession, etc?

I know that if I played on some geared out 60 when I first started WoW, it would have made me much more excited for starting my own account than a level 1 with no skills.

 

Lookit

Why would one bother arguing that when Blizzard has made their feelings on the matter so crystal clear? I think that watching your friend play his epic'd out 70 would be a good enough incentive to get the game.

 

Disarbadia

Because to me, and others I'm sure, its a completely asinine rule. Using a different example, whats the problem with me using my friends character to run an alt through an instance myself? I'm playing both characters at the same time, both accounts are being paid for, so in those respects Blizz is happy, but technically its sharing accounts since I'm the "owner" (Doesn't Blizz actually "own" the accounts?) of only one, but the other is my friends.

I see that the same way I see multi-boxing - which is fine by Blizzard.

 

Hildegard

Definetly something I would like to include. Could you give me some details on that ?

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde

http://forscherliga.wikia.com/wiki/Hildegard

 

Wunlastri

I'd like to point a third group of rulebreakers. Those who do it out of spite for stupid rules.

Oh sure, it's an economically sound rule. But socially it just screams 'ignore me. Not only that, directly go against me.' Because people have a natural response to do what they are told not to.

This leads to the ever present us vs them mechanic of consumers and vendors.

 

Lookit

Actually it's not the same thing as multi-boxing from Blizzard's perspective.

You using a friend's account to run yourself through an instance is account sharing and against the ToS.

You buying a second account for your own use and using that to multi-box is not account sharing. Your friend would still have his account.

The first example results in 2 subscriptions for Blizzard, while the second results in 3.

The other issue allowing account sharing would create for Blizzard is what happens when they ban someone for using a speedhack and then the account owner says "You can't ban me, it was my friend who did it! I would never do that!"

You are simply going to have a hard time convincing Blizzard (and me as well) that they should make any changes to their account sharing policy.

 

Benegesserit

A new account costs a LOT more than $25. You forgot WoW vanilla and WoW TBC licenses. $25 is worth an exploit if it saves you a lot of time. 80+ isn't, though that could vary depending on people's means.

 

Disarbadia

While using my friends character to run myself through an instance may be against the ToS technically, its absolutely no different than him running me himself (The only time I need to resort to this is when he isn't online and I need something ran for me), and other than a GM or whoever looking and saying "Hey, that guy is logged in from the same IP as that guy and they're both in RFD!" it isn't different at all than us playing seperately.

Besides, unless whoever is tasked with looking into those suspected of account sharing, they would have to be concerned enough to look and see that both accounts have seperate owner names, and I doubt it would get to that point anyhow.

Funny that you mention that, reminded me of the time I let a friend use my account on Diablo 2 and he used some shady maphack and got me banned. Luckily this led to me picking up WoW, so it was a blessing (Curse?).

I don't think anyone would be retarded enough (Though I'd probably be wrong) to argue they shouldn't be banned for hacks their friend used while on their account. I know that when it happened to me the first thing I thought is "Well, thats it, I'm fucked, no helping me now." as I proceeded to scream at my buddy for being a moron.

 

Taiowa

On somebody wanting to maintain a master leet exploitz post: do we really need this kind of Dr Twister bullshit on EJ?

On account sharing: irresponsible account sharing leads to customer service calls ("my little brother deleted my character, restore please" etc.). Customer service calls are expensive. Many policies that, on first blush, seem "moralistic" are primarily in place to reduce CS burden. Gold selling, purchased powerlevelling, all that leads to increased CS calls. That's the foremost reason why they're against the rules.

 

Lookit

You're getting your issues jumbled up.

You're right, there is nothing wrong with your friend running you through an instance. However, you logging in to his account IS against the rules, not because of what you're using it to do (whether it is to run your character through an instance or to use one of his characters in a raid or whatever) but simply because you're logging in to his account.

While it's all well and good to try and come up with situations where account sharing is "victimless", the fact remains that if Blizzard allows account sharing, then in addition to some harmless situations, they would also be allowing paid powerleveling, non-paid powerleveling (such as 3 friends who take turns grinding out BG's to get a character decked out in full honor rewards), as well as significantly reducing their number of paid subscriptions as many casual players would simply opt to share an account with a friend, sibling, etc.

 

Zifna

I don't see how they could even possibly catch account-sharers. Many of my friends and I play WoW. We frequently get together over breaks and LAN different games, including occasionally WoW. It's also pretty frequent that someone will stop by and say "Oh, hey, can I use your machine for a moment? I want to do my transmute/check an auction etc." Either of those things are perfectly fine by Blizzard, but I can't see how they'd visually appear any different than if I were to simply log into a friend's account.

 

Hildegard

This is actually the point we are discussing here. There were valid points made for this approach, but if you do think it is not useful than feel free to bring in some arguments.

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde

http://forscherliga.wikia.com/wiki/Hildegard

 

Davidson

I'm not sure they *do* catch people who share accounts..... I know a very large number of people who share accounts with 1 or more people, none of them has ever been warned or banned because of it. Maybe if you bring attention to yourself while doing it, they could look into your account and ban you for that also, but it would seem to be extremely rare.

 

• giansm

The main way they could detect account sharing is by IP logs, provided that the two IPs are geographically far enough apart. Say you and your friend both have access to each other's info, and your friend lives in a different state. Say he's logging off for the night so you decide to log onto his character in order to farm some herbs or whatever. They see your friend on his account from his house, then he logs off and proceeds to log on from your house within such a short amount of time that he could not have possibly traveled there personally. They conclude from this that you were sharing account information.

 

Eyegore

I have known people from entirely different hemispheres to regularly use each others accounts. It seems to be about as much 'against the rules' as driving 5 mph over the limit. It is not something that is really going to get you noticed, but they reserve the right to hold it against you if for some reason you are brought to their attention. If they were to actively seek out people who have shared their passwords they risk driving away what seems to be a very large percentage of their subscriber base, so that is just right out I think.

I am personally more interested by the questions raised by more serious exploits. I can not claim to have any answers, nor an opinion I would expect anyone to care about. But I am following this thread with interest and feel it has gotten a bit off the original topic.