Can you please explain to me how to clear Karazhan in 2.5 hours for a guild that isn't Tier 5/6?

Ours makes a steady pace at around 5-6 hours to clear the instance and it just seems like the time you're posting is a bit unrealistic for the people who need the badges.

Okay I'm just gonna let this one go. You clearly don't even understand the fundamental concept of an RPG. Either that or you're just being stubborn. If you want to elminate the more time and effort = more reward concept from the game you really need to find a different genre of game to play. It's at the very foundation of what makes an RPG successful.

Also people spend the most time of the game in Hyjal and BT do so because they are waiting for Sunwell and then the expansion. If Blizz said BT is all there is... No more expansions, No more new content patches, you're saying they'd keep going back to Kill Illidan every single weeK? I certainly hope that's not what you're saying. That is essentially what voluntarily capping your available content at 5 man dungeons is doing though. And please don't come back and say they are waiting for the new 5 man in 2.4 because if they are THAT casual it's doubtful they even know about it.

It has nothing to do with casuals deserve "nothing". It has to do with the fact that if you spend less time in the game it's going to take longer for you to accumulate gear on an epic level. They call it "epic", "rare", and "uncommon" because of the relative infrequency you are supposed to see people wearing it. They've practically nerfed that distinction into oblivion as it's rarer to see people in greens than blues... and epics are commonplace. And yet still you aren't happy. Seriously you might as well just head to E-Bay and buy an account since you don't want to put any work in whatsoever.

Assuming you can oneshot the bosses:
Bring a feral/dpswarrior as OT
dont stop pulling

Our clears were about 4.5 hours with no wipes and a half our break for lunch on Saturdays. Raid was basically all T4/crafted/S1/S2 gear, and with everyone being experienced at all the bosses.
Edit: I wanted to make the distinction that we were never actively trying to go fast on these raids, we just weren't wasting time.

The new guild I joined with a fresh 70 priest on the other hand takes 4 hours to get to Curator and considers that a good speed. They take 20 minute bathroom/smoke breaks every half hour though, so that might be your problem, too.

Um... we clear it on alt runs all the time with less than ideal make ups all the time. None of them are tier 5-6 geared (we're just now making headway into BT/Hyjal so needless to say while our mains have gear our alts are not geared to the teeth, no alts have been inside TK/SSC unless the we were short an absolutely necessary class for what we were doing). It's amazing how easy Kara is once you know the fights. I usually run my hunter who uses a mix of pvp gear, and tier 4 quality and now one piece of the new badge gear and the only reason I run is to get the bow and because I need badges. Generally the same for everyone else... They are looking for one or two items and badges because they feel they need them.

ETA: Maybe 2.5 is a slight exaggeration with alt runs. Typically we can begin pulling at around 8 or so and be done by 11 unless we mess around and wipe horribly on something we shouldn't or don't have a bunch of random afk issues.

Ah, and here we are once again with the casuals vs hardcore argument, and neither side understanding the other.

Can we just get this thread heaped already? It offers nothing but a fire for people to argue over.

Wait, you're accusing *me* of throwing out strawman arguments? I'm not the one accusing the opposition of wanting gear for free.

Karazhan totally obliterates heroics in terms of loot, and now it blows them away in terms of badge acquisition too. Such that it's basically just a bonus for players running Karazhan, because they're moderately difficult in blues and easy in Karazhan loot. They don't even really even give a reasonable progression path to the non-raiding crowd they ideally should serve.

If anything, they need a wide array of relatively cheap badge rewards (i.e. 25-40) for ilvl 110-115 items, and then additional badges to upgrade it to the current 128 items. Such that players in blues aren't basically slaving away for shitty drops until they can finally afford to blow 75 badges on a drastic upgrade, and then repeating the cycle.

To say nothing of at least bumping the item level up to 120-125 blues from heroic drops.

Fine with me at this point, I offered what help I could group composition wise I will gladly withdraw from the discussion.

Yeah I'm done too heap it. You're right... nothing productive is going on.

Is there an issue here that casual players can't find decent players to group with for heroics (hence the OP looking for a way to entice good players into heroics again)?

I found way back around March, on my server at least, was when a lot more mediocare players starting LFG heroics and this caused a lot of good players who had almost finished their heroic grind to stop pugging altogether. It is at a state now where the average good player will not pug a heroic, even on an alt, since they do not want to have do deal with pugs. This was made even worse by the changes to reputation which allowed honored players to do heroics.

Certainly Blizzard could do something to entice good players back into heroics. But I'm not sure they could do anything to entice them to go into heroics with PUGs.

Should put the Heroic Keys back to Revered to avoid topics like this.

And with this, the thread ends.

I'll be petitioning OMG BLIZZ to add keying back to TK/SSC as well.